RAW: Was it really all that great, really?

[Guest Downhome]

First off, I liked RAW, obviously. It was the best RAW in a number of weeks, but the best RAW in YEARS!? I'm assuming that many of you have totally forgotten about various RAW's over the past few YEARS, but this was FAR from being the best in years. I understand you're excited about a fullfleged heel Rocky, I'm ALL for that and I love it as much as you people. I also understand that you're excited about Booker T looking just fantastic tonight, as I love it just as much as anyone. I also loved the Hurricane rub, that was great also. However, have you actually sat down and thought about this show, what really went down, and actually thought of it as a whole? I did, and I come to the conclusion that it wasn't as specail as everyone is saying, not in my eyes.

 

First off we have the Bishoff/Rocky promo at the begining of the show. I saw great stuff here, but if you ask me it looked like Rocky was taking just a bit too long saying what he had to say. I mean, really, 15 minutes just to say that he's in the Battle Royal? Sure, it showed him that much more of a heel, but it just seemed to take up so much time to me. It was gold though, as Rocky really shined there (hell, he shined all night).

 

After that we are treated to Jazz vs. Jacqueline in whick Jacqueline looked to almost get hurt after a blown spot. I am 100% AGAINST having the women's match be the first match of the show, all that does is hurt the crowd, especially after coming off of Rocky. Besides, this match did nothing, but the same thing we've seen for weeks. We KNOW that they don't like each other, OK DAMNIT, now progress the feud!

 

We then are forced to watch Test be a moron with a bunch of women for no fuckin reason at all, WAY too much time on this bullshit. There is no reason for it, it wont help anyone, and it's totally pointless.

 

At this time, we are 45 or so minutes into the show, have seen only ONE match, and that was a sub-par women's match.

 

We see the Goldust interview next, and it's ok for what it is. I dont' know what to think about this, I really don't. I don't see why he can't just be a badass trying to get revenge, instead of going borderline making fun of a very serious and sensitive illness. I laughed at it though, so what the hell do I know? As I said, I don't really know what to think about it.

 

Next up, guess fucking what? Yep, Kane and RVD are still together for NO FUCKING REASON going against the same guys once again. Seemingly, RVD/Kane are back together, and it's pissing me off. Either DO SOMETHING with this angle, or just split up RVD and Kane and NEVER mention them together again, just drop it. Is anyone actually caring about their eventual feud?

 

Then we have Booker/Steiner vs. Evolution in what I thought was a damn suckfest of a match. The ending sequence with Booker T was great, and he looked on fire, but this match bored me to tears. Rest hold, stalling, standing around. I just hated this one, throughout, but LOVED the ending.

 

Ok, now I'm getting pissed off. We have Jericho and Christian once AGAIN in the damn ring with Stacey and Test. I don't know about you, but I thought they dropped this. After tonight you know Test will now seek revenge more so than ever, and I dislike that. I saw no point to this as well, besides, how many times have we seen that EXACT angle done before? I can only assume we'll see Christian/Jericho vs. HBK/Test pretty soon, but does anyone really care about Test being in this? Get ready folks, because Test is HBK's new Diesel, heh.

 

I take it that Nowinski pissed someone off VERY much so, because Jeff f'n Hardy SQUASHED him tonight. Raise your hand if you gave a shit about this. Are you doing it? I doubt many of you are, really. I hated the ending also. If they were going to reverse the decision, they should have had Hardy REALLY go after Nowinski after the match.

 

We have Rocky in the back now with Hurricane, and I can't complain about this, Rocky is gold.

 

Next up was Lawler/Morley, in a match that I saw no point in at all really. Again, it's nothing more but the SAME SHIT EVERY WEEK. How is this great, am I missing something? Morley is distracted, the Dudleyz 3D him, and everyone cheers, it's simply for a pop. This did nothing at all to help the shoe, it did nothing at all to do or help anyone. Just like Kane/RVD, either FURTHER something in the angle, or just move the hell on, damn.

 

Then we have the most predictable Battle Royal in the history of the industry. I don't think there is a single person here who did not think Booker T would win it, and if you didn't think he would, then you were kidding yourself. There was nothing special here at all, just the same match as most other Battle Royal's that we've seen over, and over, and over, and over again. Oh yeah, only this one had THE most anti-climatic ending ever, done better many times in the past. I loved how Rocky showed his heel self by stalling, that's great work, as always by Rocky. Then it was Booker T vs. Rocky in the middle of the ring, finally. They should have had the two fight JUST a bit longer. The ending sequence should have been more "climatic" and should have been more exciting. Ok, so Booker T reversed an irishwhip leading to him tossing Rocky over, got ya. Why didn't they make it seem more, exciting? It just basicly came out of nowhere, and it left me sour, even though Booker T won.

 

Don't get me wrong, as I'm VERY glad that Booker T is going to WRESTLE'f'n'MANIA, but I didn't like HOW they allowed it to happen, that is all. It wasn't anything truly special, other than the fact that Booker T won the match. It wasn't anything that we haven't seen so many times before. Now, to recap...

 

1.     Jazz defeated Jacqueline, submission.

 

2.     Kane defeated Lance Storm.

 

3.     Booker T and Scott Steiner defeated Randy Orton and Batista.

 

4.     Stacy Keibler and Test defeated Chris Jericho and Christian, disqualification.

 

5.     Chris Nowinski defeated Jeff Hardy, disqualification.

 

6.     Jerry Lawler defeated Sean Morley.

 

7.     Booker T won a Battle Royal also involving Maven, Chris Jericho, Christian, Scott Steiner, The Hurricane, Al Snow, Rosey, Jamal, Lance Storm, Rodney Mack, Jeff Hardy, Kane, Rob Van Dam, Batista, Randy Orton, Test, Tommy Dreamer, Steven Richards and The Rock to earn a shot at HHH’s World Championship at Wrestlemania.

 

...now look at that card, and STILL tell me that this was the damned greatest RAW in years. There was so much pointless, borring, same ol' shit on this show as there always is. It's only, this time, they left us all happy with pushing Booker T and having Rocky be his true character. I don't see anything on this show, not in the least, that was great other than Booker T/Rocky/Hurricane, not at all.

 

I'm sorry, but even thought the show "felt" tons better just by Rocky being there, and just because in ONE match Booker T finally seemed to get some respect, that does NOT make for an overall "best RAW in years".

 

It was good, yes. It was tons better than what we've seen lately, yes. However, the "best in years", no, not in my eyes. Here is my last comment on this...

 

...even IF you wrap shit up in gold, it doesn't make it "solid".

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

People are calling it a great Raw?

 

Rock's moments were some of his best work ever, and it was wonderful seeing Booker win twice in one night and get the Wrestlemania shot. Is anyone's praise really going beyond that?

[Guest Downhome]

People are calling it a great Raw?

 

Rock's moments were some of his best work ever, and it was wonderful seeing Booker win twice in one night and get the Wrestlemania shot. Is anyone's praise really going beyond that?

I read through the RAW thread, and saw people saying over, and over, that it was the greatest RAW in years, and all kinds of statements. Hell, I've had some people IM me saying the same type of thing.

[Guest raptor]

The only thing that made it great: The Rock.

 

He's my new favorite person for making a star (at least for one night) out of THE HURRICANE!!!!

 

Oh... and that Booker guy is going to Wrestlemania, too.

 

So, basically your assesment is pretty much correct, Rock, Booker and Hurricane made the show good. I did like the Jericho/Test/Stacy segment too, but not enough to bump the rest of the show up to anything more than adequate.

[Guest El Satanico]

It's not even close to being the greatest ever.

 

There's been alot of people highly overrating the show tonight, but I'm sure after the excitement dies down they will realize that while it was good it wasn't THAT great.

 

Rock was great no question, but his greatness wasn't enough to make it an amazing "greatest Raw" show. However he did carry Raw to a very solid decent/good show which is quite a task when talking about Raw. Without Rock it's a decent AT BEST show that everyone bitches about.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

If I had a dimefor everytime "greatest raw in years" has been said, I'd have enough to buy a small country.

[Guest Downhome]

It's not even close to being the greatest ever.

 

There's been alot of people highly overrating the show tonight, but I'm sure after the excitement dies down they will realize that while it was good it wasn't THAT great.

 

Rock was great no question, but his greatness wasn't enough to make it an amazing "greatest Raw" show. However he did carry Raw to a very solid decent/good show which is quite a task when talking about Raw. Without Rock it's a decent AT BEST show that everyone bitches about.

I agree with that 100%, I simply didn't understand when I got home and read all of the damn praise about the show itself. I mean, this should mean SOMETHING comming from me, the guy who is almost always positive about EVERYTHING.

 

I guess in the RAW thread people were just all excited, but still, I don't understand it. Even as I watched it I thought it was the normal stuff, other than Rocky/Booker T.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

<----- is already in the midst of purchasing Nigeria due to his accumulation of dimes.

[Guest bob_barron]

I was there so of course it was the greatest RAW ever.

 

It was a terrific RAW to be there live and on tape it was entertaining and The Rock more then made up for the shoddy ring work

[Guest Downhome]

I was there so of course it was the greatest RAW ever.

 

It was a terrific RAW to be there live and on tape it was entertaining and The Rock more then made up for the shoddy ring work

Oh God, I bet it WAS something special live. You are in no posistion to judge seeing how you have that advantage, lol. What happened when the camera's stopped rolling?

[Guest bob_barron]

It was gold!!!!

 

Rock stayed in the ring and told Jerome Williams to

stay here. Rock called out Booker T and got the crowd

to chant 'Booker'. Rock demanded he do a spinaroonie

and then Rock would do a Rock-a-roonie and then kick

his candy ass. Booker T made Rock leave the ring and

he did a spinaroonie. Rock then did a rock-a-roonie

and walked right into a BOOKEND! to a huge pop.

 

Booker left and Rock stayed in the ring. Rock said:

Ow- damn that move really hurts. Rock did some more

mic work and actually got the crowd to turn him face.

He did his IF YA SMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL bit and then

saw a handicapped kid in the crowd and went: I know

I'm a bad guy but- then let the kid say: Is cooking.

 

Overall the show was a lot of fun with Rock being a

huge highlight.

[Guest bob_barron]

Booker also asked the crowd if they wanted to see the rock-a-roonie and then after the crowd responded he said:

 

Yo- you got to PRETEND like you want to see the Rock-a-roonie.

 

Seeing the Rock get Bookended was my favourite part of the show. These guys stayed after the show to entertain us and I give them all the credit in the world. I find it funny that Rock went from being booed out of the building to having the crowd back on his side by the end of the show

[Guest Downhome]

It was gold!!!!

 

Rock stayed in the ring and told Jerome Williams to

stay here. Rock called out Booker T and got the crowd

to chant 'Booker'. Rock demanded he do a spinaroonie

and then Rock would do a Rock-a-roonie and then kick

his candy ass. Booker T made Rock leave the ring and

he did a spinaroonie. Rock then did a rock-a-roonie

and walked right into a BOOKEND! to a huge pop.

 

Booker left and Rock stayed in the ring. Rock said:

Ow- damn that move really hurts. Rock did some more

mic work and actually got the crowd to turn him face.

He did his IF YA SMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL bit and then

saw a handicapped kid in the crowd and went: I know

I'm a bad guy but- then let the kid say: Is cooking.

 

Overall the show was a lot of fun with Rock being a

huge highlight.

That is indeed awesome, heh. I wish they would release a DVD with the moments that happens after the camera goes off, lol. Still though...

 

...even with Rocky/Booker T, I just don't see the show as great as some proclaimed it to be, but hey, that's just MY opinion.

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

Shows ALWAYS seem better or worse while you're watching them, hence the reactions in the thread. I have to back and watch the tape to see the non-Rock stuff, because those were the only parts that I didn't just listen to in the other room.

[Guest bob_barron]

I understand Downhome- The show did have piss poor ring work but it was entertaining and the crowd was hot most of the night.

 

This was one of those shows where the ring work took second place to the awesomeness that is HEEL ROCK!~

[Guest KingOfOldSchool]

As others have said, it was nothing special except for The Rock and Booker T. But it was still the most entertaining Raw in months, despite some stinkers on the wrestling side. No Austin was a big disappointment though.

[Guest Human Fly]

Chris Jericho was also entertaining tonight. Stacy might not have done the best selling job, but it was great seeing her in the Walls for a few minutes. Xian punking out Hardy was funny as well. HBK running in like the Warrior was funny, but him cleaning house like the Warrior wasn't.

 

Jericho elminating Test in the Battle Royal was funny, elminating himself wasn't.

[Conspiracy_Victim 0]

I think given the huge amount of crap we as wrestling fans have been forced to endure for the past several months, the fact that we had anything at ALL to enjoy in a RAW made us giddy, like sniffing whiteout and markers together . Rock, Booker, and Hurricane (hell, I'll even throw in Test looking drunk off his ass in that GGW promo and his "It's not like I touched 'em!") made the show fun for a change. Now, if they could just keep it up. I'll look for Austin in NYC next week and pray.

[Guest Freakish_Twist_Of_Fate]

Is it just me, or are the writers wanting the Rock to feud with every major name in the damn league???

 

Let's see... Ongoing 'love' for Hogan, then mention of Austin being picked over him for a damn award. And incidents with Hurricane and Booker T... PLUS the fact that Rocky wants gold, and there's probably no love lost between him and Triple-Dose-Of-Steroids (I find that sig pic utterly hilarious BTW, Downhome). So there's five potential / recurring / ongoing feuds for the Rock.

 

If I got that much action, I'd be a happy man.

 

Anyway, heel Rock is interesting... Booker T going to 'Mania = (Y)

 

I'm out.

[Guest TheGame2705]

I thought it was good. Well The Rock segment with Hurricane and then the battle royal. I thought the ruling a chair illegal in a NO DQ match was incredibly stupid. Jericho's segment was horrendous and was way too long. He put Stacy in the walls (one of the better looking ones he's done in a while). Jeff Hardy ran out drunken. Orton (Annoying me at 100%) and Batista thankfully jobbed.

[Guest Celtic Jobber]

To me it was just a really good Rock promo along with 1 hour and 45 minutes worth of pure, unadulturated crap!

[Guest AndrewTS]

Good Raw, but not a great one. Rock saved the show.

[Guest THE MIGHTY THOR]

The only ones that are calling this crapfest "the greatest RAW of the year" are only WCW marks just b/c Booker won the battle royal. This RAW sucked so bad b/c first there was no Austin, Lawler gets to wrestle on RAW but RVD gets to wrestle on Heat, Jericho looking like a fool by eliminating himself from the battle royal because he was running away from Test(the guy that has heat for no showing up to work),Steiner's push even though the crowd were booing him all the time, RVD still stuck with Kane and in the midcard level, and it seems we are getting another Austin/Rock match for Mania.

[cawthon777 0]

It was more enjoyable than most episodes over the past few months - but that's it.

 

Gotta praise Rocky for giving both Hurricane and Booker the rub. Booker going over Rock clean in the battle royal was good to see. The other main eventers should learn from Rocky's performance last night. When you refuse to put over the younger guys and squash them night after night, you're hurting everyone.

 

As Reagan said to Gorbachov - "Tear down that glass ceiling." ...Or something like that.

[Guest Super Pissed Smark]

The fact that portions of RAW were actually entertaining immediately makes it the best RAW of this year, and possibly the best RAW in a year, or even more. For those of you who thought the matches sucked and only Rocky saved the show, well, yeah. But don't worry, he'll be gone again soon enough and you'll be able to go back to just having matches that suck, and promos that suck, and Triple-H that sucks all night long.

[Guest Polish_Rifle]

"Then we have the most predictable Battle Royal in the history of the industry. I don't think there is a single person here who did not think Booker T would win it, and if you didn't think he would, then you were kidding yourself. "

________________

 

I think the majority of the fans in attendance and watching at home would have found the outcome of the Battle Royal as surprising. Obviously, we don't think so because we have been hearing reports of a Booker-HHH match for weeks.

[Guest Downhome]

"Then we have the most predictable Battle Royal in the history of the industry. I don't think there is a single person here who did not think Booker T would win it, and if you didn't think he would, then you were kidding yourself. "

________________

 

I think the majority of the fans in attendance and watching at home would have found the outcome of the Battle Royal as surprising. Obviously, we don't think so because we have been hearing reports of a Booker-HHH match for weeks.

ANYONE who is a Pro. Wrestling fan, who has been following the sport for any true length of time, HAD to know that Booker T was going to win. In the match, we had...

 

Booker T, Maven, Chris Jericho, Christian, Scott Steiner, The Hurricane, Al Snow, Rosey, Jamal, Lance Storm, Rodney Mack, Jeff Hardy, Kane, Rob Van Dam, Batista, Randy Orton, Test, Tommy Dreamer, Steven Richards and The Rock.

 

...now I don't know about you, but there is only, ONLY, one obvious choice. We can instantly delete Maven, Christian, The Hurricane, Al Snow, Rosey, Jamal, Lance Storm, Rodney Mack, Jeff Hardy, Batista, Randy Orton, Test, Tommy Dreamer, and Steven Richards. We can then eliminate Chris Jericho, as he is obvioulsy leading up to a match with HBK at WrestleMania. We have to eliminate RVD and Kane because they are obvioulsy going to feud with one another. I'd say no one thought Steiner would win, seeing his reaction and the fact that he's jobbed to HHH twice already. We are then left with Booker T and The Rock. Earlier in the show, Rocky seemingly already started his feud with Austin, and besides, HE'S A HEEL. It was obvious a face would win this match, it doesn't take a genious to figure this out. We are then left with Booker T. He's a face, he's up and coming, and he already has a storyline started with Evolution.

 

Again, if anyone TRULY, deep down, thought that anyone other than him would win this thing, then you were kidding yourself.

[Guest Polish_Rifle]

The same Booker T that has been punked out ever since Austin beat his ass in a supermarket...the same Booker T who lost to Edge at Wrestlemania last year while they feuded over a shampoo commercial...the same Booker T who was not even at Sunday's PPV.

 

Who's kidding who here? I am sure the common fan who does not over analyze every promo and backstage skit was shocked as hell to see the Rock get tossed out by Booker T.

[Guest gangsteruwa]

I watched Raw last night from a mark's standpoint, and I thought it was pretty good. Actually one of the better Raws in the past couple months. A lot of the reasons that people are listing have little to do with the actual wrestling. It's all about who's holding who down, incompetent booking, and people being pushed that shouldn't be. I honestly think some people are just looking for something to bitch about.

 

It's the same complaining everyweek. Sure it's the WWE's fault for being so lazy about the writing, but last night's show was pretty damn good from a writing standpoint (minus the whole setup of Orton to attack Booker, which never happened). For the group of people on Raw, I think we are getting all we should expect. Raw is meant to be heavy on the entertainment, and not the wrestling. I honestly don't think there is anyone on Raw that could put on a spectacular match anyways. Maybe Jericho or Booker T. ::waits for the statement that the reason for this is because HHH made them look weak::

 

Last night we saw Booker get a main event spot at WrestleMania. We saw a kick ass promo by the Rock. We saw Hurricane do something of mild importance. We saw Jericho almost snap Stacy in half, while Test looked on helplessly, furthered the story line and made Jericho look like a bastard. We see the continuation of HBK vs. Jericho.

 

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that I actually even liked the Golddust with Tourette's Syndrome segment. Sure it was meant to be serious, and I laughed my ass off. The thing is I'm such a bastard that I'd do the same if I saw someone like that in real life. Plus it was his idea, so maybe he's just trying to add more depth to his character, and get people to care about him more.

 

I was highly enteretained last night, and I went to bed happy. That's all that matters to me from watching Raw. If I want wrestling, I'll watch Smackdown..or I'll buy some Indy or Japan tapes. I stopped hoping that Raw would turn out five star classics quite some time ago.

 

Now I'm going to watch as people pick out the flaws in my message...there are probably a lot of them.

[Guest AndrewTS]

The only ones that are calling this crapfest "the greatest RAW of the year" are only WCW marks just b/c Booker won the battle royal. This RAW sucked so bad b/c first there was no Austin, Lawler gets to wrestle on RAW but RVD gets to wrestle on Heat, Jericho looking like a fool by eliminating himself from the battle royal because he was running away from Test(the guy that has heat for no showing up to work),Steiner's push even though the crowd were booing him all the time, RVD still stuck with Kane and in the midcard level, and it seems we are getting another Austin/Rock match for Mania.

So, tell me, has there been a better Raw in 2003? I know it hasn't been great, but to me it is definitely the best Raw we've had this year so far.

 

The Raws prior to Benoit and Eddy jumping to SD and prior to HHH's "long awaited" return were definitely better than that Raw, though. I'm not sure if that has been within a year of now or not, though.

 

However, I don't get how people seem to have this idea that there was some Golden Age of Raw where it has been consistently entertaining.

 

Throughout Raw's whole 10 years plus, we've had a bunch of shitty to mediocre Raws occasionally interrupted with great shows. The TLC 3 Raw, for instance, was shit except for one overrated match that was booked totally fucked up.

 

SD prior to the hossification put a better string of shows than I can recall there ever being.

 

My qualifications for "great show" mean good wrestling, entertaining segments that aren't long or boring, and good booking that draws you into the storylines.

 

This Raw didn't have good wrestling, but it had mostly-entertaining segments, although Rock sometimes has segments that are too long. The booking was mostly good, although Lawler beating Morely does nothing for anybody, and Hebner dicking around with Morely was pretty retarded booking because it was a No DQ match.

 

Thus, this Raw was not great. It was not even "very good." It's merely a "good" show. Although it may have been great to the crowd as well if the dark matches and Heat tapings had good matches with good booking to phase out the utter shit on the rest of Raw.