Guest Tim Cooke Posted January 27, 2003 Report Posted January 27, 2003 It's not nitpicking certain aspects of the match. It's the thought process of people saying the match is not as good because of body work being dropped in favor of moving on with the match. Benoit's brief leg work was meant to fill time in a smart way. People knew Angle's leg was injured. Benoit took the oppurtunity to entertain and fill the time with teases of a firmiliar submission hold. Once he finally got the hold locked in, it popped the crowd, didn't get Angle to submit, time to move on. Now if he worked the leg over like he did on RVD's arm at Summerslam and then just whipped out a crossface for the finish, that would be a MAJOR problem. Tim, thinking that those Smackdown tag matches wouuld have been much better if it showed the kind of smart work that Benoit displayed in this match.
Guest Lord of The Curry Posted January 27, 2003 Report Posted January 27, 2003 Well I don't do star ratings anymore. All I can say was that this was my personal favorite Benoit/Angle match. Why? Because it was clean. I don't think there hasn't ever been a Benoit/Angle match where something screwy wasn't going on(run-ins, feet on the ropes, etc.). Backlash 2001. Angle taps to the Crossface in the middle of the ring. Having said that, this match is probably my favorite of all their battles, seconded by their WMX7 match. The only thing that allows this match the go-ahead in my mind is that it didn't feel as rushed and the finish was crisp and clean with no caffeine. The psychology of their WMX7 match was much stronger but the workrate, heat and finish of the Rumble match put it at #1 for me.
Guest Brian Posted January 27, 2003 Report Posted January 27, 2003 By working the leg and exposing Angle's weakness, Angle is going to have to take a total defense down there. Besides, without atcually getting a submission he has to go after what he does best and what works.
Guest RavishingRickRudo Posted January 27, 2003 Report Posted January 27, 2003 The psychology could also work like: -Benoit tried attacking the knees with the sharpshooter> it didn't work, so why bother doing it? OR -Benoit doesn't want to take the easy way out, he is stubborn, he want's to end it with the crossface - everything else is secondary.
Chunk Posted January 27, 2003 Author Report Posted January 27, 2003 Benoit doesn't want to take the easy way out, he is stubborn, he want's to end it with the crossface - everything else is secondary. I prefer to think of it that way. Benoit's brief leg work was meant to fill time in a smart way. People knew Angle's leg was injured. Benoit took the oppurtunity to entertain and fill the time with teases of a firmiliar submission hold. Once he finally got the hold locked in, it popped the crowd, didn't get Angle to submit, time to move on. Why time to move on? Thats my whole point. If YOU were in a wwe title match and you came *this* close to winning with a submission on the knee, would you change your game plan and move to the shoulder, or would you try and work on the knee a little more, before hitting the knee based submission a final time? Now if he worked the leg over like he did on RVD's arm at Summerslam and then just whipped out a crossface for the finish, that would be a MAJOR problem. Yeah, of course. But he didn't. Thats why I originally said that this was close to a ***** (infact I gave it ****), but because of the minor imperfections (that I feel matter) I wouldnt give it the full 5 stars. ChUnK!
Guest CoreyLazarus416 Posted January 27, 2003 Report Posted January 27, 2003 I still like the aforementioned "make Angle think about the knee" idea about the psychology, because it's a classic rope-a-dope style.
Guest RavishingRickRudo Posted January 27, 2003 Report Posted January 27, 2003 Or they didn't want to do knee work because Angles knee is legit hurt and they didn't want to further the injury.
Chunk Posted January 28, 2003 Author Report Posted January 28, 2003 Or they didn't want to do knee work because Angles knee is legit hurt and they didn't want to further the injury. Yeah, I thought about that aswell. But why then, did Lesnar attack his knee against the ring post? I would have had him take out and arm, or rib etc. That way, Angle could have sold the injury and had it worked over in matches, whilst still allowing his real injury to recover. ChUnK!
Guest saturnmark4life Posted January 28, 2003 Report Posted January 28, 2003 That's what worries me about injury angles, they could further the injury and fuck everything over. Still, it was pretty cool...
Guest Tim Cooke Posted January 28, 2003 Report Posted January 28, 2003 "Why time to move on? Thats my whole point. If YOU were in a wwe title match and you came *this* close to winning with a submission on the knee, would you change your game plan and move to the shoulder, or would you try and work on the knee a little more, before hitting the knee based submission a final time?" This works but it can also be interpreted as, weaken him up so he goes down easier, making the corssface that much more effective. The smart work that was showcased in the match makes up more than enough for any "wrong doings" that might be seen in the transition from leg work. This factors in even more since WWE matches never use body part selling throughout the entire match. BTW, your snowflakes are a tad high for Rock v Hogan at WM but it was *very* smartly worked. Tim
Guest OSIcon Posted January 28, 2003 Report Posted January 28, 2003 I interpreted the sharpshooter teases and payoff differently. Benoit didn't work over the knee at all in the first five minutes that lead up to the sharpshooter. If he did and then forgot about the knee afterwards, I may be inclined to agree with you that the psychology could have been tighter. However, he didn't work over the knee. Weakening the knee wasn't his focus. His focus seemed to be more just getting the sharpshooter on. It was as if Benoit was hoping that Angle's knee wasn't at a 100 percent and that the preasure from the sharpshooter would be too much for it to take. When things didn't work out that, Benoit moved on. Angle's knee was strong enough to withstand the pain the sharpshooter applys to it, so he moved onto other strategy. The sharpshooter came off to me as a one move strategy for Benoit: Hope that the knee is so weak that Angle will have to give up due to the preassure the move puts on it. That didn't work, onto Plan B, C, ect. That's why I liked it so much. It wasn't just generic "work over the knee with submisison after submission". It was deeper then that.
Guest Brian Posted January 28, 2003 Report Posted January 28, 2003 That was very smartly worked match, like Brock/Rock.
Guest Jack Tunney Posted January 28, 2003 Report Posted January 28, 2003 I've never liked the idea of working on a kneee before the sharpshooter.It's designed to hurt your back.When my brother and I were younger (actually it was last week...) he'd put it on me and it does absolutely nothing to your knees,but it destroys your back when done right.
Chunk Posted January 28, 2003 Author Report Posted January 28, 2003 "Why time to move on? Thats my whole point. If YOU were in a wwe title match and you came *this* close to winning with a submission on the knee, would you change your game plan and move to the shoulder, or would you try and work on the knee a little more, before hitting the knee based submission a final time?" This works but it can also be interpreted as, weaken him up so he goes down easier, making the corssface that much more effective. I think this all just comes down to how you interpret a match, and what your personal preferences are. BTW, your snowflakes are a tad high for Rock v Hogan at WM but it was *very* smartly worked. Although, that makes the above comment useless, as surely it would be down to my personal preference and interpretation. It's like me saying to you, that you shouldn't eat chocolate all the time, because I dont like it all that much. ChUnK!
Guest Hayabusa Moleman Posted January 28, 2003 Report Posted January 28, 2003 Hey Tim Cooke, out of curiousity, what was your star rating for Rock/Hogan?
Guest Tim Cooke Posted January 29, 2003 Report Posted January 29, 2003 ***1/4, easy match of the show. One of the top 5 WWE matches of 2002 and I saw everything. Benoit/Angle v Misterio/Edge (No Mercy) BookDust v Christian/Jericho (Last Raw 2002) Rock v Hogan (WM) From there, it gets kind of messy. I *liked* Benoit/Angle from Unforgiven but not nearly as much as the 3 matches listed above. Rock v Lesnar was another smart match around *** but I am not sure it belongs above. The Smackdown tags were all thrown together and none stick out as being more than solid. Tim
TheOriginalOrangeGoblin Posted January 29, 2003 Report Posted January 29, 2003 Rock/Hogan sucked workrate wise but it is the PERFECT example of ***** booking. Basically the match gets **, if that. for the workrate but ***** for the story told, booking, crowd etc. Overall i'd give it **** just because it cannot be duplicated as Tim said.
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