In your opinion, what makes a match great...

[Guest Downhome]

I live and die by the belief that all truely great matches, ***** quality matches, have one thing in common for the most part...

 

...E-M-O-T-I-O-N, EMOTION.

 

If you can create a special emotional bond between the fans, and the story being told in the ring, even IF the in ring work isn't perfect, magic can happen before your eyes.

 

I don't believe in a set ***** rating however, it's all just personal choice, an my personal choice says the above, lol.

 

I've seen many a great match in ring wise that was not as good as it could have been, had that emotional connection been there. Obviously the in ring work is the most important, but I hope you get what I've said so far.

 

Sincerely,

...Downhome...

[Guest Youth N Asia]

I hate star ratings.

 

If you can't make the crowd get into the match then it isnt worth shit. (which doesn't apply to Japan...they're quiet)

 

Remember that 10 man tag from Raw in 2000?

HHH/X Pac/Benoit/ Saturn/Malenko vs Foley/Rock/Too Cool/Rikishi

 

The match itself was good...but the way the crowd was into it made it great.

[Guest Downhome]

I hate star ratings.

 

If you can't make the crowd get into the match then it isnt worth shit. (which doesn't apply to Japan...they're quiet)

 

Remember that 10 man tag from Raw in 2000?

HHH/X Pac/Benoit/ Saturn/Malenko vs Foley/Rock/Too Cool/Rikishi

 

The match itself was good...but the way the crowd was into it made it great.

In Japan, the crowd is WAY different. They stay quiet at the begining, yet clap on both guys in the ring, they are very respectfull of those who perform for them. The crowd is much like many Puroresu matches, start slow, and finish big.

 

That match you just listed is a PERFECT example, but I have an even better one, quite possibly the grandaddy of this...

 

...Hulk Hogan vs. Andre the Giant, WrestleMania III.

[Guest Rob Edwards]

Emotion is good as it's always up to the performers to pull you into it

 

My favourate matches usually happen when the guys really make you believe their roles in the match, if two people can get it across that they really hate each other out there then you're likley to be supporting either the face or the heel and maches are usually more fun when you support somebody

 

Does emotion make classics though? No there have been emotional matches that have not come close to being classics

[Guest Downhome]

Does emotion make classics though? No there have been emotional matches that have not come close to being classics

Of course not, as I stated in my first post. For a match to truly become a classic, you must find that very thin line where all the aspects meet perfectly. It does indeed, take a lot.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

You could even use Hogan/Rock

 

It was overall a pretty decient match...and a great match by Hogan standards. The crowd told a story though, and turned a pretty good match into a BAH GAWD classic

[Guest Rob Edwards]

I guess it depends on how you define a classic. to me a classic should stand up on it's own as after 3-4 viewings the crowds reaction to things isn't going to mean much to me (maybe I'm just miserable)

[Guest Brian]

No, I understand what your saying. I guess the best thing a match can have going for it is a strong internal storyline, and a lot of times that invokes emotion and crowd reaction.

[Guest Choken One]

I think Hogan-Rock will stand the test of time like Andre-Hogan has.

 

This is what makes a ***** for me

 

Great Workrate (*** automatic)

Emotion of self (3/4 stars)

Good Story(1/4 stars)

Heat (1/2 Stars)

and lastly

The undescribable Intangibles (1/2 stars)

[Guest ManKinnd]

***** matches leave with goosebumps when the referee counts a three. You smile and are proud to be a wrestling fan. There are things you cannot describe. You can only say "Great match."

[Guest Youth N Asia]

I think Hogan-Rock will stand the test of time like Andre-Hogan has.

 

This is what makes a ***** for me

 

Great Workrate (*** automatic)

Emotion of self (3/4 stars)

Good Story(1/4 stars)

Heat (1/2 Stars)

and lastly

The undescribable Intangibles (1/2 stars)

That's a really botched system...that's why I think star ratings are bad. It's hard to put what I'm trying to relay into words...

 

I just don't think rating systems where points are given to each individual piece of a match can work

[Guest Vern Gagne]

A good storyline buildup. Savage/ Steamboat, Hart/Austin, Hart/Hart all had it.

 

Other factors come into play, but if I don't care or worse know why these this match is happening it doesn't appeal to me has much.

[Guest Rob Edwards]

I will admit to rating matches but then i don't really have a system for doing it other than my own enjoyment of the match, many matches I've seen have had nothing wrong with them workrate wise but were missing a spark and wound up boring as a result

[EL DANDY~! 0]

For instance...

 

Any of the Big 3 Steamer/Flair 89 matches had things going for it that no other match had. A long and heated rivalry. Rivalry makes a feud, which can blowoff into something big. What are matches like now-a-days? Feuds that are built on four week intervals. Except for Benoit and Angle who have had OUTSTANDING matches over the last three years. Kawada and Misawa? Rivalry that was more intense than Flair, simply because Kawada was merely a shadow of Misawa and Kawada wanted to escape that shadow. Ditto for Owen and Bret. See, it's BACKSTORY. It builds to all those other aspects of the classic matches. Without it, those matches are nothing more than a bunch of moves strung together.

[Guest Dangerous A]

***** matches leave with goosebumps when the referee counts a three. You smile and are proud to be a wrestling fan. There are things you cannot describe. You can only say "Great match."

This is the answer to the question posed at the beginning of the thread. It should be noted and kept in a place warm and toasty.

[Guest Choken One]

For those who like to note...RIGHT Now I am watching a ***** Match...Austin/Bret WM13. I just finished a ****1/4 match (Bret/Perfect).

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

It takes that moment.

 

That moment where everyone on the building, and everyone on TV says "Holy shit. I'm going to remember that. When I think of pro wrestling from here on out, a picture of THIS will be right beside it."

 

This is why I never understand the Flair/Steamer WrestleWar love. Yes, it's a brilliant display of psychology and submission-heavy wrestling. There's not one awe-inspiring moment where you can hit pause and say "Now that's what it's all about." You have to see everything else to appreciate it. And I kind of thought the finish was a tad abrupt.

 

Ah well...

[Guest NoSelfWorth]

A great match is one where when the referee counts to 3, you feel like you just had an orgasm. Where the match was so good at whatever it is about wrestling that appeals to, whether it's spots, emotion or psychology, that when it climaxes, you feel like you climaxed with it.

[Guest red_file]

A great match is one where when the referee counts to 3, you feel like you just had an orgasm. Where the match was so good at whatever it is about wrestling that appeals to, whether it's spots, emotion or psychology, that when it climaxes, you feel like you climaxed with it.

I've apparently never seen a great match.

[Guest godthedog]

you can have a classic without any buildup. michaels/foley made a classic out of a total throwaway feud, and angle/benoit from unforgiven had gotten a horrible buildup, & the feud only really got kicked off during that match--the match made the feud, not the other way around.

[Guest RenegadeX28]

For a match to be a classic, the story behind it, the buildup, must be good.

 

Well, The Rock vs Hogan is a classic. Generation's past vs Generation's Future. It was nostalgic to see Hogan back, fighting my favorite wrestler.

[Guest TheyCallMeMark]

For me the ***** match has to fill three parameters.

 

The matches work itself must be intirely flawless. Every single spot has to hit, the transitions between the spots have to be seamless. Every blow has to be sold exactly as if it was landed by the most skilled figther on earth, and every blow sold must look as if it should have gotten the reaction it did. There can be no wasted second, no rest hold or miscommunication. This is actually a pretty tough thing to overcome, seeing as within the WWE style it is literally impossible to fufill this requirement. The workers are not allowed to be stiff enough to make me think of their strikes as powerful.

 

There has to be some deeper psychology, or backstory. Beyond working a body part. It has to have serious and complete depth; it has to build of previous matches and angles and encounters between the two wrestlers. This is why no suddenly booked match will ever reach *****'s. I have seen matches that have built on months and years of previous work, so now anything less can not be as good. Basically what I am saying is the match has to have more than just it's face value. I have to be able to both watch the match on it's lonesome and pick up on new things I hadn't seen before every time I watch it, and also I have to be able to learn more about the match as I learn more about the history of the fued and the wrestlers involved.

 

Then there is that intangible thing I can't explain. Mannkind described it. The feeling of awe. That smile on your face and the taste in your mouth and the impusle to talk that you cannot meet with adequate words.

 

If you're wondering, the only match I rate at ***** is Misawa/Kobashi 10/98. I think that rating can be blamed on my lack of seeing more wrestling.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Influence/Impact should be noted as a cause for greatness.

[Guest TheHulkster]

If you can't make the crowd get into the match then it isnt worth shit. (which doesn't apply to Japan...they're quiet)

 

Remember that 10 man tag from Raw in 2000?

HHH/X Pac/Benoit/ Saturn/Malenko vs Foley/Rock/Too Cool/Rikishi

 

The match itself was good...but the way the crowd was into it made it great.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

I don't give alot of matches the ***** because there are very few that are near perfect. For example... Steamboat/Flair from WrestleWar 89 was near pefect, which warrants me to give it *****. Everything made sense... every move, every reaction. The selling was superb. Austin/Hart from WM 13 on the other hand, while really great (**** 3/4 in my opinion) was not near perfect. It's a great brawl, but I can't ignore Austin's off and on again selling of the leg that Hart works throughout the match.

[Guest RickyChosyu]

Selling, transitions, psychology, and storyline are the best fundimentals.

 

I don't think a match needs to have a ton of backstory as much as strong motivations for the wrestlers to behave the way they do. If there's fire, drive, and emotion behind what happens and they connect that feeling to the audience, the match can succeed.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

I dunno. I have a lot of matches that I really really enjoy but I never really rate matches. I just say "This is a good match". I leave the star ratings up to everyone else. I just know what I like.

[Guest deadbeater]

Oh yeah, the match has to be long, long, long enough to tell a story. Short fables like the Molly/Jacqueline matches won't do, I guess.

[Guest Brian]

A perfect match is an overrated concept. Perfection is a fleeting moment. Once you reach it, it's gone. It's not perfect anymore.

[Guest Just call me Dan]

I'll tell you what makes a match a classic.

 

Besides selling (especially if psychology is used), great workrate, heat and emotion, there is one thing that does it for me.

 

EVERY move should mean something. Go back and watch DBS/Hart from Summerslam 1992. They didn't do all these insane or stiff moves like today. Hell there were about a total of 4 signature moves in the entire 30 minute match. Beut everything was impactful. To the crowd, to each person.

 

When I see a match that has about 40 cool moves executed, but none of them come even close to finishing it off, I groan.

 

It is hard now for new and coming wrestlers to find signature moves to add in with their basic offense. Problem is because EVERYONE has like 10! moves are sloppily executed just for a pop now and transitions or not, it kills the match for me.