What led to these guys falling off the radar?

[Guest Redhawk]

At one point or another each of the guys listed below were either on-the-cusp main eventers, Internet fan darlings, or both. Then they just fell off, and now they're wallowing in the mid-card. So what happened to...

 

Jeff Hardy

Raven

Rikishi

Billy Kidman

Tajiri

[Guest the pinjockey]

Jeff Hardy- he got "burnt out"

 

Raven- got screwed in WCW, never had a chance in WWF, and is a vocal malcontent reportedly so he will likely never get a chance

 

Rikishi- he gotted screwed as soon as HHH said the Austin hit and run was his idea

 

Billy Kidman- cruisers will never be taken seriously

 

Tajiri-see kidman

[Guest bob_barron]

Jeff Hardy- A combination of being made to look like a bitch against HHH and his detoriation from years of sick bumps have caused him to stall.

 

Rikishi- A heel turn and injuries killed him. He's just fine in the midcard doing his crowd popping moves.

 

Raven- Raven sucks and has not been given any kind of push since coming to WWE probably with good reason.

 

Kidman- Kidman was never really on the cusp of being a main eventer but he is currently getting pushed.

 

Tajiri- Jobbing to X-Pac at Summerslam and getting killed by Booker the next night pretty much killed his career dead

[Guest papacita]

Jeff Hardy: Character-wise, he never really recovered from the botched feud with Matt in 2001. From a wrestling standpoint, those big bumps he's taken over the years seem to have caught up with him.

 

Raven-I say the Alliance angle fucked him up. That or the angle with Tori that mysteriously got dropped a couple of years ago.

 

Rikishi-"I did it for the Rock"

 

Billy Kidman-He seems to be getting an ok push now.

 

Tajiri-The Alliance angle again. He just seemed to get lost in the whole thing.

[Guest treble charged]

I think putting Torrie with Tajiri probably did him the most harm. He was over on his own, and didn't need Torrie at all, yet they put her with him for whatever reason.

[Guest NoCalMike]

As far as Raven goes, I think for one, in order for him to get over, he would need more mic time and promo time and air time to get the "raven" character type gimmick going. Also, he was over in ECW and WCW, and in his early WWE days even though he didn't really do anything, so I blame the WWE "creative writers" soley. His new look also is NOT going to help.

[Guest Big McLargeHuge]

Jeff Hardy - He looks baked out his head and incapable of delivering a coherent promo or keeping a match from falling apart. He's done nothing in 3 years. Nothing. His character hasn't developed in the least in his tenure. He's completely one dimensional. At this point, the only ones who care about him are the overweight 15 year old girls. And HE was supposed to be the 'Shawn Michaels' of the Hardy Boys.

 

Raven - Had "Ooh, a new guy" heat coming in, but not much else. Would've been better off just taking a job as a booker.

 

Rikishi - Agreed on HHH killing his heat. Though he never should've been revealed as the driver in the first place. He was fine in his role of loveable mid-card babyface.

 

Billy Kidman - He's vanilla. Getting him over as just a wrestler would be different, but Vince doesn't have time for that...at least not for anyone under 6'4.

 

Tajiri - Turning heel killed his heat. Plain and simple.

[Guest papacita]

Tajiri - Turning heel killed his heat. Plain and simple.

I disagree. He really didn't have much heat going into the heel turn anyway, so I say the turn itself (initially) did him more good than harm.

 

Another problem with Tajiri is that he was kinda stereotyped as more of a comedy character as opposed to the serious threat that he was in ECW. And jobbing him out to heatless hosses didn't do him any favors either.

[Guest bravesfan]

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Jeff Hardy - Those who predicted his physical breakdown years ago, are sadly correct now. He needs a good amount of time off, to "refresh" his character, heal his body and find out if wrestling is really his desire and not just Matt's.

 

Vince owes a few wrestlers this luxury, considering the dangerous shit the writers put E&C, the Hardys and Dudleys through in 2000 and 2001 (3 TLC's, 25-30 recognized ladder matches in various combinations, lord knows how many table matches.)

 

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Raven - I have long since forgotten about him after 1998 ended. His gimmick has stayed the same, yet the writing staff hasn't allowed his character to take off correctly(possibly with a stable, or credible tag partner).

 

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Rikishi - It's the botched heel turn, obviously. HHH literally turned heel to "save" the angle, but there was no logical reason that Rikishi should've turned at all. Shit, it's been 4 years and the fans are still enamored with his act.

 

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Kidman - Well, he has less charisma than Test, and THAT's saying something. At least others that came before him, in his similar situation, had "natural charisma" to support themselves- Steve Blackman, Albert, Test circa 1998 and Jeff Jarrett.

 

Kidman is as bland as bread. Pushes will come and go, but they'll be no reason to push him beyond the Cruiserweight Title, unless the writers try their damndest to shove him down the fan's throats. A subsequent heel turn and BINGO...

 

---------------------------------------------

 

Tajiri - Well, the writers actually giving a shit about him may help. No one "cares" about you, when you're just being thrown onto TV with no rhyme or reason to be fighting anyone. Give him a promo, an angle, a feud...ANYTHING.

 

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[Guest NoCalMike]

Jeff Hardy - well he sucks, need anymore? He constantly messes up during matches. His "look" just gets more absurd by the week.

 

Rikishi - well he is a dancing fat guy, who's best known for sticking his grotesque ass in someone's face.

 

Tajiri - he was doomed from the start. The two WORST things going into the WWE he had. He is a cruiser and he is japanese. Two big no-nos in the WWE

 

Billy Kidman - has no character at all. He is a cruiserweight which gains no interest from the writers.

[Guest Dangerous A]

Jeff Hardy-Body is now broken down and it's obvious he's now into rampant drug use.

Raven-Old ECW and WCW guy. Vince doensn't push things that are not HIS creation. If he went back to Johnny Polo, then he might get a bone thrown his way.

Rikishi-Injuries and not changing his in ring style or schtick forever.Now seen as a comedy act and will probrably never be taken seriously again.

Billy Kidman-Old WCW act, so he won't get a big push, if any. He's also bland, can't act, and a cruiser. I don't know how he's even employed right now.

Tajiri-He's foreign (meaning not from North America for you Canadiens) and he's small, which all work against him. Tajiri had a charisma that transcended spoken language, but WWE fucked that all to hell with his constant heel/face turns that had no reasoning or justification.

 

Actually, that last thing for Tajiri is a thing killing some people currently. For instance, Benoit was given no reason to turn and be a face other than people give more heat to Angle, so he becomes de facto face? If you give the people a reason to cheer Benoit and get behind his cause as opposed to just throwing him out there with a guy and letting who doesn't get booed the loudest be your face, you'd probrably have more guys over, wouldn't you?

[Guest bob_barron]

Ummmm Kidman IS getting a push right now. He's been put over the Guerreros and Jamie Noble and has gotten airtime and a two month+ reign as champ.

 

It's Canadian btw

[Guest Si82]

Raven- Raven sucks and has not been given any kind of push since coming to WWE probably with good reason.

Bob, why do you hate Raven so? This isn't the first time I've seen you post about Raven sucking. I just don't unstand it. I think Raven is a good wrestler and a great interview too. I think that, like a lot of the former Alliance guys, he's been dealt a pretty shitty hand.

 

I mean next you'll be saying that you hate John Cena.

[Guest Passenger]

Raven -

I can see why people would think Raven sucks. I mean I'm a massive Raven fan, but i'm not gonna kid myself, he's past it. He can still cut a good promo, but rarely gets the opportunity, except on heat. He has never been anything special in the ring, even in his heyday he relied on weapons. It was the character that drew me to him, not his wrestling ability. He hasn't had chance to show his character in WWE and so he hasn't gotten himself over as much as he was in ECW and WCW, where he was given massive amounts of time for promos and to develop feuds. He can still work a fairly decent match, better than a lot of current Raw superstars. Make no mistake his best days are gone but he is no more boring in the ring than Regal is. Both men would benefit far more from a managerial type role, as both are charasmatic personalities whom generate heat when talking on the mic. Sadly the heat disappears once they get in the ring, as the fans don't really appreciate the slower type of wrestling they favour.

 

Jeff Hardy -

Was quite exciting when the Hardyz first got a push, had some innovative moves, hence he got over. Problem is that over 3 years later he still has the same act. Plus his body has deteriorated over the years and he is prone to lapses in concentration and general in ring sloppiness. The only reason he is still on TV is that he is still fairly popular in arenas, even if its only the teenage girls who cheer for him.

 

Rikishi -

See Jeff Hardy. His act has not changed for over 3 years either, except for a brief heel run which failed miserably. I enjoyed Too Cool and Rikishi for a while, although maybe it was becos' i dug their entrance music, I don't know. I admit I marked out when all three of them danced in the 2000 royal rumble, but even a month after that I was sick of them. Rikishi's act is unbelieveably stale, even more so than Jeff Hardy's, and is only kept around because he seems to be popular in arenas. He will never be treated seriously, and he doesn't deserve to be, he is just a sideshow to get a cheap pop out of the crowd.

 

Billy Kidman -

Better than average in the ring, but he will never amount to anything. Lacks charisma, he's always been just a bland babyface.(except for his flock days) He's too small and weedy looking to ever get near the main events in the WWE. I can't see the fans ever really caring about him. He was fairly over in WCW mainly due to his SSP, and that seems to be the only time he gets the fans to care about him now as well.

 

Tajiri -

Doesn't get long enough in the ring these days to show how good he is. I agree he was lost in the Invasion angle. Also his offense has been dumbed down from his ECW days, and he doesn't seem as vicious as he once was. He got as high as Vince was ever gonna push him within his first few months in the company and it's been downhill ever since.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Raven-Old ECW and WCW guy. Vince doensn't push things that are not HIS creation. If he went back to Johnny Polo, then he might get a bone thrown his way.

 

Er--he WAS playing Johnny Polo when he came to WWE anyway, only he was Johnny Polo dressed up like Raven. That sure as hell wasn't the Raven character.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Regarding Raven, I've never seen him have a great match that didn't also involve Benoit. The character just never thrilled me. I didn't mind him back in his smarmy heel phases early on in his career.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Raven's big problem came with the InVasion angle. Like so many guys at the time, he was cast into a group because of the company he was associated with and his push was ended in favor of the interpromotional thing. At the time, of course it seemed like idea since, they were desperate to make the InVasion work, but to guys like Raven it was a huge mistake.

 

I remember a Raven vs. Regal undercard match on one of the pay per views durring the InVasion. You could have heard a pin drop durring that match. Not too long before, Raven was getting very noticable face pops while Regal was making very well for himself as a heel.

 

It's pretty sad what a the InVasion did kill almost everyone's heat, undercard and main event.

[Guest Passenger]

Regarding Raven, I've never seen him have a great match that didn't also involve Benoit. The character just never thrilled me. I didn't mind him back in his smarmy heel phases early on in his career.

I have to agree there, I've never really seen Raven have a match above *** and his matches that did reach *** did involve Benoit, be it in 1 on 1 encounters or in tag matches. I'm not saying that I don't enjoy his matches because I do, even if if technically they aren't much.

[Guest Passenger]

Raven's big problem came with the InVasion angle. Like so many guys at the time, he was cast into a group because of the company he was associated with and his push was ended in favor of the interpromotional thing. At the time, of course it seemed like idea since, they were desperate to make the InVasion work, but to guys like Raven it was a huge mistake.

 

I remember a Raven vs. Regal undercard match on one of the pay per views durring the InVasion. You could have heard a pin drop durring that match. Not too long before, Raven was getting very noticable face pops while Regal was making very well for himself as a heel.

 

It's pretty sad what a the InVasion did kill almost everyone's heat, undercard and main event.

Yeah, that match was brutal to watch, not cos it was THAT bad, because there was no life in the crowd at all, even Tazz's run in barely registered. I was kinda surprised Raven went over actually, seeing as Regal was a much more high profile superstar at that point.

[Guest Ravenbomb]

Raven's been in plenty of Non-vs. Benoit matches that were good-really good. Raven and Stevie vs. Pittbulls (I know, most of you hated that) Raven vs. Rhyno from 2001, Raven and Cactus Jack vs. Tommy Dreamer and Terry Funk and some of the Raven vs. Dreamer matches were good.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Jeff Hardy- The injuries and his apparent lack of "desire". Guy needs a couple of months off to finally heal and decide whether he actually wants to do this pro wrestling thing.

 

Rikishi- The heel turn, plain and simple. That was the worst possible way to try and catapault him into the main event and the fans knew and shitted on it. Throw in the injuries and his laziness lately and he's fucked with a capital F.

 

Raven- Old age and injuries. Like it's been said before, he was never that good in the ring, but couple that with the staleness of the character and the Invasion angle and look out below...

 

Billy Kidman- Like Bob said, the guy's kinda getting a push now as he's being put over a lot of people. The problem is, he doesn't have the charisma to sustain the fans' interest.

 

Tajiri- The Invasion and injuries. Oh, and don't forget saddling him with Torrie and making him Regal's personal bitch.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

In case you didn't notice, Rikishi is on almost every week and just about never jobs...also gets that predictable stink face in almost every match.

 

Although I just change the channel when he's on.

 

Jeff Hardy has just been putting on shit matches...it's amazing they even let him on tv in his condition.

 

Kidman...if he had jumped in 99 I think Vince would have made him a star. A good looking, talented, American cruiser...but now that's nothing special...he's too bland, no charisma

[Guest Imarkout4chrisdaniels]

I think everyone has touched base on just about every reason these guys are no longer worth a damn. It can all be basically summed up in: they were not used correctly to get the maximum out of their ability or character. However, cases like Hardy's where any program he could have been given might have failed because he doesn't seem to have the desire to adapt or change what he was several years ago. He ssems to content to rest on his laurels (I feel dirty mentioning someone of his stature with that phrase...what laurels DID he have) rather than trying to make himself better.

 

As for Rikishi, I would like to add that when he first came in, he was a wrestler with surprising speed and agility given his look. He also had a pretty good moveset (throwing an opponent into the air to give them a cutter, pretty good kick to the chin for a guy his size, and the driver that he used was a very credible finisher). He impressed me at that point, and he was booked as a good wrestler that just happened to be fat. A little later, he started teaming with Too Cool, danced, and became a fat guy that danced and rubbed his ass in people's faces. Now what could have possibly been the reason he wasn't viewed as a serious wrestler after that? As a side note, he actually got even more popular after he started dancing and using the stink face, but you can't keep doing that year after year with no change.

[LooseCannon25 0]

Jeff Hardy --- The guy has been Mr. Xtreme or whatever for years now. Hasn't even TRIED to change his act at all, and the retarded arm and face paint don't count. Doesn't even seem to care anymore about being in the ring and the high spots have seemed to caught up with him rapidly.

 

Raven --- Plain and simple. WWE never planned on pushing him in the first place. They hated his look, but just thought it was get a minor pop for him to show up on a PPV and help Tazz beat Jerry Lawler. It's sad too cause the guy could put on a good match with psychology.

 

Rikishi --- I thought he was gonna be pretty big when he first came in as a heel. A big man with good agility and not a bad moveset. Well, he then became a dancing fool and even though he was over he wasn't taken seriously anymore. The heel turn didn't go very well for him and now he's doing the same shit he was doing 3-4 years ago. Time for a change. This guy's a friggin joke now.

 

Kidman --- He's been champion for about 2 months now and has some good wins. This is as big a push as he's gonna get in WWE so he better enjoy it. IT's all downhill from here.

 

Tajiri --- He was pretty over when he turned face and left Regal. The fans loved him. Throwing him in a love story killed him and his heel turn killed his heat. He's back now and has gotten a few wins and i think if built properly he could be at the top of the CW division again soon.

[Guest Passenger]

Raven's been in plenty of Non-vs. Benoit matches that were good-really good. Raven and Stevie vs. Pittbulls (I know, most of you hated that) Raven vs. Rhyno from 2001, Raven and Cactus Jack vs. Tommy Dreamer and Terry Funk and some of the Raven vs. Dreamer matches were good.

Although I enjoyed his character In ECW, his macthes IMO were nothing special. The matches you mentioned were good, but not as good as his matches VS Benoit, although his final match against Dreamer before he jumped to WCW was up there with his Benoit encounters.

[Guest AfricanAmerican]

Tajiri - he was doomed from the start. The two WORST things going into the WWE he had. He is a cruiser and he is japanese. Two big no-nos in the WWE

Two big no-no's? If they were no no's or whateva u wanna call em in the WWE, then he wouldnt be signed, now would he. Would you hire someone u didnt want? Neither would Vince.

 

Him being a cruiserweight doesn't have anything to do with a lack of push. Maybe there's no program available for him. As someone said, all he needs is a feud, or reason as to why he shows up on TV once a month. Rey and Kidman are cruisers, yet they haven't fallen off of the radar. If WWE only wanted big 300 pound men, then we'd see nothing but big 300 pound men.

 

And using his race as a reason to explain why he isn't being used is crazy. Maybe WWE does overplay the races of minority characters (black people actin ghetto or blaming racism, asians that cant speak english) but people dont get depushed because of it. Tajiri has been just a victim of bad luck if u ask me. He had a pretty good feud running with Maven over Torrie Wilson. What happens? Maven gets injured. Tajiri is left without a feud, with out a program. If I remember correctly, Tajiri himself also suffered an injury, and had just made his return last week on Smackdown.

 

I dont think Tajiri has fallen off of the radar, just that there's nothing for him to do right now.

[Guest subliminal_animal]

As a side note, he actually got even more popular after he started dancing and using the stink face, but you can't keep doing that year after year with no change.

But he started the dancing in his second appearance.

[Guest Army Eye]

Raven- Raven sucks and has not been given any kind of push since coming to WWE probably with good reason.

That's some good factual analysis right there

[Guest Youth N Asia]

I actually liked Rikishi to start...the 400 lb Samoan dancing with Too Cool...but he's kept the damn gimmick for over 3 years...does his same little flip bump for a clothesline every time...and the stinkface was funny with first time, not the second, and not after that.

 

Also his constant "raising of the roof" just bothers me more then it should

[Guest cabbageboy]

Jeff Hardy: I sorta disagree with the whole thing about HHH killing his heat. I don't think him winning and losing the IC title hurt him much. I'd say his own self destruction and the screwed up feud with Matt hurt him a lot.

 

Raven: Raven got really burned out in his last ECW tenure, a fact that Heyman was more than willing to discuss. He's mostly in it for the money at this point.

 

Rikishi: I won't blame HHH for this one either since Rikishi's heel turn was awful from the start. It killed his heat big time.

 

Billy Kidman: Kidman is doing ok nowdays I'd say. If you mean WCW then the Hogan feud hurt his heat for about 3 years.

 

Tajiri: Tajiri had a decent thing going for a while but started jobbing left and right and voila no one cared about him anymore.