Affirmative Action

February 27, 2003

Filipino.

February 28, 2003

Y'know, there's a whole seperate spin I could put on this, and for the hell of it, I will.

Let's talk minorities. If you read the hillbillys on TV thread, you already know. As was pointed out there, people from the mountains (basically any mountains except the Rockies) are the last minority you can make fun of. So, if you're going to do affirmative action, extend it to my minority. Or, better yet, college-educated people are minorities. Let's give them AA too.

Affirmitive Action? Let's affirm the action of hiring the best-qualified for the job. Period.

February 28, 2003

Filipino.

Ok, my bad.

EDIT: Why is it that "Philipines" is spelled with a "Ph" but "Filipino" is spelled with an "F"? Any idea?

February 28, 2003

Well, I am kind of torn on the subject of affirmative action. I was just accepted at the University of Michigan and it is becoming a very big deal to my family and all and everyone is so proud of me, but, in a way I feel like i don't deserve to go there since the only reason i was accepted because of my race. Being that im black put me ahead of applicants from my own school who had better grades and took the same classes as me. I am by no means a poor student or anything but my gpa is only slightly about 3.5. My act was higher than most of the kids in my school at 28 and my classes are mostly honors and AP classes. But there are kids in my grade who had higher gpa's and stronger grades in math and science and they were rejected or waitlisted. They all just happened to be white. These kids are Michigan residents, quality students, active in the community, and michigan finds ways to reject them. They told one of my friends that his math and science scores were too low and that was the main factor in his rejection. This is a kid who has constantly got A's or B's in college level courses, but one test is able to prove his aptitude in mathematics. I find that to be absurd.

The worst cases have to be those of my other two friends. One is fourth in the class, all-state wrestler, one of the better coxies in the region, if not the country, and the class president. He was wait listed as well. The other friend is quarterback for the state-runner up in football, great rower, starter on the basketball team, great student, has two brothers who went to michigan and he was waitlisted as well. He was waitlisted before i even applied. While grades aren't the only factor in admission, they are one of the most important. All of those kids are qualified enough to go to michigan if i am. The only thing is that michigan has a points system. You need to equal i believe 100 points total. You get your recalculated gpa multiplied by 20 + your act score is scaled. This means you get anywhere from 0-4 points depending on your score( 32-36= 4 points). However, being a member of an underrepresented minority gets you an extra twenty points. There are other ways to gain points, but being a minority combined with my grades and ACT score netted me 94 points off the start.

Michigan's admission policy is there to help people who might not get the chance to attend a top level university because of bias. However, in trying to create a diverse campus, they are blinded by a student's race in admitting students. I may have still gotten in if race was not a factor, but just being a minority put me ahead of students just as qualified.

February 28, 2003

The song & dance that we should be not be judged on the basis of skin color is nice and all, but seriously, we ARE. There are still plenty of people in positions of power that judge on the basis of skin whether AA is part of the equation or not. The fact that minorities still have problems getting hired in parts of the country even when they are qualified is a definate problem. AA is NOT the ULTAMITE answer, and yes some unqualified people may slip in through the cracks, but to his date, it is the BEST system we have thought of.

February 28, 2003

NoCal, the system doesn't work anymore. It's antiquated and still assumes that minorities are inferior. Will there be people who still judge people on the basis of their skin? Most likely. But there will ALWAYS be people like that. There isn't active discrimination like there was back when this program was somewhat useful. There is barely any more active discrimination out there. Where can minorities not get jobs anymore? The quality of minority students are far higher than they were before. What use does it serve today? None. It gives doubt and stigma of perceived inferiority to those who it tries to help and embitters those who it hurts.

February 28, 2003

When a dean of administrations or an employer sees the name, "jamal" or "shakeesha" on an application for school and/or employment and will throw it out just based on that, there is a problem, and something or someone needs to step in. Racism is a lot more institutionlized today, rather than way back in the 50's & 60's when it was more brash and out in the open. It still exists though.

February 28, 2003

When a dean of administrations or an employer sees the name, "jamal" or "shakeesha" on an application for school and/or employment and will throw it out just based on that, there is a problem, and something or someone needs to step in. Racism is a lot more institutionlized today, rather than way back in the 50's & 60's when it was more brash and out in the open. It still exists though.

Is there proof of this, or are we just guessing this? I know people in college named Jamal, so their papers obviously didn't get thrown out. And if they were just thrown out, how would AA help them anyways? I mean, it doesn't matter how many points extra you get if they are just plan thrown out?

February 28, 2003

He's talking about in the case of no AA. I'm not too concerned abotu the education sectors as its become increasingly progressive over the years, but the business sector is a whole different story.

February 28, 2003

I just have real doubts that once AA is gone everything will turn back into the 50's. We've gone past that. I pointed colleges out cause I saw Dean of Admissions, but I kinda see this for the business sector. But still don't think we will have rampant discrimination once AA is gone.

February 28, 2003

Not to the fifties, but there's still some old guards (I guess that's the best way to put it) with power and there's a lot of just general, sub-psychological level rascist undertones in our society which will bias viewpoints.

February 28, 2003

Businesses are out for money. Must are thinking about that when they look at an application and couldn't give a damn about the color of the person that can make them the most.

February 28, 2003

Businesses are out for money. Must are thinking about that when they look at an application and couldn't give a damn about the color of the person that can make them the most.

Exactly, a business that hires completely on race and rather than by ability is doomed from the begining anyway.

February 28, 2003

Athletes tend to get special treatment getting into colleges. Sports bring money to a school, so they want the best athletes. So the athlete could be academically unprepared for the college they are attending. While they are tearing it up on the field, they just can’t cut it in class. As a result, everybody else who managed to get in on the basis of there scholastic ability point their finger and say “Hey, look at those dumb jocks over there. They only got in because they play sports. Man, all *insert sport*ers are just plain stupid.”

Now, instead of athletes, put in your favorite minority. This is supposed to help combat racism?

February 28, 2003

Athletes tend to get special treatment getting into colleges. Sports bring money to a school, so they want the best athletes. So the athlete could be academically unprepared for the college they are attending. While they are tearing it up on the field, they just can’t cut it in class. As a result, everybody else who managed to get in on the basis of there scholastic ability point their finger and say “Hey, look at those dumb jocks over there. They only got in because they play sports. Man, all *insert sport*ers are just plain stupid.”

Now, instead of athletes, put in your favorite minority. This is supposed to help combat racism?

Just going to college doesn't necessarily mean they'll accomplish anything worthwhile. When it comes down to it for athletes, they'll come out of college just as dumb as ever or they'll take school seriously and prepare for a real job. Whether or not they're actually capabale of succeeding in school is another matter entirely. That's the core of the problem with affirmative action, it passes people along who not only get special treatement but it passes along people who very well are incapable of achieving at that particular task (college, jobs, promotions ect). In the socialist grand utopia of what I like to call "smoke and mirrors freedom," skill matters not, the oppurnuity to try however does matter. It's a warped view of freedom in my opinion.

March 1, 2003

I wonder what would happen if a white comedian started mocking black people.

March 1, 2003

They'd get stabbed in a dark alley.

But Dave Chappelle can do whatever he wants. His stand-up is funny as hell.

March 1, 2003

I wonder what would happen if a white comedian started mocking black people.

I'm sure there already are. Especially in the south (where I'm from).

March 1, 2003

My personal feeling is that Affirmative Action has overstayed its welcome, at least in its uses now.

"Affirmative Action" is widely understood to be a thinly veiled quota system used to make sure that minorities are adequately represented in the fields of work and higher education. That's not what it should be. I'm pro-Affirmative Action, but not on the basis of race and not in work and higher education.

I think we need to use Affirmative Action as a way to funnel funding into pre-k and elementary schools in areas of low socioeconomic status. Sure, it would be a case of unequal per-pupil expenditures, but it would result in a more level playing field once children were out of elementary school. By the time they got to college or into the world of work, the idea of the level playing field would allow everyone to be judged on their merits alone.

Of course, that's in a perfect world.

cawthon777 · March 1, 2003

I wonder what would happen if a white comedian started mocking black people.

They would be labled a racist and a rumored affiliation with the KKK would follow.

Making fun of black people is taboo for most comedians. The only ones that can do it and get away with it are black themselves. Whites, however, can be made fun of by anyone. I don't care, I don't get offended easily. But there is a double standard.

March 1, 2003

When a dean of administrations or an employer sees the name, "jamal" or "shakeesha" on an application for school and/or employment and will throw it out just based on that, there is a problem, and something or someone needs to step in

Or people could stop naming their kids "Shakeesa" and what not and mispelling their kids names, "Oprah" (should be "Orpah") and "Duwaine" (Dwayne) come to mind. That might solve that problem a lot quicker. Making up strange names for kids isn't helpful. Truly ethnic names are a different story however.

March 2, 2003

My take on AA

As a black person and a citizen of the United States I am for AA. Personally I do not like it since I will be looked down on at college or at a job which uses AA. I would want to be hired on my merits and achievements. However, AA is still nesscary in America. AA prevents the discrimination against minorites in hiring and school acceptances. I kinda feel reaussured that at least my foot is in the door and that I wont be turned down because of bigots that hire or accept people into college. As Americans we have come a long since the early 20th century. But it doesnt mean this society is perfect and there is equality everywhere. There still is general mistrust and hate between the races in this country. Hopefully we as a people will achieve some sort of racial equality in our lifetime. I see there still is a lot of sterotypes being used, even in this thread (ethnic names for example, not all black parents name their kids ethnically) Having parents not name their kids the way they want to so they can have the white, acceptable name is definatly not going to solve the problem. (Some Guy, just because the names are strange to you, doesnt mean they are not common to some people. What im trying to say is that we have come a long way but we still have a long way to go.

Another thing I would like to comment on is why white people hate AA? I dont see it as a form of racism. I see AA as a way of ensuring equality. if a few white people get stepped on, thats life. Nobody said life was fair.

cawthon777 · March 2, 2003

I see AA as a way of ensuring equality. if a few white people get stepped on, thats life. Nobody said life was fair.

Not the best argument to make. It doesn't ensure equality at all and, sorry to be blunt and all, but I'll be damned if I'm one of the white people that get stepped on.

I'm not racist and I've never done anything hurtful to minorities so I shouldn't be "punished" for things of the past.

March 2, 2003

Ill make the same arguement. Im black and my family and i do not deserve to be discriminated against because of the color of my family skin. My dad did not deserve to be forced to abide by the Jim Crow laws because he was black in the south. I definitely dont deserve to worry if I can get into the college because of the color of my skin. I dont deserve to be denied a job because Im black. I dont dont deserve to passed up on by bigots and good ole boys because of the color of my skin. To say it doesnt happen is total BULLSHIT.

AA is nesscary today. It not like all minorites are accepted and all the whites are left out. There is a little thing called quotas. AA does ensure equality because if it wasnt there then in would go back to 40s and 50s. Minorites at least have their foot in the door because of AA. They dont have to worry about bias like white people dont have to worry about bias.

If there is a better idea than AA, then I would like to hear it please.

cawthon777 · March 2, 2003

If there is a better idea than AA, then I would like to hear it please.

Hmm, how about doing away with the issue of race on college and job applications altogether?

March 2, 2003

I think we need to use Affirmative Action as a way to funnel funding into pre-k and elementary schools in areas of low socioeconomic status. Sure, it would be a case of unequal per-pupil expenditures, but it would result in a more level playing field once children were out of elementary school. By the time they got to college or into the world of work, the idea of the level playing field would allow everyone to be judged on their merits alone.

I think this notion from a couple posts up is entirely a better option than the quota system that exists now.

As it is implemented now, I see Affirmative Action as a crutch, not a solution. The time has passed to keep relying on a crutch; it's obviously not a program that should be immediately ended, but the focus should be shifted towards actual *improvement on a wide scale* rather than just an arbitrary creation of opportunity for some and not others.

A racial bias still exists in America in terms of employment and higher educational opportunities. Most of this stems from baseline problems, where the development process of lower education and adolescent opportunity is deficient. If we really want a nation based on equality, we need to start shifting aid programs down to these formative levels so that we're actually attempting to give equal opportunity to all people. As I see AA now, it *still* neglects the majority of people in favor of benefitting a few who make it into the quotas. It skims a few people off the top rather than actually attempting to help people at a more important level.

March 2, 2003

There is a little thing called quotas.

IANALawyer, but....

Not according to the Supreme Court, there isn't. (see Swann v. Charlotte-Mechlenburg County, in addition to other cases I can't remember right offhand. Not the best cite, since it deals with busing in elementary schools, but it clearly establishes that quotas are unconstitutional.)

AA does ensure equality because if it wasnt there then in would go back to 40s and 50s. Minorites at least have their foot in the door because of AA. They dont have to worry about bias like white people dont have to worry about bias.

That's really a poor argument on several fronts, but the most glaring is that your post makes no reference to more-qualified whites being passed over in favour of less-qualified minorities, as in the case mentioned above in which minorities are given extra points (a quantitative advantage) on college applications at the University of Michigan. That's the issue people have with Affirmative Action, not the fact that minorities are getting jobs and getting into college. I'd say that the vast majority of people on these boards don't care if the guy fixing their car, policing their city or teaching their child is black or white, as long as he does a good job. Quantitative advantages to less-qualified people, whether it's for being a minority, a member of the armed forces or a pink unicorn, prevent me from being completely confident that said person is doing a good job.

That's why I think we need to do away with the advantage system and concentrate only on creating equal educational opportunites at as young an age as possible. If we can create a diverse pool of adequately represented, adequately qualified applicants of all ethnicities and both genders, it will be easy to see who the racists are, because they will be the ones still employing white men to the detriment of others.

March 2, 2003

He's talking about in the case of no AA. I'm not too concerned abotu the education sectors as its become increasingly progressive over the years, but the business sector is a whole different story.

Because, God knows, businesses LOVE negative press over race.

-=Mike

March 2, 2003

I wonder what would happen if a white comedian started mocking black people.

I'm sure there already are. Especially in the south (where I'm from).

I, too, am from the South.

Name ONE white comedian who does that.

Just one.

-=Mike

March 3, 2003

Cancel/Ignore post

Affirmative Action

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