Brock/Angle guaranteed to be ****+?

[Guest The Shocker]

Sorry for disappointing for being a rookie. I'll try harder to act like I don't know what wrestling is in the future.

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

I never thought some guy named AlwaysPissedOff would be the one to welcome me

 

Thank you kindly

Heh... I just realized the irony of that myself.

 

I can assure you that I'm nothing like my username... mostly...

 

 

[Guest The Shocker]

It's fun to be pissed off sometime. But I'm a lover not a fighter.

 

It's shocking, but it's damn true.

 

back to topic: I don't care if Brock and Angle mud-wrestle at Wrestlemania. It will most likely be better than anything I have seen from Raw recently. Have you guys bleed from the eyes from watching that like I have?

[Guest AlwaysPissedOff]

Oh hell yeah. I'm still dreading Steiner/HHH, Part 2 coming up at the PPV. I need to go ahead and stock up the alcohol because there's no way I can make it through that match sober.

[Guest TheGame2705]

I define the total package as Lex Luger har har har....

 

anyway when is the last time Angle used psychology for his ankle lock and Lesnar used it at all?

[Guest Just call me Dan]

I'd say Brock used great psychology when Bob Holly tried to do his bully routine and Brock dropped him on his head....

 

I don't remember Angle using too much psychology with the ankle lock, but what can you do? He locks it on at the most opportune times and will not let off re-applying it until you submit. Good enough for me.

 

Brock's psychology is just kicking ass. He doesn't really use submissions. there is really no psychology for the F5. It is just the knockout blow. Do you see Austin using psychology for the Stunner, Rock for the Rock Bottom or Taker for the Last Ride? No, because those are all finishing moves.

[Guest Brian]

When they were putting over the bearhug, he did a good job working over the ribs. He usually does decent in that respect but it's generally just his general offense.

[Guest AndrewTS]

To The Shocker: Welcome to the board--however, your current avatar is a bit overused. You stand out more when you have a unique one--just a tad bit of advice.

 

About the SSP: We will likely never see it. If it isn't at Mania, it won't be used at all. Face it, it's not WWE style for a big guy like Brock to fly. And hell, the last time we had a champ with a high-flying style was HBK.

 

And Angle doesn't count just because of one move he rarely uses these days.

 

As for the anklelock psychology--it doesn't need to be built up. In real life, you can apply it, and really hurt someone and make them submit. If not done by a pro like Angle or...Shamrock...it can practically cripple someone.

 

You don't need to stomp on someone's ankle a dozen times to build it up like other submissions. And sure, you can argue that other submissions don't need built up either, but from Shamrock's use all the way to Angle today, it's been a submission that can come out of nowhere and then end the match--like a submission version of the Diamond Cutter.

 

Most "impact" moves don't need psychology, since the aim is to knock the wind out of your opponent. The match beforehand is to wear out the opponent, so that is psychology. However, psychology can be used more generally to add to a match.

 

For example, say Austin was wrestling Angle, for the sake of argument. Angle may decide to stomp away on, and lock submissions, onto the "Stunner" arm. While we've seen Austin do double-Stunners, the aim would be to weaken the one he's most used to using it with, and if he used it (let's face it, execution of a finisher tends to become a habit, so in a high-pressure situation, assuming we're in kayfabe, it would be hard to remember to change the way you did the move) it wouldn't have quite the bang a full-strength one would have. That could mean the difference between a long two and a three if he did hit it.

 

However, when I see Demott working Crash Holly's arm in a jobber squash, with Crash not even getting some jabs or some offense in early on--that's shitty psychology. Especially when Demott wins with a Moonsault or Powerbomb or whatever he uses this week.

[Guest AndrewTS]

When they were putting over the bearhug, he did a good job working over the ribs. He usually does decent in that respect but it's generally just his general offense.

Yeah, shame the bear hug is the most move in the world, and the finisher of choice for the most talentless of hosses (Mark Henry, Ted Arcidi, etc).

[Guest The Shocker]

I just thought it looked like he had lightning on his trunks. Geez.

[Guest art_vandelay]

I think Angle-Brock will be great even if the participants themselves don't mesh well. You have a natural rivalry being built up between two amateur wrestlers who have both quickly excelled in pro wrestling, plus I'm sure the booking of the match itself will be perfect.

[Guest NoSelfWorth]

I wonder if they'll be told to tone things down, and given some bs reason why.

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

Well...Savage got ****1/4 outta Hogan...Does that make Lesnar Savagelike?

Whoa, Savage is one of my Top 5 Favorites of all time, but he never had a **** match with Hogan.

 

Only ****+ matches he had, IMO, were with Steamboat WM3, Warrior WM6 and Flair WM8.

[Guest SP-1]

Here's a question: Will Brock have the record for appearing in WrestleMania's main event slot at his FIRST WRESTLEMANIA?

 

Andrew: Your remarks about Angle wearing down Austin's arm gave me an imagining of Benoit doing that and reversing a stunner into a Crossface. It was beautiful and I thank you for the comments that jump started it.

 

Something I remembered from the RAW Anniversary Awards was that Angle won an award for the Moonsault, did he not? Since it's WWE, they will probably never pick up on that again, but it would have been perfect as a catalyst for Brock to begin talking about topping it at Mania and busting out the SSP. Sweet Goodness, how the crowd would pop for that.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Hogan...WM I. Well, it's true, technically.

[Guest SP-1]

True. But Rookie Year? That's like . . . mega-push from hell.

[Guest SP-1]

Not that I'm complaining.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Andrew: Your remarks about Angle wearing down Austin's arm gave me an imagining of Benoit doing that and reversing a stunner into a Crossface. It was beautiful and I thank you for the comments that jump started it.

 

Heheh--you're welcome. I hope that maybe we'll see Austin/Benoit at a PPV before Austin retires, with a finish like that worked in. Now that you mention it, that would be a perfect story for a Austin/Benoit match after all.

 

Something I remembered from the RAW Anniversary Awards was that Angle won an award for the Moonsault, did he not? Since it's WWE, they will probably never pick up on that again, but it would have been perfect as a catalyst for Brock to begin talking about topping it at Mania and busting out the SSP. Sweet Goodness, how the crowd would pop for that.

 

Yeah--like I said, I'd be shocked if we saw the SSP at all in WWE, though.

[Guest Brian]

Hogan and Savage had some really good Spectrum and MSG matches that were up there, better than Mania. Savage definately got the most out of him.

[Guest Fook_Hing_Ho]

Here's a question: Will Brock have the record for appearing in WrestleMania's main event slot at his FIRST WRESTLEMANIA?

Nope. Yokozuna at WM9, Debiase at WM4, Sid at WM8.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

Savage and Warrior at WM6? It was WM7.

[Guest TheGame2705]

Which reminds me that Yokozuna had quite the huge push. Beating Virgil at SurSer 92, Throwing out Savage to win the Rumble, and beating Bret at WM 9. Of course he jobbed to Hogan for whatever reason but....

[Guest Tim Cooke]

A lot of people mark over the fact that Angle and Lesnar are both guys with amatuer backgrounds and that will make the match good.

 

That could make for a fun, if not a bit useless, part of the match unless played out right. Unless there are specific rules to the match which say 1 count pinfalls count as something (like an overall point system to the match), then the amateur section will most likely be:

 

a- a section devoted to impressing people without much logic behind it

 

or

 

b- a section where they open up to find holes in each other.

 

I would venture to guess that A would be the right pick since Brock has not had to use his amateur skills on anyone else ever. Angle, for the most part, outside of the Benoit and Guerrero matches, uses normal wrestling holds and moves to go for the win.

 

Knowing the WEE, they will open up with this section and people will praise it.

 

But does it really deserve all the praise?

 

Tim

 

(Ric Flair and Barry Windham once did an angle of who was the better amateur wrestler at a wrestling exhibition with Gordon Solie announcing. This type of angle would work much better to connect the Amateur work to the real work.)

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

Yes, but that shouldn't be the main event of mania. I think they should both go out, do the big badass face on a roll vs. the smart skilled heel in a pro-style match, have Brock go over, then have Angle go off about how he's the top dog on the mat, and go from there with that.

[Guest Choken One]

Which reminds me that Yokozuna had quite the huge push. Beating Virgil at SurSer 92, Throwing out Savage to win the Rumble, and beating Bret at WM 9. Of course he jobbed to Hogan for whatever reason but....

To send the fans home happy and put Yoko over more when he beats him.

[Guest Brian]

Tim I totally agree. It's a match where themat work should really be based on a deeper story (Angle's speed vs. Brock power, Angle being the olympic wrestler) and then work up to the ropes (unstoppable monster vs. sneaky, smart heel) and tie everything in (with the F-5 vs. Angle Slam, SSP vs. Moonsault, and bearhug vs. anklelock playing in), but chances are that's not going to happen. It's a real shame.

[Guest Rob Edwards]

It might actually be useful to roll out the old 3 stages of hell gimmick here, say the first fall was amateur wrestling (advantage the olympic champ), the 2nd fall was a streetfight (advantage Brock) and then build up the bearhug in time for mania to make the 3rd fall submissions only

 

Just an idea

[Guest Brian]

Nah. Putting the focus on the mat work means a lot of pressure and really takes away from it. I mean, it's worked and all so it's not going to come off real and Kurt's has little experience actually carrying the mat and Brock has none working the mat except for the Southern-lite bearhug work.

[Guest Rob Edwards]

yeah but only the first 10 minutes (if that) would be mat driven, then you can do the wwe style streetfight (to perk the crowd), before the olfd going after body parts submission work, hell if Brock won the streetfight with a sledgehammer to the back or something then you'd be halfway there already

[Guest Brian]

Still, I think the fans are still not geared for that first fall and neither are the wrestlers. It's just a whole different mind-set. I can understand the third fall since the match should be extremely submission driven, but IMO, the second fall is another problem since this is a match that is really non-WWE in form and it should really take place in the ring the whole time.