No one will care but....

January 25, 2003

Goodbye. Tony149 rules. Dames sucks.

January 25, 2003

I suppose this is as good a place as any to announce that I, too, am taking a sabbatical away from normal board related activities. Or at least from my normal posting schedule, not that anyone really cares.

I'll still be OAOAST active, just not very board active at all . . . for a while, anyways.

January 25, 2003

That's too bad for the both of you (unless these are for good reasons, in which case I wish you nothing but the best in the real world), we'll be missing two good members, particularly Poet (no offense TJH, it's just that he posts more and thus I know him better).

January 25, 2003

I'll still be aroubnd to kick BUTT in the OAOAST.

Mostly I'm just aggravated with some things in the regular board community. I figure I'd either wind up saying something I'll regret sooner or later around here, or start changing my principles, which ultimately I won't do.

So, it's more of a cooling off period. I'm not leaving so much as just stepping into the background a little. Just going to offer my views on things a little more rarely and avoid some of the things that are going to tick me off sooner or later. I have to figure out how to approach some subjects on the boards (which I'm sure most people that pay any attention to me can figure out) and manage to strike a balance between two different worlds, as it might be.

Basically, it comes down to this:

I am a Christian. I am a vocal Christian. I am not a political Christian. I am very faithful to my principles and my convictions, even as I am at a stage in my spiritual and earthly life where many of those things are just starting to really take form in my heart. In the wake of Dopey and his ilk, I have come to sense a somewhat disturbing hostility towards us Christians and to be honest it is starting to take away from my enjoyment of hanging around here.

But I also recognize that this place is a melting pot of ideas and philosophies, and even faiths. I'm not going to sit here and make a thread about how other people have to be nice to me or how people absolutely must watch what they say lest I take offense.

1, I have to earn anyone's respect in any forum, online or not, just as they have to earn mine.

2, There are some people here that, no matter how well I were to word my concerns, no matter how intelligently I were to present my views, would twist and mangle my meaning and try to turn it into just another, "This guy is some ghey Christian, BAN PLZ~!" thread.

And then I would likely say some things that I do not wish to. Because there are some people here that may oppose my beliefs but have also been good conversation and have been intelligent adults in their dialogues with me.

The problem is trying to strike that balance. Because I'm not about founding the CHRISTIAN CLIQUE~! around here or turning into the next Dopey. I enjoy screwing around with the people around here a great deal. Heck, my post count says that much, I think. I just have to figure out how I can do that without compromising my own code of conduct and still maintain an intelligent, respectable approach to it. How I can come here, be a full on Christian, and still be able to just have fun without some anti-religious statement getting me agitated and finding myself playing monkey in the middle in another huge war about religion in NHB.

So often it has come down to just me trying to present it fully and sanely against all comers. Dopey was certainly no help there, and often instigated it, and created new arguments that I tried to explain better when he popped in, threw out some scripture, and got flamed when it wasn't really much of an explanation for a non-believer.

That can be very tiring. Especially when you find yourself playing monkey in the middle in a similar fashion offline as well.

If I can figure out a way to balance it out, to not let the jerks around here agitate me, then I would love to keep on having fun. But it's just not fun anymore, and my God is more important than a message board, no matter how much fun the board can be. That will always be my first choice, and my faith is an integral, inseperable part of who I am.

I'll still be around. I just need to figure out how to mesh these things together without compromising my views and how I think I should be behaving, period. Offline or On, I see no reason to act one way somewhere and another elsewhere, especially when it comes to presenting myself as a Christian.

So, sitting back, chilling out, and trying to figure out how to integrate it all together seems the logical, intelligent choice for me in this instance.

January 25, 2003

Good reason, SP. I respect your decision, and I respect you for having the foresight to make that decision.

Farewell to TJH as well, even though I really don't know you.

January 25, 2003

I hear what your saying SP, but you have to remember one thing; this is only the internet.

January 25, 2003

Hey SP no one ever considered you in any way similar to Dopey. He was fucking retarded, you're clearly not.

When it comes to Christianity, some people have faith, and some do not. For those who don't, the bible doesn't MEAN anything, because it's just a book. So trying to pass it off as some sort of truth is going to rub people the wrong way. Similarly, even as a Christian who has faith in God and Jesus, I recognize that a lot of what "happened" in the bible is a myth. When people like RobJohnstone act like the earth is truly only 6000 years old, then he's just plain wrong, and I get irritated when people insist on promoting fallacies.

January 25, 2003

dude, how can I be clearly wrong? You cannot prove creation or evolution. Since you cannot prove either, how can I be clearly wrong. Get your facts together bro. If you think you can prove it fine, you will be the first in the world to do so. Let me know when you want to debate, we can do it in realtime on aolim or irc or something. Please do not call me out and not expect a response. Also when you talk trash, please, I beg of you to be able to back it up.

--Rob

January 25, 2003

Fine, but lets not let this thread turn into this. My bad for bringing it up.

January 25, 2003

cool, let me know when you want to do that.

--Rob

January 25, 2003

Case in point, Eric: As a Christian I, too, believe in the infallibility of the Bible. Saying that you disagree with that view and presenting why is great, but saying, "Dude, you're just flat out wrong," when opposite viewpoints aren't exactly concrete either just doesn't compute, either.

And therein lies the problem. People don't want to debate, people just want to be right it seems. Or at least people don't seem to want to consider their wording on things. I would never say, "No, you are wrong." I would say, "I disagree, because:" and I would explain my side. And I would look into it from various resources before digging into it as well.

It amounts to an unneccesary pseudo-hostility that just isn't needed, and certainly isn't wanted.

Now, I'm not calling you out specifically, but the way you worded that was a nice illustration for part of what has been bugging me around here. And we hardline Christians do it too, at times. Rob does at times, Dopey certainly did often, and I'm sure sooner or later I would be forced to say that I have every conviction that what I believe is true and would have to end my defense on that note.

It's the fact that alot of people just can't live with that or go about discussing things peacefully. Once someone figures out that their opponent in this matter isn't going to readily change their mind, tempers flare and it becomes, "This is stupid and u r a homogay d00d~!"

It's a fine line to walk in these matters because on the one hand if I keep relenting then I do myself a disservice as well as the person I'm having a dialogue with, but if I hold fast and it comes down to faith vs. angry argument, I come close to the zealot line to alot of people. And neither of those options readily accomplishes my overall goal of representing Christ in all endeavors.

It's quite trick. Completely doable, but quite tricky. And come to think about it I suppose the only way to figure it out is to get down in the trenches. Perhaps laying back isn't needed, but rather being a bit more vocal is. Something to consider, for sure.

January 25, 2003

I personally feel that if we all just didn't talk about religion, we'd all be better off here. No one trying to get someone to believe their ways, and no one making fun of religion for no good reason.

Just don't bring it up, it would make for a much easy going TSM family.

January 25, 2003

This is bull shit.

*cries*

January 25, 2003

I personally feel that if we all just didn't talk about religion, we'd all be better off here. No one trying to get someone to believe their ways, and no one making fun of religion for no good reason.

Just don't bring it up, it would make for a much easy going TSM family.

downhome, that is not going to happen. I do not mention GOD in every post but, with GOD as a part of my life sometimes he has to be brought up. Also being flame baited by the liberal party of TSM doesn't help either.

Like Sp said, if you cannot prove something it is opinion so please do not treat it as fact and start insulting people. I think that would be the biggest problem here. But people like Dr. Tom do a good job of managing it.

--Rob

January 25, 2003

Seeing as how I have friends who are just like you SP, I can see where you are coming from and I can respect that.

While I despise the "good-bye" posts that many use, in your case SP, it is fine because while you will not be posting much on the Smarts forums, at least (for those of us who don't normally talk to you outside of the Smarts) we will at least know your reasoning for cutting back on your posts.

If you were going to flat out leave the board then I'd say nothing in this thread.

But over the past couple of months, I have grown to enjoy your presence at the Smarts forums and I hope things work out to where you feel comfortable posting at the Smarts forums again.

January 26, 2003

I've always found that dumb sass. If someone is flat out leaving then he should make a goodbye thread.

January 26, 2003

So I come onto the board, and CWM tells me that SpiderPoet and TJH are quitting because of how religion is being treated on this board.

Let's face it, we got off to a bad start with Dopey. We know that. However the religious bashing has gone on long enough, and I intend to rectify this situation.

Everyone has a right to discuss religion. Especially here. Now, I haven't ever really used my so-called "position" on this board to achieve any sort of power stuff. I like the OaOasT, and I stay there.

I will attempt to throw my weight around now. This is a proposal that I HEAVILY encourage the moderators, admins, and Dames to consider. Damian, I will talk to you if you want about this, and I know you don't like it when I start talking about the board and my role, but I feel very passionately about this.

I call upon the admins of the board to create a Religion folder in Forums Stuff, and for it to be modded by SpiderPoet, whom I think everyone can agree is a very rational, neutral, thoughtful, and fair-minded person when it comes to discussing religion.

I believe this is the way to allow for religious disscussion, and therefore also allow those who wish to not be a part of it to have that option to as visibily see it.

I can do no more than to present this and ask everyone to weigh my thoughts very heavily, too deeply consider them. I have a hard time when we act like assholes and lose very good posters, and we just lost a few.

We are not DDT, we aren't WDI, we're TSM. While other forums give us alot of flack, some of it is deserved. However, I think an action like such that I am proposing would look well in the eyes of others

Thanks for your time,

Stephen Popick

TSM Co-Founder

January 26, 2003

I think that's an excellent proposal. I second it.

January 26, 2003

Blah, regular threads will still be infested with people who flame bait religion such as this thread as ericmm did. It won't change. I cannot speak for SP but I do not think that is what he wanted to do with this post.

--Rob

January 26, 2003

Perhaps it won't change, but if we have a folder for that, we have cause to tell them to take it elsewhere. And barring that, ban everybody.

January 26, 2003

I don't think banning everyone is the solution. Although I do not get along with alot of posters here, they make this board diverse and I would not want to see anyone banned, except that girl who insulted dames with rascist remarks, she deserved it. I think the only way to solve the problem is through logical and rational conversation. Let's see what happens. BTW no direspect to spiderpoet, because he is the man but, I think a person like Flyboy or Kotzenjunge should be next in line to be a mod. That's just my opinion.

--Rob

January 26, 2003

I've always found that dumb sass. If someone is flat out leaving then he should make a goodbye thread.

No, it's both a cry for attention and pointless (the person making the thread supposedly won't see it, anyway). The only time I can see it being warranted is when the person's leaving is beyond their control. Just because something offended them here is not a good reason.

January 26, 2003

SP isn't totally leaving anyway. And he was just going to be mod of that folder. I agree he shouldn't be a free roaming mod, just because he hasn't been here long enough.

January 26, 2003

That's quite the proposal, Popick. I'd be up for it but I'm also not going to push for it. If something like that folder were created and I were asked to tackle it, I would readily accept it.

I know the people here are intelligent, rational, and able to discuss things well. It's such a passionate subject, though, on both sides. Some people seem to have a real vendetta against God or the Church or whatever. And some Christians can be pretty pushy about it, too. I think the problem lies in compassion, and that's an even bigger problem for those who claim Christ than those who don't.

While ultimately if some folk on both sides just thought seriously about what they were typing before posting it, the problem would be pretty much solved. And having a forum to contain it might not be such a bad idea, regardless of the moderator (as long as it's a fair person for all concerned).

After thinking about it, I might not be holding back as much as I was planning to. I suppose the best way to figure out how to navigate difficult subjects is to simply explore them and blaze a trail. Which, I have little problem attempting to do that when the opportunity presents itself.

SP -- somewhat thoughtful.

January 26, 2003

While I respect SP's decision (and am glad he'll still be around in at least some capacity on OAOAST), I don't think a religious folder is the answer.

I have a couple reasons for this:

1) Up until very recently, there hadn't been any religious threads/discussion at all, barring the occasional "Islams = Bad. Koran preaches hate. Let's bomb the Middle East!" thread in C.E.

2) You think the C.E. folder can get hostile? Imagine how bad a religious folder would get. Every thread would turn into Christians vs. Atheists vs. Jews vs. Muslims. I'd love to say that we'd all be enlightened by such interesting discussion, but look at our track record with religious threads.

As opposed to the "HE'S A GHEY CHRISTIAN BAN HIM~!" idea, I personally don't think that'd ever happen to SpiderPoet because he doesn't throw around his Christianity and/or act superior because of it. I won't name names, but personally, whenever ANYONE, majority or minority, flaunts one of their personal traits just to annoy/bother people (whether knowing it does so or not), they need to re-evaluate their posting habits. I mean, you don't see AnnieEclectic bragging about how she's a lesbian in every post, or IDrinkRatsMilk claiming his opinion on a subject is somehow more valid because he's a sex god. It's that kind of attitude, not the fact that said poster is Christian, that causes some of the "Christian hate" towards certain posters. I guarantee if I took the same flamboyant, argumentative state towards my Judaism they'd turn into "OMG HE'S A JEW BAN HIM UP THE CHIMNEY~!" threads. And that's my piece on that topic, uninformed and barely coherent as always.

January 26, 2003

. BTW no direspect to spiderpoet, because he is the man but, I think a person like Flyboy or Kotzenjunge should be next in line to be a mod. That's just my opinion.

--Rob

Now I like Kotz (and Flyboy) but the next mod should be SASS. Peopleshouldn't be made mods because of post count or I'd be an Admin.

January 26, 2003

Just because of some dumbasses on this board we should have a whole folder??

Ummmm no

January 26, 2003

A Religion folder?

That would go over about as well as making up a "HHH Is God" folder here or making Anglesault an admin.

Sorry but that idea would just open up a can of worms that no one would be happy with in the long run.

January 26, 2003

Popick, I like you, and you seem like a nice guy, but what 'power' do you have exactly? As far as I can tell, you contributed some money to Dames to help him get the site off the ground. And while I (and I'm sure many other people here) thank you for that, that doesn't give you supreme power over the boards.

As for creating a religion folder, I think it would cause more harm than good, and like Sass said, would open up a can of worms that could end up pissing off a lot of people.

January 26, 2003

Just because of some dumbasses on this board we should have a whole folder??

Ummmm no

Yes bob you sum up exactly why we do not get along with that statement right there. Congrats buddy, I'm glad to see the writing school is working out for you. Anyway CWM, obviously it is not about post count otherwise I would have said you, and it is obviously not about favorites because em and Kotz have never agreed on anything EVER. Those two were just my opinion on who would make good moderators, that's all.

--Rob

No one will care but....

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