Booker T

[Guest HHHater]

Goldust is definitely a better worker than Booker. By FAR.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

You mean when Rock and Jeff Hardy couldn't get up for the move.

 

Or like when he got Test up and damn near dropped him on his head?

 

You do know that wrestling is a work, right? You do know that the VICTIM is supposed to get up for the chokeslam and if he doesn't that's called SANDBAGGING? Hogan sandbagged Taker.

 

Aw gee... REALLY? So I guess the fact that Taker didn't put much effort into making them look even remotely decent considering who he was facing is all Hogan's fault too, eh?

 

Yes, HHH was a cripple, so let's blame Mark.

I blame them both for that pathetic excuse for a match.

 

Of course, maybe Goldust is better than both of them. That's certainly an arguable point, and one several people won't "get" because they write off his ability because of his comedy-based character.

Arguable point there, Loss. I pretty much put about the same.

 

I personally wish Booker T would TOTALLY drop most of the rest moves from his matches, that's the main reason I get on him sometimes.

I have the same gripe with Christian. Talk about overrated pieces of garbage...

[Guest bob_barron]

What about X-8 when Taker couldn't Flair up for the Last Ride.

 

Anyone else think this guy is Smarkzone? They both hated Booker T and always pointed out his last **** match was v. Benoit.

 

Booker does need to cut out the rest holds but aside from that he's one of the top workers on RAW and regardless of that fact- he deserves a push

[Guest Brian]

"You do know that wrestling is a work, right? You do know that the VICTIM is supposed to get up for the chokeslam and if he doesn't that's called SANDBAGGING? Hogan sandbagged Taker."

 

You mean like when Undertaker sandbagged half of the first match with Brock?

 

Anyways, Booker has a good moveset which moves to a climatic point in the match generally. It may be all kicks but it moves the match along and works to that final axe-kick, and isn't just spotty and all over the place.

[Guest Just call me Dan]

Booker just needs to be put on Smackdown. He was doing rather well before, and he is just stuck in the black hole that is RAW. RAW is WCW. Booker was motivated and worked hard in WCW in the end because it was his first big push. He was excited. If he was already on top during those times, you'd have been seeing this sloppy offense more. RAW really is horrid and even Lance Storm looks like some OVW wannabe n the ring now. Kill the split.

[Guest bob_barron]

If the split dies then so does the great SD! action

[Guest Brian]

And any hope of guys being elevated.

[Guest HHHater]

All Christian does is stomp, choke, and do a few moves out of an inverted facelock. But I don't really hear the Internet singing his praises anymore, so I can't really call him overrated. I think everybody realized what a limited worker he is without tables, ladders and chairs.

[Guest bob_barron]

There are still some people who still sing his praises and try to claim he's better then Edge but they're in the minority

[Guest HHHater]

Christian was the funnier of the two on the mic when they were heels, but in the ring? It's no contest.

[Guest creativename]

Christian was the funnier of the two on the mic when they were heels, but in the ring? It's no contest.

I'm not sure whether I'd say that just yet--I'm not a Christian fan or anything, and don't think he'll ever amount to anything more than a undercarder/midcarder. But Edge has had much more to work with than Christian. And I think if Edge was a heel, he'd probably overdo the restholds, too.

 

Not that I think Christian should be pushed more than Edge--Edge should be higher on the card (though I don't think he'll ever be what the WWE wants him to be). But to say that Edge is clearly the superior work would be inappropriate, I believe.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

To echo Ricky Choshu's thoughts (btw, PM coming tonight about your tape), Booker is a versitile worker.

 

Booker rolls out his moves and spots effectivly. Off the top of my head, he has:

 

Knife Edge Chop

Flying Forearm

Lariat

A variety of spinning leg kicks

Axe kick

Book End (Rock Bottom/Uranagi)

Overhead Slam

 

Plus, he has the rolling sunset flip off the turnbuckle as a major spot.

 

I'll take a smart and simple offense over RVD's classic "Thunderoll" spot which you can see coming from a mile away or Edge's "Indy Innovation" moves...though I'll take Edge any day over Undertaker, RVD, etc who have been cited as good in this thread.

 

People are too into movesets these days. If you are Old Man Flair and won't do a single move in a match but chops and bumps, then you have some problems. But if you are doing crazy moves that make no sense, then you have problems as well.

 

BookDust v Jericho/Christian is EASILY Raw MOTY 2002...probably my pick for TV match of the Year. Kills the less thought out Smackdown matches.

 

As for Dustin Rhodes being better than Booker....I won't comment.

 

Let's just say if Book had Rhodes mind for the art of wrestling, he would be having ****+ matches every time out.

 

Tim

[Guest RickyChosyu]

"I'm sorry, but I just don't understand what Booker matches you are watching to get this assessment of his offense. His primary offense consists of very similar looking kicks, which happen to be very slowly executed and tedious in the extreme."

 

I don't see them as tedious because he varries them enough to keep them from becoming repetative. He's got the spin kick, the scissors kick, and the ax kick for transition strikes. I don't know what you mean by slowly executed either. He usually hits them gracefully, but he doesn't take long to set them up or anything.

 

"Slams? That would be the spinebuster which everyone dogs on these days because its used by half the roster?"

 

He's got the Allabama Slam as well, and there's nothing wrong with the Spinebuster, if it's used correctly. It can be a very affective transition, and when Booker does pull it out he seems to do so in a way to grab control of the match, which is how it should be used.

 

"His punches are nothing special, although his missile dropkick is nice."

 

He uses chops more than punchs, which is wise since WWE punches seem to be required to miss by at least six inches.

 

"The scissors kick does nothing for me, again its too slow."

 

He gets great height on it but it still seems fast enough. It's no slower than the dropkicks everyone else uses.

 

"Interesting thing about the chinlock is that when Booker was a heel he was handing out chinlocks all over the place. Has quite a lot of chinlocks in his face matches also."

 

There's nothing wrong with chin locks if they're used correctly. They can be great tools to rally the crowd behind a face in peril, which is why it made sense for Booker to use them as a heel. Storm and Regal, however, didn't have a willingness to do anything but use chinlocks. It was like they wanted to skip the "work" portion of the match and get right to the part where they slap a guy in a hold and expect the crowd to get excited.

 

"Again, not to be disparaging, but I just don't see anything of note in Booker's offense. Maybe its that he's on the same show as Storm, RVD and Triple H that makes his kicks look faster than they are."

 

Nah, Christian and Dustin are plenty fast and Booker looks good next to them, I think. I like Booker's offense because, again, it's creative but not overbearing like RVD and many indy workers. They're impressive from an athletic standpoint and look very smooth as well. Plus he's got a good variety for every point in the match and he uses it effectively.

 

But then, I've always come from the "less is more" camp of transitions. I could really care less about guys that have a huge variety of moves but no idea how to make any of them work at the right point of the match.

[Guest HHHater]

I wasn't criticizing Booker's moveset, trust me. I mean, come on, I am a Demolition mark. What did they ever do except for "ground and pound"? I was criticizing Booker for being sloppy on offense and lost on defense.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

When is Booker sloppy? His moves always seem very crisp to me.

 

And how exactly do you get "lost" on defense? Defense is usuall a time when the wrestler just sells for his opponent and goes along with whatever he wants. Booker is great at making comebacks after taking a beating as well, hitting big moves out of no where at just the right times. I think that's a big part of what make his and Dustin's matches so great.

 

I would also have to agree with Tim about BooDust/JerichoChristian killing the Smackdown! tags. Many people get off on pure workrate alone, but I'll take minimal smart work over pointless, piled on work any day. The SD matches have tons of neat spots, big bumps, and high work ethic, but they have little depth to them, because they never establish any kind of formula or story board for the wrestlers to follow. It seems to be a "go out there and hit your big stuff, then go home" in pretty much every single one. That's why none of them stood out above the others, because they were all basically the same match done in different order.

[Guest HHHater]

And how exactly do you get "lost" on defense? Defense is usuall a time when the wrestler just sells for his opponent and goes along with whatever he wants.

 

Exactly! Read my example from above (vs. Jericho on RAW). Jericho was trying to get Booker to "go along" with what he wanted, but Booker couldn't understand the spot. It's defense that Booker is sloppy on, not offense. He sandbags and blows spots left and right.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

I read it the first time and it didn't make sense to me. Instead of calling a spot, why didn't Jericho just do the old "slap on a head lock, got shoved off, run the ropes and walk into the transition" spot to give control to Booker. If Booker couldn't hear him, he couldn't hear him, and it seems to me that Jericho would be more at fault because he didn't give up trying to tell Booker whatever it was he was trying to tell him.

 

I didn't see the match, but it doesn't seem like a good case against Booker as he always seems on top of things in his matches. Again, I have to point to Jericho/Christian vs. Booker/Dustin as Booker was wonderfull hitting his big spots and knowing just one to make his comebacks so that the crowd went bonkers.

[Guest HHHater]

Jericho tried about THREE times. Finally, he just had to take Booker down awkwardly and slap on the Walls. Basically, Booker's incompetence made him go from A to D and skip B and C. Yeah, everybody fucks up, but I see Booker do this all the time. Not *that* badly, but just this past week on RAW he was getting confused in there once again.

 

If you think Booker is a good worker, that's your opinion and obviously I am not gonna change your mind...and vice versa.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

You would have an easier time "changing my mind" if you could convince me that it was Booker's fault.

 

Why did Jericho repeatedly try and wisper the spot to him? What was stopping him from, you know, trying something else? Why did he even have to wisper it to him to begin with? Why not just do a standard sequence to kill time?

 

Not being able to hear Jericho wispering a spot doesn't make Booker a bad worker. Things like that happen sometimes. However, it wouldn't have been made so obvious to the audience of Jericho had just done something else.

[Guest HHHater]

If the spot was audible to the camera, then Booker definitely heard it. The crowd wasn't even that loud. He just didn't get the spot.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Kind of a petty thing to get hung up on, isn't it? It's not like the spot would have made or broken the match, so what's the big deal?

[Guest HHHater]

That would be petty. Like I said, I'm hung up on the fact that he does it on a weekly basis. Until Booker shows me otherwise, he's a bad worker (IMO).

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Well a close to another *super* smarks thread!

 

Most people look like idiots, some actually show they understand the fundamental concepts of wrestling.

 

And HHHaters just makes an ass out of himself.

 

3 Cheers...Hip Hip Hooray!

 

Tim

[Guest TheyCallMeMark]

If you think Booker is a good worker, that's your opinion and obviously I am not gonna change your mind...and vice versa.

 

If you're totally unwilling to give the other side of the argument anything, why make this thread? To have people agree with you so you can feel good to be part of something? Because if you're not going to even consider the other persons arguments why are you talking about it?

[Guest HHHater]

Celebrate all you want, I said nothing that can't be backed up with video evidence.

[Guest Brian]

Then back it up.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Booker isn't sloppy. 3 Tons Of Fun are sloppy. Jeff Hardy is sloppy. Booker isn't.

 

Also, my favorite Last Ride was the one at SummerSlam, when Undertaker picked up Test then really couldn't hold him in the air for the wedge, but started struggling under his weight. You could almost hear the "OH SHIT!" in your head.

 

He stumbled backwards into the ropes and if he went over, his head would have been sandwiched between Test and the floor.

[Guest HHHater]

Jeff Hardy makes Booker look as snug as Benoit.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Well a close to another *super* smarks thread!

 

Most people look like idiots, some actually show they understand the fundamental concepts of wrestling.

<---- Was one of the idiots.

 

Oh well, at least I'm not Flyboy...

 

 

[Guest TheGame2705]

Overrated? Absolutely. Don't get me wrong, Booker is a solid in-ring guy with good mic skills, good charisma and is entertaining but gets constantly praised at the level of Benoit, Guerrero, Angle etc. which isn't right.

I think most people put him at that level not because of ringwork but because he should be one of the guys being elevated. People also praise Team Angle a hell of a lot too and they'd be heatless without Angle. But that's right I guess. I don't think Angle should be placed at that level. Mister My Moonsault killed Bob's Holly career but I have an ankle submission and don't do anything to prepare for it because it looks like shit and I have to borrow moves from Benoit to have some other stuff to use during the match.

 

His spots always seem a little off and sloppy, as do his kicks.

Oh you mean a little off like Eddie Guerrero and Jericho? Like when Eddie finishes a move (usually a dropkick or a suplex), picks up his opponent, punches them, looks at them, waits, grabs them by the head, waits, kicks them to the stomach, waits, and whips them to the ropes which he does about three or more times a match. A little off like Eddie in the opening match of RAW in a six man tag with Benoit, Eddie, and Regal against Bubba, Spike, and someone else when Eddie messed up a pin sequence with Spike and caused them to go to impromptu elimination?

 

Anybody who saw his RAW match with Eddy before he and Benoit jumped ship can attest to the overrated-ness of Booker.

As I mentioned Eddie shouldn't be a measuring stick and his RAW match with Benoit showed he sucks? Oh yeah let's forget about the SEVEN (not counting the one that ended in DQ) great matches he had with him before.

 

The guy blew at least three spots in a four minute match with Eddy, threw sloppy kicks and in general couldn't keep pace with Eddy.

Eddy sets his own pace that almost no one can follow anymore because he was so drunk off his ass.

 

 

I'm not trying to say Booker is an excellent wrestler but he can certainly get a crowd behind him, has some good kicks, and in general isn't that bad. He however uses too many restholds at times which kill the flow of his matches.