RAW: Was it really all that great, really?

[Guest Downhome]

Now that I REALLY think about it, and after I've watched parts of it more and more, I've come to a more solid conclusion...

 

...this RAW wasn't even really all that "good" overall. There were some great, CLASSIC moments, but taking the entire show into account, I can't possibly say it was good overall.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Well, I didn't see all of Raw, so your mileage may vary.

 

Hey, it did have arguably Scott Steiner's best match in WWE since his return ever!

[Guest Choken One]

O.K it wasn't the greatest but We had TWO CLASSIC Segments...Booker going over 19 men cleanly and NOTHING outrightly sucked....

[Guest Downhome]

Hey, it did have arguably Scott Steiner's best match in WWE since his return ever!

Is it really that good though?

 

O.K it wasn't the greatest but We had TWO CLASSIC Segments...Booker going over 19 men cleanly and NOTHING outrightly sucked....

 

Oh God, there was PLENTY on that show that outrightly sucked in my opinion. Also, to say Booker T went over 19 men cleanly is rather outlandish. It was a battle royal, don't make it sound like he pinned 19 other people or something. It was a sub-par BR that we've seen so many times in the past, with a very anti-climatic ending.

 

As I said before, in my eyes, Rocky and Booker T was not enough to make it a good show. What WWE needs to do is realize that in order to really be what they used to be, they need to truly focus on the ENTIRE product, rather than just the main event type angles and the such. I've always been one to believe that even if you have the greatest match of all time in the main event, yet the entire or almost all of the undercard sucks ass, it is NOT a good show. It's simply shit, with a great moment/moments, just like RAW was.

[Guest Choken One]

Was it just me or did the show go like SUPER FLASH FAST? Last week was slow and agonizing...Last night was crisp and speedy...

[Guest Downhome]

Was it just me or did the show go like SUPER FLASH FAST? Last week was slow and agonizing...Last night was crisp and speedy...

Not to me, all of the crap that was on last night made it seem like it took forver. However...

 

...the moments with Rocky and Booker T did seem to be very crisp and speedy. I was listening to Rocky at the begining, and couldn't believe almost twenty minutes had gone by. If only they could smooth out the ENTIRE show like that.

[Guest Choken One]

Well...I just it was just me then...

[Guest Brian]

Anti-climatic finish?

[Guest jester]

My take on Raw:

 

The Bad News First:

 

-No Austin, which was probably not a smart move.

 

-The first Rock promo, despite how he worked that crowd like a master, had far too many pauses.

 

-Lawler wrestling.

 

-Lawler winning. Again.

 

-a no DQ match where the stip did little to play into the match except for the Dudley finish (why did the ref take away the chair from Morley with no DQ rules?)

 

-Blah women's match, though I like how Jazz transitioned from one submission move to another.

 

-the GWG crap. They show more raunchy stuff in the actual commericals for the videos. And what the hell is this about Stacy not knowing what it was?

 

-Jericho eliminating himself was also pretty dumb. I mean sure, be the cowardly heel and run away, but it's just as easy to slip under the ropes...

 

-Kane vs Storm. "Duh, why isn't the Toronto crowd booing the guy with Canadian flag?" Boring match with two tag teams that should just die. To be fair, everyone wanted RVD to turn here, but turning on the guy beating up the Canadian would not have made RVD look like a heel. Then again, I think a heel turn would make RVD more popular regardless, so whatever...

 

-when is HBK going to get beaten down by someone not named HHH? He had everyone fleeing in terror tonight. I'm still convinced Jericho is doing the J-O-B to him at WM. If he isn't jobbing to Test.

 

 

Now the Good:

 

-The first sane booking decision we've seen in a long time. Booker going to Wrestlemania. Now they better fucking job HHH. Clean. Middle of the ring. A slow three count. With Booker winning the rematch clean and holding the belt for awhile.

 

-Stacy in a Leaf sweater. Mmmm.

 

-nice hot crowd

 

-the Rock promos were great, especially the one with Hurricane. And here's the key thing--Rocky actually didn't decimate Hurricane. Hurricane got his licks in and walked away with one up Rock. HHH never let anything like this happen.

 

-In fact, Rock made me hate HHH more than ever, because Rock showed what a huge difference there is between the two performers. HHH would have to be 10 times better than he is to wash Rock's shorts.

 

-they disguised the limitations of Steiner well.

 

-return of pre-taped interviews. The Goldust interview wasn't great, but they should be doing more of these pre-taped segments to save time on live shows and to help out those who can't work the stick as well.

 

-I have to admit I laughed when Bischoff limped out.

 

 

I think it was a good Raw in the face of what has gone before. In fact, I think that's why people are saying "best Raw in years." That may be overstating the case, but it's a reflection of just how week the show has been in the last few months...

[Guest AndrewTS]

As I said before, in my eyes, Rocky and Booker T was not enough to make it a good show. What WWE needs to do is realize that in order to really be what they used to be, they need to truly focus on the ENTIRE product, rather than just the main event type angles and the such. I've always been one to believe that even if you have the greatest match of all time in the main event, yet the entire or almost all of the undercard sucks ass, it is NOT a good show. It's simply shit, with a great moment/moments, just like RAW was.

 

Exactly, which is why it wasn't a great show.

 

Although, the problem is, is that Vince is mainly concerned with the main event angles, and leaves the rest to the booking team. Unfortunately the booking team on Raw sucks and Vince is a moron 99% of the time these days.

 

Smackdown has a more solid, in touch booking team, although there are still plenty of flaws. Vince is in charge of the main event angles there, too.

Thus, Brock is dominating Kurt Angle in a god like manner. Remember also that Albert is supposed to be booked in a "big money" program with Undertaker. Ugh...Vince is--well, you know the rest.

 

So the booking teams are made up of out of touch and/or senile old men, the boss' daughter, some shitty 20-something sitcom writers who aren't wrestling fans, and an ex-wrestler or two.

 

WWE is doomed.

[Guest Brian]

No Austin is actually a smart move. With Rock on RAW, Austin next week, a main event program (two if you count Jericho/HBK) they have a ton of momentum and this week was going to get a large bump from the pay per view.

[Guest Repo Man jr]

I can't see it till Friday, but from reading Raw thread I'd have to say it was the best thread I read in ages.

[Guest Brian]

1999 was made up of a former mutant, basically the same team sans Steph, and a former coffee boy/video store owner.

 

Lagana's twenty something but to say the guy has no experience with wrestling is far from true. He used to be a regular at the ECW arena and has written a few good letter to the Observer Newsletter (if anyone has them, put them up) about Russo faulty booking which is when he came out and said that "sitcom writers can't write wrestling shows.

[Guest Downhome]

Anti-climatic finish?

Yes, they made it seem like Booker T vs Rocky would be something really special and exciting. They start going at it, and Booker T just reverses an Irish Whip out of nowhere, I just hated that ending. They could have done so much more with the situation. I'm not saying don't have him throw him out like that, but just do SOMETHING more before it happens, to build up to it.

[Guest Downhome]

No Austin is actually a smart move. With Rock on RAW, Austin next week, a main event program (two if you count Jericho/HBK) they have a ton of momentum and this week was going to get a large bump from the pay per view.

Regardless of why they did it, I still think it was f'n stupid, and is OBVIOUSLY being done just for a ratings boost next week. They are not thinking about the WM angle like they should. As of last night, there were four shows to build up Rocky/Austin. Since Austin wasn't there last night, they now have only three shows to build up thier match.

 

That just wasn't very smart to me, they should have used EVERY chance they had to build it into as big a match as it could be.

[Guest Brian]

That's not anti-climatic though, because Booker winning was the lcimax of that match. It was more rushed. Probably saving for a re-match down the line (next week?).

[Guest AndrewTS]

1999 was made up of a former mutant, basically the same team sans Steph, and a former coffee boy/video store owner.

 

Lagana's twenty something but to say the guy has no experience with wrestling is far from true. He used to be a regular at the ECW arena and has written a few good letter to the Observer Newsletter (if anyone has them, put them up) about Russo faulty booking which is when he came out and said that "sitcom writers can't write wrestling shows.

Lagana I forget about--although I know he's tight with Heyman. I don't know what kind of booking ideas he's come up with or what he may be producing.

 

Still, if he assume he's any good, he's still one of the few voices of insanity among all the others.

 

Who is the "former mutant?" I thought you meant Russo until you talked about "former coffee boy/video store clerk."

[Guest Brian]

Ferrera was an Arena regular too.

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

My take on Raw:

Now the Good:

 

-The first sane booking decision we've seen in a long time. Booker going to Wrestlemania. Now they better fucking job HHH. Clean. Middle of the ring. A slow three count. With Booker winning the rematch clean and holding the belt for awhile.

 

-Stacy in a Leaf sweater. Mmmm.

 

-nice hot crowd

 

-the Rock promos were great, especially the one with Hurricane. And here's the key thing--Rocky actually didn't decimate Hurricane. Hurricane got his licks in and walked away with one up Rock. HHH never let anything like this happen.

 

-In fact, Rock made me hate HHH more than ever, because Rock showed what a huge difference there is between the two performers. HHH would have to be 10 times better than he is to wash Rock's shorts.

 

-they disguised the limitations of Steiner well.

 

-return of pre-taped interviews. The Goldust interview wasn't great, but they should be doing more of these pre-taped segments to save time on live shows and to help out those who can't work the stick as well.

 

-I have to admit I laughed when Bischoff limped out.

Add to that "Trish looking *SMOKING* hot during her run-in"

[Guest treble charged]

I hope they weren't planning on having this Goldust angle be serious, because people in the arena were laughing their asses off during it.

[NYU 0]

The only thing good about last night was the Rock (and maybe the Jericho/Test/Stacy/HBK angle ). He was just gold on the mic and in the Battle Royal. But nothing else really was all that remarkable.

 

1) Booker T wins the Battle Royal - Whoop'de'friggin do. This sudden Booker T push comes out of nowhere, and I could care less. I can't understand the Booker T love here, because I think of him as being just a mediocre wrestler. But in the Battle Royal, he didn't look too strong. Besides the Rock, he didn't have any hot comebacks and start kicking some ass. In fact, he got his ass kicked the entire match, and came back at the end to win. Even in his match against Orton/Batista, the man looked pretty weak. The only way he can beat the rookie Orton is by a quick rollup from a crossbody ? This is the man going to WrestleMania ? I can understand Booker T fans going crazy for this push, but for me, a non-Booker T fan, this is still doing nothing for me. I don't see him as a serious Title Contender yet, and I certainly don't see him as a World Champion right now.

 

2) And of course, I have to mention the disrespect RVD is being shown once again. The man is put on Heat, against god damn Steven Richards, while Kane gets to put on a shitty match against Storm on Raw. Then, we are supposed to think RVD's still mad at Kane yet, in their promo later, they were basically good friends again. Then, in the Battle Royal itself, RVD was thrown out WAY too friggin early. Wasn't he like in the early 5 thrown out?! Meanwhile, Kane stayed in till the end ? WHY ?! Why wouldn't RVD eliminate Kane, like Kane did to him at Royal Rumble ? Wouldn't this only only help the match they'll have at Mania, PLUS actually be building on past history ? Why wouldn't they do that ? Because WWE refuses to give RVD a proper feud and prefers to continue the rapid depush. WWE is dead-set on making sure no one will ever really care about RVD, because he is looking about as good as Team Angle does on Smackdown against Brock.

 

For Booker T fans, I'm sure last night was awesome. But for me, an RVD mark and a neutral Booker T spectator, I didn't think it was good at all. One man is continuously depushed, while one man is being pushed out of nowhere only to lose ( and if you think Booker T is winning at Mania, you got a problem. Need we bring up our "pushes" of RVD and Kane at Unforgiven and No Mercy ?)

 

Raw wasn't bad. But best one in years ? Give me a break !

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

I can't understand the Booker T love here, because I think of him as being just a mediocre wrestler

And yet you want RVD to challenge for the title? RVD is quite the mediocre wrestler himself (and I kinda like RVD).

[Guest treble charged]

RVD fans can look at the bright side: He'll be in the main events of both Raw and Heat this week (I'm assuming that RVD/Richards will be the ME, since there's nothing really else that stands out).

 

I also want to mention something else. Getting put on Heat is not 'disrespectful', and even though he didn't have a regular match on Raw, he was still involved in 3 segments (Kane/Storm match, backstage segment with Kane, Battle Royal). Only Rock and Test were in that many, and neither of them were on Heat, as well.

[NYU 0]

I can't understand the Booker T love here, because I think of him as being just a mediocre wrestler

And yet you want RVD to challenge for the title? RVD is quite the mediocre wrestler himself (and I kinda like RVD).

RVD is original. Booker T does shit that has ALL been seen before. Kicks ? Scissors Kick ? Book End that looks exactly like the Rock Bottom ? Whoa ! Let me mark out now ! Booker T vs. HHH at Mania ! Whoop-de-damn-doo !

 

Booker T IS mediocre. And while RVD is certainly not the best wrestler in WWE, I do find him more entertaining than Booker T. And, if WWE really got behind RVD and let him cut some more promos, I have a feeling he COULD be the most over face in WWE - and not just on Raw, which he is right now. Booker T is certainly not my least favorite wrestler, but I don't see how he is SO much better or SO much more deserving than RVD is of getting this title shot. He's an okay wrestler. Not great. But whoo, he was in WCW, so let me get excited. Hooray !

 

-----And I know I'm gonna get the "Did you hear the pop Booker T got when he threw out the Rock last night ? He is the most over face !" argument. Well, how much pop did Booker T get when he came out for his tag match ? Good - not great. And when he beat Orton ? Fine - not excellent. RVD is more over. I feel Booker T's pop was more "Yes ! He eliminated Rock ! Rocky sucks !" than "Yes ! Booker T vs. HHH ! I can't wait !" I don't know for sure but that's what I think.

[Mecha Mummy 0]

I enjoyed Raw, but it wasn't the best show in years. Maybe the best show in a couple months, but not in years. But, hey, Rock's gold as a heel, the Rock/Hurricane segment was awesome, Jeff's save attempt flopped miserably, and despite what everyone else says, I LOVE Battle Royales, and yeah, it was predictable, but I thought it was enjoyable anyway. But that's just me.

[Guest Downhome]

[ I feel Booker T's pop was more "Yes ! He eliminated Rock ! Rocky sucks !" than "Yes ! Booker T vs. HHH ! I can't wait !" I don't know for sure but that's what I think.

I was actually thinking the EXACT same thing when Booker T won that BR. I don't care who it was, just as long as some sort of face tossed Rocky over the top rope, there was going to be a huge pop, regardless. I don't think you can even mention Booker T's pop in taking up for him, as last night was a mute point. Wait untill he's in there with HHH, and if he STILL gets a megapop, THEN we're cooking. As for RVD...

 

...if you think he'll ever have a serious reign as a TRUE champion, then think again. As long as he's a face, as long as he doesn't have a manager, he will NEVER be a true "player". He might win the title, keep it for a few weeks, but he will NOT be the main focus as any type of champion. Sad, but that is the truth.

 

As far as Booker T goes, I'd much rather have Chris Jericho in his place, but I'm not complaining as is. I've been a Booker T fan for a decade, and I always will be. It's his time, and he's going to the top. Booker T is NOT one of the greatest workers ever, but he is damn entertaining. I'd love it even more if they put him in the ring with people who can truly "go" more offten, as THAT is when Booker T truly shines.

[Guest NoCalMike]

-----And I know I'm gonna get the "Did you hear the pop Booker T got when he threw out the Rock last night ? He is the most over face !" argument. Well, how much pop did Booker T get when he came out for his tag match ? Good - not great. And when he beat Orton ? Fine - not excellent. RVD is more over. I feel Booker T's pop was more "Yes ! He eliminated Rock ! Rocky sucks !" than "Yes ! Booker T vs. HHH ! I can't wait !" I don't know for sure but that's what I think.

Regarding Booker T's pop, I'd say that is pretty accurate. The problem on RAW right now is that through the idiotic writing of the past year or so, Triple H has buried almost every worker that presented the least bit of challenge to him.(besides HBK) Booker T is probably the only guy that hasn't been buried, hence, he may be the ONLY worker at this point that the fans(in mass)will buy as a credible threat. I too would have really liked to see RVD get the spot, however he has been doing absolutely nothing important for the past 6 months so the fans are really caring about him at the moment. He needs to rid himself of the partnership with Kane since it is going basically NOWHERE. Whether RVD turns heel, Kane turns heel, or they just go their seperate ways, the tag team needs to END. Bottomline is though, RVD belongs in the upperclass on RAW. I have a feeling he is either gonna wrestle Kane or one of the evolution members at WM, if he even gets on the card.

[Guest Downhome]

RVD is original.

Bah, hahahahahaha. RVD was original years ago, now he simply does the exact same match every, single, time. Just like Hardy "was" original, years ago. The reason some can put on the same match yet people not say anything about it, like many of the main eventers, is because they make up for it in their promo's, talking smack on the mic, their character, etc...

 

RVD is not making up for his same ol match, and if they don't do SOMETHING soon for the guy, he's going to die out. It's time, right NOW, to bust out a heel turn for him. As the cocky heel, as he PROVED could work in ECW (while still being awesome in the ring), he would then be a much bigger success.

[Guest TheArchiteck]

It was gold!!!!

 

Rock stayed in the ring and told Jerome Williams to

stay here. Rock called out Booker T and got the crowd

to chant 'Booker'. Rock demanded he do a spinaroonie

and then Rock would do a Rock-a-roonie and then kick

his candy ass. Booker T made Rock leave the ring and

he did a spinaroonie. Rock then did a rock-a-roonie

and walked right into a BOOKEND! to a huge pop.

 

Booker left and Rock stayed in the ring. Rock said:

Ow- damn that move really hurts. Rock did some more

mic work and actually got the crowd to turn him face.

He did his IF YA SMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEL bit and then

saw a handicapped kid in the crowd and went: I know

I'm a bad guy but- then let the kid say: Is cooking.

 

Overall the show was a lot of fun with Rock being a

huge highlight.

Man that sounded like some great stuff.

I wish I could have seen it.....

[Guest Angle-plex]

Is anybody even looking foward to Austin next week? I think Rock did such a great job this week that everyone forgot about Austin.

 

Rock > Austin