Oh no! My ThigHHH!

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

How many wrestlers MAKE someone though?

How often does one person make another into a mega-star?

I agree with you pinjockey. However, i am using THIS argument to counter the one that FOLEY MADE TRIPLE H which is UNTRUE. That's all i want to point out. Im with u on the fact that YES, Foley sure as hell made Hunter look good, but did he make him everything he was? Don't make me laugh.

 

But just realise im on your side with 99% of what your saying.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I guess it's just a coincidence that HHH got his credibility after the feud with Foley, which he couldn't get before. My mistake.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

Mick Foley HELPED make The Rock a #1 heel

THANK YOU

 

That's the point i've been trying to make.

[Guest Anglesault]

QUOTE (bob_barron @ Feb 2 2003, 05:02 AM)

 

Mick Foley HELPED make The Rock a #1 heel

 

THANK YOU

 

That's the point i've been trying to make

 

But if Foley wasn't there... who would have helped to make the Rock a true heel? Rocky was getting cheered before that feud.

 

 

Now Hunter. If Mick Foley would have never put HHH over as the Cactus Killer, he would be NOTHING. He can fuck Stephanie all he wants, but he needs that one thing to push him over the hump so the fans buy the sex-induced push. Foley was that.

 

Look at Test. Test fucks Shane McMahon three times a day and constantly gets pushed. But since Test is useless, he can't get that ONE THING to make that connection with the fans.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

QUOTE (bob_barron @ Feb 2 2003, 05:02 AM)

 

Mick Foley HELPED make The Rock a #1 heel

 

THANK YOU

 

That's the point i've been trying to make

 

But if Foley wasn't there... who would have helped to make the Rock a true heel? Rocky was getting cheered before that feud.

 

 

Now Hunter. If Mick Foley would have never put HHH over as the Cactus Killer, he would be NOTHING. He can fuck Stephanie all he wants, but he needs that one thing to push him over the hump so the fans buy the sex-induced push. Foley was that.

 

Look at Test. Test fucks Shane McMahon three times a day and constantly gets pushed. But since Test is useless, he can't get that ONE THING to make that connection with the fans.

So your stating there isn't anyone BUT Foley who could have made Rock and Triple H? If Foley wasn't there, Rock would be a face, HHH would be a midcarder and all would be right with the world?

 

I'm not going to even touch that...

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I think I get what you're saying - that others could have done what Foley did.

 

The fact is, no one else did. I doubt anyone else on the roster would have taken 2x4s wrapped in barbed wire, being planted onto thumbtacks face first - twice, or crashed through the top of the cell, and did the job three PPVs in a row, all to make one man look like a million bucks.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

I think I get what you're saying - that others could have done what Foley did.

 

The fact is, no one else did. I doubt anyone else on the roster would have taken 2x4s wrapped in barbed wire, being planted onto thumbtacks face first - twice, or crashed through the top of the cell, and did the job three PPVs in a row, all to make one man look like a million bucks.

But you dont NEED to do that! You saying you need to be a maniac to get a guy over in wrestling...THIS IS WRESTLING ISN'T IT?

 

Did Bret Hart snap his body in half making Austin look like a God in '97? Hell no, and look what it did for the man.

 

SOMEONE would have came along and made either Rock or HHH look good, whether it was Foley or not.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

I don't know why you have to quote posts that are directly above yours...

 

That's mighty idealistic to assume that "someone" would have came along and made Rock and HHH look good. I won't even ask who that someone could have possibly been.

 

I still stand by my opinion that H came out of the Foley feud 1000x better and more credible than when he went in, and if you don't agree, then whatever.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

Well you stick to your opinion and i'll stand by mine.

 

I quote posts because other people post while i'm typing a response, and i want to ensure the person knows i am talking to them directly. Hope you can sleep at night now.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

2) True, but you seem to make out that failing PPV"s and the fact the WWE blows right now is ALL because of Triple H.

 

I never said that once. I have said that HHH isn't a draw - and cited low/falling ratings, attendance, buyrates as examples of this. Draws tend to, you know, draw fans in. I have said that HHH has been in some bad angles - his 'wedding' and 'pregnancy' angle with steph, the lucy the dog escapade, him 'turning' on HBK, Katie Vick, Push ups and Pose downs... BAD... I blame the overall WWF content on Vince McMahon because he hasn't a single clue as to what the fans want.

 

Benoit & Angle main evented the Rumble, as well as Brock Lesnar main eventing his PPV's when he was champion. HHH has not stepped in and said 'Fuck you, Im HHH, piss off, the main event spot is mine" to these guys.

 

I am not one to use internet reports that I myself can't readily see on TV but according to some HHH wanted the WCW belt because the IC belt was too low... His matches are always a 'featured match up'. Angle and Benoit put his match w. Steiner to shame and I bet it pisses him off that it did. You anti-HHHaters think that (we) believe that HHH just says stuff like "this main event spot is mine" or "I want Jericho gone", but that's not the case at all. HHH is a smart guy, he knows how to work his way around things. The most infamous example of this is his match vs. Jericho where Jericho won the title. He could have easily spun it as "the fans weren't cheering for his win, they were cheering for my loss" and he could say that Jericho is "not ready for the main event because his style is too high flying".

 

I don't doubt that Angle & Benoit can draw, because they are both unbelieveable wrestlers who deserve every cent they earn, however to state that just because they're not Triple H the company is failing is just wrong. If people were so crazy over either guy, they'd watch wouldn't they? They'd sit through HHH just to see the other guys. However, that's not happening, and it's hardly Triple H's fault.

 

Did I ever say it was. I don't think that HHH is the devil - I think he doesn't return on the investment Vince puts in him and is holding on to his spot for dear life. I give him big-ups for playing the political game right, but I personally think it sucks cause it effects other wrestlers and what I watch on TV. I think he should be putting over guys right now, but he isn't, and I don't see that happening in the near future. HHH still thinks he has value, even though he is injury prone.

 

3) Vince is boss, that's all i'll say.

 

And steph is his daughter...And HHH is bangin steph...thats all there needs to be said.

 

4) Is this the old 'Foley made HHH' argument? Arn't you forgetting that Foley had thousands of matches with OTHER wrestlers who never became Triple H? In his prime, HHH was better than Foley ever was. Foley is a glorified bump machine and nothing else. There's a reason he had to retire at the age of 35 (or however old he was).

 

No, I am saying that his parody of Mick was successful and he would want to recreate that with Kane. That's strike 2, make another wrongful assumption and I'll call this whole thing pointless because it will be clear you don't even want to listen to what I am saying.

 

5) Agreed, and i know i'd much prefer to see Booker T with that belt right now.

 

I think so too. I actually find most of bookers matches to be painful to watch, but the crowd responds to him and want to see him at the top of the mountain. Give it to em.

 

However who's to complain when your putting on a decent match with a friend? So HHH & HBK are PROBABLY into mutual anal sex, big deal, they work well together, why bitch about it?

 

Bitch about what? HHH and HBK having a pointless feud?

 

6) Triple H was once one of the greatest workers in the company.

 

I'd put Hunter at like #20.

 

The guy is only 33 or so years old and i believe its possible for him to return to what he was, as Austin said in RAW Magazine 'drop 25 pounds and go back to the way you were'.

 

HHH is in love with himself. Did you see how much he enjoyed doing the pose down? Muscles over Matches - it's the way hunter thinks, hell, its the way Vince thinks.

 

Bubba will never be anything special, he's good in the midcards but come on, i hardly see him rocking WrestleMania with Lesnar in 5 years.

 

That doesn't matter. His whole personae was he shouldn't be in the main event, that he is blue collar, that he is the everyman - like the WWF fan - so shouldn't he go over the pompous, arrogant, snobbish champ? I know Austin did. Of course, I am not comparing Bubba to Austin on an in-ring basis, but in terms of storyline and character - it shouldn't have ended like it did (it ended ?).

 

Kane's pretty much the same and Jericho, as i stated earlier, isn't half as great as he used to be

 

Kane was good before? The fans like Kane and that's the most important thing. I don't get the whole purpose of building up a feud where the face loses and the heel wins and then it just fades away - if you look back, it seems to be a common thread with HHH.

 

and HOLD ON, didn't HHH make Jericho look like a fuckin' star back in 2000?

 

Jericho, before his feud with HHH, was 1 or 2 spots away from the main event. After his feud with HHH, he was 4/5 places away from the main event. HHH did not make Jericho look like a star one bit because it took Jericho another year to get to the main event scene. If HHH made Jericho into a star, why wasn't he kept in the main event? Why did his rise get cut off right after his feud with HHH?

 

Sure did to me. Just because a man loses, doesn't mean he is buried, you know?

 

WM: Jericho was 2 spots away from the main event

BACKLASH: Jericho was 1 spot away from the ME

Insurrextion: Jericho was 1 spot away from the ME

Judgement Day: Jericho was 2 spots away from the ME

KOTR: Jericho lost first round, HHH didn’t job the title.*

Fully Loaded: Jericho vs. HHH was 1 spot away from the ME

Summerslam: Jericho is 4 spots away from the main event

Unforgiven: Jericho was 4 spots away from the ME

No Mercy: Jericho was 6 spots away from the ME

Survivor Series: Jericho was 6 Spots away from the ME

Armageddon: Jericho was 4 Spots away from the ME

RR: Jericho was 3 Spots away from the ME

NWO: Jericho was 5 Spots away from the ME

WM X7: Jericho was *10* Spots away from the ME

[Guest Anglesault]

Rick, the ONLY argument I see there is with X-Seven. Yes, There is no reason fo him to be in the midcard, and starting off the show eith that match was stupid

 

BUT

 

In theory, the opening spot isn't that terrible. It's a very important part of the show, get the fans into it. Honestly, I'd say the real shithole place is like second or third match on card.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Rick, the ONLY argument I see there is with X-Seven. Yes, There is no reason fo him to be in the midcard, and starting off the show eith that match was stupid

 

BUT

 

In theory, the opening spot isn't that terrible. It's a very important part of the show, get the fans into it. Honestly, I'd say the real shithole place is like second or third match on card.

Isn't that the spot Test usually wrestles in?

[Guest Anglesault]

Why do you think it's the shithole spot? if you are in that match, chances are, you're facing Test.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Wrestlemania Curtain Jerkers:

 

Tito Santana beat The Executioner (Buddy Rose) via submission.

 

Don Muraco DCO Paul Orndorff (4:10).

 

Rick Martel & Tom Zenk beat Bob Orton & Don Muraco (5:37) when Martel pinned Muraco.

 

Bad News Brown won a "battle royal" (10:40) which included: Ron Bass, Brian Blair, Jim Brunzell, Danny Davis, Bret Hart, Hillbilly Jim, Sam Houston, Junkyard Dog, Jim Niedhart, Ken Patera, Jim Powers, Harley Race, Paul Roma, Jacques Rougeau, Raymond Rougeau, Sika, George Steele, Nikolia Volkoff, and Boris Zuhkov.

 

Hercules pinned Haku (6:57).

 

Rick Martel pinned Koko B. Ware (3:51).

 

The Rockers beat The Barbarian & Haku (10:41) when Michaels pinned Haku.

 

Shawn Michaels pinned Tito Santana (10:39).

 

Tatanka beat Shawn Michaels (18:13) via countout.

 

Owen Hart pinned Bret Hart (20:21).

 

Lex Luger & Davey Smith beat Jacob & Eli Blue (6:34) when Smith made the pin.

 

Vader, Owen Hart, & Davey Smith beat Jake Roberts, Yokozuna, & Ahmed Johnson (12:51) when Vader pinned Roberts

 

The Headbangers beat The New Blackjacks, The Godwinns, and Phil Lafon & Doug Furnas (10:39) in a "four corners" match. The Blackjacks were DQed (4:37). Furnas & Lafon were counted out (5:00). Mosh pinned Phineas (10:39).

 

LOD 2000 won a "tag team battle royal" (8:19). The other teams in the match were: Savio Vega & Miguel Perez, Recon & Sniper, Chainz & Bradshaw, D-Lo Brown & Mark Henry, The Quebecers, The Rock-n-Roll Express, Jesus Castillo & Jose Estrada, The Headbangers, Scott Taylor & Brian Christopher, Steve Blackman & Flash Funk, The Godwinns, Skull & Eight Ball, Farooq & Kama, and Bob Holly & Bart Gunn.

 

Bob Holly beat Al Snow and Billy Gunn (7:06) in a "hardcore triangle" match to win the WWF Hardcore Title

 

Big Bossman & Bull Buchanon beat D-Lo Brown & The Godfather (with Ice T) (9:05) when Buchanon pinned Brown.

 

WWF I-C Champ Chris Jericho pinned William Regal (7:08).

 

Rob Van Dam pinned William Regal (6:19) to win the WWF I-C Title.

 

-I know I know I know - it's an honour to be in the same spot as Koko B. Ware and Jacob and Eli Blu... My mistake.

 

While the argument of 'you are the first out there, the crowd is the hottest for you' may be practical, it is not often practiced in the WWF.

[Guest the pinjockey]

I wonder if Regal will join HBK in the threepeat curtain jerking club.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I was wondering that too

[Guest Anglesault]

Point taken and dually noted.

[Guest Anglesault]

It's pretty likely. Storm/Regal probably should be early in the card.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Why do you think it's the shithole spot? if you are in that match, chances are, you're facing Test.

Yeah, wondering if you meant it as a shithole spot because it's kinda the "Tuesday" of the card, or simply because it's been Test's home for so long.

[Guest Anglesault]

Why do you think it's the shithole spot? if you are in that match, chances are, you're facing Test.

Yeah, wondering if you meant it as a shithole spot because it's kinda the "Tuesday" of the card, or simply because it's been Test's home for so long.

Pretty much that it's the Tuesday Spot, but because it is, that makes it Test's home. COMPLEX LAYERS~!

[Guest AndrewTS]

Okay, thought so, since knowledge of card placement isn't something I'm good at. Glad to see it's a case of him belonging there than figuratively "marking his territory" there.

[Guest AndrewTS]

UYI: BTW, how do you explain that one year after winning the Undisputed Title, Jericho was jobbing to John Cena in what I think was the opener. Not only that, but in a segment leading up to it, HHH had things changed a bit. Instead of Jericho decking Vince as planned, HHH decided no one else but Hogan should touch Vince in that HOT fued of theirs that only just now is even being continued.

 

So, instead of that, Jericho got bitchslapped and KNOCKED OUT by Cena. Not by a chairshot, a haymaker, or a stiff kick. A SLAP!! A fucking SLAP!!!

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

UYI: BTW, how do you explain that one year after winning the Undisputed Title, Jericho was jobbing to John Cena in what I think was the opener. Not only that, but in a segment leading up to it, HHH had things changed a bit. Instead of Jericho decking Vince as planned, HHH decided no one else but Hogan should touch Vince in that HOT fued of theirs that only just now is even being continued.

 

So, instead of that, Jericho got bitchslapped and KNOCKED OUT by Cena. Not by a chairshot, a haymaker, or a stiff kick. A SLAP!! A fucking SLAP!!!

Why would JERICHO punk out Vince? They were both heels. It was Cena who was meant to attack him, not Jericho.

 

Hogan decking Vince was right for business, why build up a rivalry only to have a newcomer make the boss look like a pushover? It was right for business, even if it didnt end up working.

 

Get the facts right next time

[Guest Anglesault]

First of all, Vince is a man who has been destroyed by women, retired wrestlers, and anyone and everyone on earth. Cena hitting him wouldn't kill the Hogan feud.

 

Secondly, HOW IS ANY OF THIS HUNTER'S BUSINESS? HE IS A WRESTLER, NOT A BOOKER. Maybe if he concentrated on himself instead of making Jericho look like a bitch, he wouldn't be the useless piece of shit he currently is. If he devoted one-tenth of the time that he spends fucking with people's careers and attending booking meetings to getting himself in ringshape, maybe his matches wouldn't be embarassments.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

I'm sure in his mind that it is in is his best interest that the company works to the best of its ability. So maybe what Triple H thinks is very different to how we see things, but i sincerely think he is helping out and doing his best to make the product better.

 

I'm sure he was just trying to help. Besides, Vince doesn't have to listen to him does he? He runs the show, i doubt Hunter would be offended if Vince DID HIS JOB and went with what he thought was best.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

What irks me here is that he said HHH was a better worker than Foley. That is the most laughable thing I've ever heard. On his best day HHH couldn't hold Foley's jock. Foley know's more about how to put together a great match than HHH could ever hope to know.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

That's your opinion. Triple H had psychology when he was in his prime. What the fuck did FOLEY do? Get the Undertaker to throw him through cages. Please...

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Have you ever even seen Foley wrestle before he got tossed off the cage? The guy knows what he's doing. He's got it down pat and he's had more great matches than HHH has ever had.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

Have you ever even seen Foley wrestle before he got tossed off the cage? The guy knows what he's doing. He's got it down pat and he's had more great matches than HHH has ever had.

I've seen the majority of Foley's matches while in his prime and i'd take a Triple H match, in his prime, over it anyday. But that's just my opinion and i respect the fact you dig Foley's shit, i just don't like the guy.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Well you also said pretty much that HHH had more psychology than Foley. Well that's outright bullshit right there. HHH's matches in his "prime" had wishy-washy psychology that was all over the place. Foley's matches however always told a story. Hell he even had great psychology for his hardcore brawls. This isn't really subjective because it's blatantly obvious to anyone in the business or out of it that Foley can outwork HHH. Just listening to Foley talk about what goes into a good wrestling match and then watching the story in his matches you can see right there.

Sure you may dig HHH more than Foley but don't say he's a better worker. It's simply not true.