Guest EricMM Report post Posted January 7, 2003 I would just like to say that for the year of 2002 two matches stand out in my mind as the best of the best for that year in America, that I saw. That would be the 3 way American Dragon/Low-Ki/Daniels from ROH's first show IIRC, and My Match of the Year 2002, Low Ki vs. American Dragon from the second ROH show. It was not a spotfest, it was simply the best wrestling match I have ever seen. And neither of the participants got farther than dark matches with no contracts. meanwhile the nWo was signed, and many many terrible unover wrestlers maintain their status due to some sort of tenure. My biggest problem with WWE is note even HHH (although there's nothing about HHH I like) it's that they are not actively trying to better their product. In their current slump, there's nothing they need more than something INTERESTING. Instead we get nothing of note at all. Why do I care less and less each show I miss? Because I'm almost 90% sure that I'm not missing ANYTHING of note, ESPECIALLY on Mondays. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted January 7, 2003 That's because so many of these ROH guys can wrestle but can't talk. You can put together shit matches, but as long as you can think up catchphrases you can be a star in the WWE. Guys like Daniels and Dragon don't get WWE contracts because the company is about movies, t-shirts, hosting Saturday Night Live, appearing at award events and political rallies... Basically anything BUT wrestling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted January 7, 2003 Daniels can talk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted January 7, 2003 Really? Okay then. Well, I wouldn't have placed any bets against the hiring team being stupid anyway, seeing some of the more recent hires. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted January 7, 2003 Even if they get hired, what in the world do you think they would do in WWE? To me they just don't really fit in, much like RVD isn't fitting in really. I am all for them signing them, but the way WWE is working right now, they really have no place being in the fed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EL DANDY~! 0 Report post Posted January 7, 2003 Unless there is a total makeover in WWE management, do not even THINK about letting the little 200-225 pounders like the ones you've mention into talks with WWE. They still got that "bigger is better" mentality and they stick all the good small people into tag teams. There ya go. RVD is with Kane because Kane is a hoss. Chris Jericho and Christian are together because they don't have anything "good to do" with Jericho. It's horrible, but we gotta live with it. Don't expect any of those indy hotshots to get called up anytime soon. If the fanbase grows in TNA this year...Vince may be in trouble...BIG trouble. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest nikowwf Report post Posted January 7, 2003 Daniels and American Dragon I have no idea why they didn't sign. Lo-Ki, I have seen twice in two dark matches, one which sucked and one which he nailed Raven in the face with a kick which seemed to piss Raven off. I understand with the injury rate being so high, that they wouldn't want him. niko Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Spaceman Spiff Report post Posted January 7, 2003 So............I take it your not too jazzed about the impending debut of Nathan Jones, then... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Sandman9000 Report post Posted January 7, 2003 Wasn't there also something about how the Weeee hates the strong style of wrestling, which Low-Ki and AmDrag excel in? It wouldn't surprise me at all, since big ol' hosses can't work strong style, or any style besides slowly punching and growling. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BoboBrazil Report post Posted January 7, 2003 Vince McMahon has been telling wrestlers to cut-back on high-risk moves with little payoff. Due to the unheard of amount of injuries WWE has been forced to work through in 2002, McMahon has been informing the roster to use more holds and wrestling moves rather than high-risks. While he hasn't completely ruled out the use of high-risks, he wants them to be shortened up a bit in hopes of making them mean more when they're done, as well as protect some of his key-players. pwtorch.com newsletter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted January 7, 2003 I've seen a ROH comp tape and that makes me an expert... or something. Daniels works your basic WWE style with a bunch of spots he puts in every match regardless of what his opponent is doing for the most part. And while he has good entrance attire, he doesn't really make a connection with the fans while he's in the ring and basically looks like anyone else at that point. He's very crisp though, which is a good thing. American Dragon is way good, but only in the matworking kind of way with a swandive headbutt and some forearms thrown in for good measure. He's solid yet unspectacular. Low Ki is kind of odd. He can whup all kinds of ass for short streaches but he sort of loses focus in longer matches at what he's supposed to be doing. Kicks look good and he has a bunch of good moves that wouldn't have to be seriously altered to get him WWE-ized. His voice rules. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted January 7, 2003 Daniels is going to some camp where they give guys a look over. I'da rather see guys like CM Punk, Colt Cabana, and Chris Hero make it. American Dragon just bores me...no one wants to see 40 minutes of submissions...go ahead and call it great matwork, but he's boring Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted January 7, 2003 Dragon would make a better fit than Ki. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rob Edwards Report post Posted January 7, 2003 In short they're small and don't have the look and Daniels excepted (someone must think he doesn't know how to work) they are lacking charisma, Spanky got picked up after all so Vince does pay attention to ROH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted January 7, 2003 Vince had Spanky before, I'm sure he's kept track of all his former development guys (or someone does). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EL DANDY~! 0 Report post Posted January 7, 2003 Vince McMahon has been telling wrestlers to cut-back on high-risk moves with little payoff. Due to the unheard of amount of injuries WWE has been forced to work through in 2002, McMahon has been informing the roster to use more holds and wrestling moves rather than high-risks. While he hasn't completely ruled out the use of high-risks, he wants them to be shortened up a bit in hopes of making them mean more when they're done, as well as protect some of his key-players. pwtorch.com newsletter I take it Vince has never watched puroresu, where in pretty much every match there is a big time high risk taken, and the wrestlers are TRAINED to protect against such high risks. The reason why there are so many injuries is because most of the wrestlers today have been TRAINED to not take such high risks. If you tell a wrestler to stop wrestling like they've been tought, that's like telling a basketball player not to shoot at all, or for a baseball player to try and hit a fastball with his leg. Vince has made the mistake of saying that only wrestlers being brought up through HIS system are worth a damn. He needs to let the people who have their own unique style wrestle their own unique style. Trying to convert all to one style is ludicrous if you have rosters FULL of distinctive styles. Rey Mysterio, Rob Van Dam, Chris Benoit (who I think has hurt the most as he's only hit the Dragon Suplex twice and the Wildbomb ONCE in his three years in the WWE), Eddie Guerrero, and many others whose special talents have either been relinquished or lessened. Vince needs to trust his wrestlers. Remember the match between RVD and Benoit at SS in August? Benoit took EVERY SHOT BY RVD LIKE A MAN. And he didn't complain. To all the WWE wrestlers, I quote my favorite reviewers ever: "Be all the dick you can...not the puss." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Hamburglar Report post Posted January 7, 2003 Yes, because the likes of Kobashi, Kawada, Mutoh and Dynamite Kid are in such wonderful shape now. Was Kobashi trained to end up having holes in his legs? Long-term crippling injuries are not nice. And I really don't understand the love for Dragon-Ki. I still just don't see any connection between the first twenty minutes and the second twenty minutes. They could be separate matches, there's no build or correlation from the mat work. I like mat work fine and dandy, but twenty minutes of matwork turning into people kicking out of top rope Ki Krushers is just not easy to take credibly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Human Fly Report post Posted January 7, 2003 Spanky probably got picked up because HBK put in a good word for him. I expect other HBK trainees to get a look soon. Just a hunch. Other then that I would be surprised to see any of the above guys picked up. The WWF is going back to the late 80's early 90's with it's wrestlers. The bigger the better. Think of who is getting pushed right now. Think of what's on tv. We've got arm wrestling and posedowns again! On Smackdown guys are being given a better shot to work, but they were all passed up for the likes of Albert and Big Show. Chances were better a few years ago for those guys to get picked up because Vince could turn on WCW and ECW and see the small guys tearing it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted January 8, 2003 I've never seen Daniels wrestle before, but from what I am hearing he must be pretty good. Low Ki wrestled a dark match when I was at a Raw I believe. I don't remember when, but I remember seeing him. Plus, I've seen him wrestling for NWA. He is pretty good, so I don't know why Vince didn't sign him. Oh ya, he can do something wrestle. Vince must not be fond of wrestlers, just big ass hosses like Nathan Jones. I've never seen Jones wrestle, or even a picture of him. So I am going to be optimstic about him until I see him. If he sucks, then I'll bash him. If he doesn't suck, then I won't bash him. Simple as that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Ravenbomb Report post Posted January 8, 2003 Low-Ki vs. Daniels > Low-Ki vs. AmDragon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted January 8, 2003 Yes, because the likes of Kobashi, Kawada, Mutoh and Dynamite Kid are in such wonderful shape now. Was Kobashi trained to end up having holes in his legs? Long-term crippling injuries are not nice. And I really don't understand the love for Dragon-Ki. I still just don't see any connection between the first twenty minutes and the second twenty minutes. They could be separate matches, there's no build or correlation from the mat work. I like mat work fine and dandy, but twenty minutes of matwork turning into people kicking out of top rope Ki Krushers is just not easy to take credibly. I think people like this pair because it is so different than basic WWE style match, as for the crediblity of the match not making any sense after finisher kickouts, well just how diff is this from Angle vs Benoit with the Ankle Lock getting reversed alot. If they had Iron Man matches, I bet the 30 minutes of mat work and kicks would pop the crowd more than once. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Brian Report post Posted January 8, 2003 I really don't understand the love for Dragon-Ki. I still just don't see any connection between the first twenty minutes and the second twenty minutes. They could be separate matches, there's no build or correlation from the mat work. I like mat work fine and dandy, but twenty minutes of matwork turning into people kicking out of top rope Ki Krushers is just not easy to take credibly. Because the mat work generally tells a story of it's own. The stories told within of those matches is amazing. Both guys are amazingly stiff and have a firm grasp of working bits of shoot style (or at least Dragon does). Simplest way to put it, Lo Ki brings the stiff strikes while American Dragon busts out the submissions and the mat work. And then the way they tend to incorporate all that into the latter parts of the match is awesome, and the build to all the nearfalls (despite some being overdone) is great. Lots of great submissions with tight variants mixed in. Unfortunately, I only own two matches (I've seen a few more via net) so I'll rant on those in short. At the Super Eight 2001, Dragon was working the knee to take the kicks out of the game and even dropped some of his patented arm submissions that he knew that they would not get the victory and went back to working the leg. See, Dragon worked the leg but abandoned the arm as a whole so this became a problem and he couldn't effectively lock up the arm. Anbd how he had scouted Ki and knew to break up the kick combo (dragon screw) and the handspring (Dragon suplex). All the selling was awesome. At ROH, they do the mat work with Am Drag breaking out the mat work and Ki trying to match him but finding his way to work in the strikes as his only way to get out. This time, Dragons working everything but focusing in on the neck as it progresses, even on the mat, to soften up for the cattle mutilation. Cattle Mutilation with a chinlock, to keep Ki in and put even more pressure on the neck was just a great way to end it. I hope this helps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Youth N Asia Report post Posted January 8, 2003 I've never seen Jones wrestle, or even a picture of him. So I am going to be optimstic about him until I see him. If he sucks, then I'll bash him. If he doesn't suck, then I won't bash him. Simple as that. Jones isn't very good...but he's freakishly huge Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Sandman9000 Report post Posted January 8, 2003 I've never seen Jones wrestle, or even a picture of him. So I am going to be optimstic about him until I see him. If he sucks, then I'll bash him. If he doesn't suck, then I won't bash him. Simple as that. Jones isn't very good...but he's freakishly huge Which is good enough to get them a push in the Weeeeee any day of the week. Small guy: pushed for a week? at most? Big guy: pushed, and pushed, and pushed, and pushed, and pushed... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cynicalprofit Report post Posted January 8, 2003 Ya know, if you were to sign them, all 3 would cost less than Hogan alone, let them wrestle only eachother, you could still make a mint with it off a PPV buyrate. I mean they would probably at least get you an addition to what NWA-TNA is drawing. And if they do make money and someone WANTED to work with them, let them. I mean Kurt would probably want to, same with Benoit, Hell low-ki and tajiri already went at it once before, maybe they want to do it again. And since guys are working with who they want, morale might actually improve. Hey wwe or wwf or whatever the name is, call me, Ill get your product back on track real easy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest humongous2002 Report post Posted January 9, 2003 I'm getting sick and tired about people making up excuses why shouldn't a wrestler that doesn't have good mic skills shouldn't be given a push, if that was true why has Taker, Brock, HHH and even Big Show has gotten a push all the time??? You could probably say that these wrestlers are huge and that's what Vince likes, but how about Bret Hart, he wasn't a huge roided up guy and his mic skills weren't that good either , well that's b/c of the fact that if Vince loves you he will push you to the moon, just by watching RAW I could tell he is not a Booker fan or an RVD fan , they might still be over with the fans but he hasn't decided to give them that special push they need, that's why fans are loosing interest in them, besides die-hard RVD/Booker fans who is going to cheer for a guy that keeps on loosing all the time or it's made out to look inferior compared to HGH? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mole Report post Posted January 9, 2003 I don't think Brock is bad on the mic. He is good enough to get his point across, and not sound like a fool. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest humongous2002 Report post Posted January 10, 2003 I don't think Brock is bad on the mic. He is good enough to get his point across, and not sound like a fool. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and to me Brock sounds like a big goof on the mic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
