When is Shawn Michaels going to retire?

[Guest Just call me Dan]

The Armageddon match had a horrible first 8 minutes, but was pretty solid thereafter. Shawn hasn't been able to work a straight up match with enough time given to warrant a decision on his current state. The only thing they planned on being worth a damn in that match was the big finish. You can't do much with HHH and a bunch of trash cans to start a match. Survivor Series was the worst booked debacle I've ever seen cinsidering they made most of the "crazy bumps" for shawn who was in no place to take any of them and didn't. Summerslam had nostalgia written all over it, and Shawn gave everything away right there, warranting a good match. RVD's had no time and was hand made for a HHH run in, and now it seems we will get Shawn's first stright up PPV match. If it sucks, flame on, until then, there is no reason to judge.

[Guest bob_barron]

I always found that match overrated.

 

Oh and Regal is MUCH better then Shawn on the mic.

Some people do, and that's certainly their right. I think alot of Bret marks generally like to find flaws in it, especially after 97, and that's their right as well. I, however, find it to be a f'ing great ride from top to bottom, the crowd at the time seemed to as well, and seeing Shawn celebrate at the end is one of my favorite moments ever. That's my right. That's fine.

 

As for mic work, I'll agree that these days Regal is matched up with, and goes beyond Shawn. For whatever reason, I think Shawn's cleaning up his life has taken away some of the material he had to work with before. Which, IMO, isn't neccessarily a bad thing if it's stuff he's moved away from. That's fine since he's strayed from having a mic in his hand lately. When Shawn was in his prime? No. If such was the case, Regal, being the good performer he is, would have found himself in the Main Event wherever he was and would have been as successful. Which isn't putting Regal down at all, mind you. I'm saying if Regal had the mic skills at the time, he'd have surpassed Shawn or matched up with him since Regal certainly isn't lacking in the ring, IMO. But Shawn oozed charisma, and coupled with a ring ability that is alot better than most tend to give him credit for, he found himself on top. Simple as that.

 

Sadly, Regal now is better on the mic and has more ring time ahead of him than Shawn. So that shows you who played it smart, for the most part, Bob. And that's a good thing for Regal.

HBK's celebration was a great moment and at the times the match is AWESOME but there are just a lot of things I don't like about it.

 

The problem with Shawn is that in 1997 he was giving these great promos where you didn't know what he was going to say that and they were always interesting to hear. Since he's come back he took a lame potshot at The Rock and that's it. He just cuts lame generic promos. Shawn was a great worker and a great promo man (I hate him but I won't discount his abilities) but I think it's over- it's time to hang them up, go back to Texas and help raise his kid.

[Guest bob_barron]

The Armageddon match had a horrible first 8 minutes, but was pretty solid thereafter. Shawn hasn't been able to work a straight up match with enough time given to warrant a decision on his current state. The only thing they planned on being worth a damn in that match was the big finish. You can't do much with HHH and a bunch of trash cans to start a match. Survivor Series was the worst booked debacle I've ever seen cinsidering they made most of the "crazy bumps" for shawn who was in no place to take any of them and didn't. Summerslam had nostalgia written all over it, and Shawn gave everything away right there, warranting a good match. RVD's had no time and was hand made for a HHH run in, and now it seems we will get Shawn's first stright up PPV match. If it sucks, flame on, until then, there is no reason to judge.

The streetfight takes forever to get started is pretty slow for a streetfight. It also went on for way too long and would've been enough for the match.

 

The cage match features both guys sitting on top of the cage. Thrilling stuff eh?

 

The ladder match is about two minutes long and features Shawn fucking up his big splash.

 

The end bump just didn't really make me go 'HOLY SHIT' since once Ric Flair set up the tables I knew exactly what was going to happen and how the match was going to end. So it came off as kind of flat to me.

[Guest SP-1]

I agree. It's time for Shawn to do the job one last time and go pursue other things. He's a natural speaker and I think he'd probably be suited to working in the religious realm doing things like that but that's just me. I'd go hear him speak.

 

Anyway. Yes. It's time.

[Guest Just call me Dan]

Oh his character, sucks. He is the exact reason Sting is not an option to bring in. This guy can still work, I'm sure of it, and he just needs a formatted match where he can use psychology and sell like a man for Jericho's shitty offense. I don't like his current appearances, but I think the guy can go in the ring, and him sticking around wouldn't be so damned bad if he'd loosen up and stop trying to act his age.

[Guest Just call me Dan]

Basically my point was these gimmick matches are bullshit and shouldn't even be suggested as having Michaels be a part of them. I think the Mania match with Jericho is the true test of whether he is worth a shit. None of these other really matter.

[Guest notJames]

If a high-profile wrestler can't wrestle every week (especially at house shows which are so important to the company), or go out and be truly entertaining every week, or help elevate the young guys in the locker room who desperately need to be built up for the health and longevity of the company, then he is useless to me.

 

Yep, that pretty much sums it up about HBK for me.

 

As far as his past accomplishments and accolades, that shit don't matter in the here and now. To paraphrase Janet Jackson, "I know he used to do good things for the company, but what has he done for it lately?"

[Guest SP-1]

I don't even know if I'd call Shawn high profile anymore though. Booker T is higher on the card now, and all Shawn does is run-in to screw up Jericho's plans. He's just a big guy that gets a pop and is there. We see him what . . . once a RAW now?

[Guest Dangerous A]

There's a good question to ask here: Is HBK/Jericho or any other Mania match going to be a gimmick match?

[Guest bob_barron]

I think they may make HBK/Jericho a streetfight or Commonwealth Connection/Dudleyz a tables match.

 

It looks they're pushing something with the FBI and Los Guerreros/Rikishi so I could also see that match being gimmicked somehow

[Guest Just call me Dan]

I doubt it. The women's match may be, but I think they are just going with a whole bunch of plain matches like they did with X-8.

[Guest SP-1]

I'm hoping that Jericho gets Michaels to accept a Retirement Match.

[Guest jester]

HBK will retire under the same circumstances Hogan will. When he is sufficiently crippled or dead, or he pisses off Vince.

 

And still have strong doubts about him putting over Jericho at WM. But we'll see and I'll be happy to admit I am wrong if it happens.

[Guest Just call me Dan]

Well considering that Hogan/Vince now has that stipulatio, that possibility looks pretty bad. HHH whacked him in the back with a SLEDGEHAMMER and he just came walsing back 3 months later. Good luck, Chris.

[Guest bob_barron]

If HBK wins I'm seriously going to LOSE it in the movie theatre- I almost went nutso bonkers (in a bad way) when he caused Y2J to be eliminated.

 

But if Jericho makes him his personal bitch and beats him- then it's all good

[Guest Just call me Dan]

Well when watching how shawn was eliminated from the Rumble, I'll give Chris a pretty good chance. Looking at the reasoning behind that spot on shawn's part, it was all because he didn't want to wrestle, but damn Jericho looked really strong in that match, I must admit.

[Guest Choken One]

Should Shawn Retire? No, It's his choice to stay.

 

However, what does he have to stay for? He got ONE last run with the title...Beat his buddy in **** match that we didn't expect and didn't get hurt...he spreaded His religous across the locker room...So he has effectivly done everything...Oh yeah ONE LAST THING LEFT!

 

He needs to put over an Young talent...He has KINDA started to give Jeff the rub but not enough...Likely I am expecting him to face Jericho and Lose in Streetfight...And him to return after J.D and sign a Retirement Match for KOTR. He jobs and Gives a Farewell Speech the next night but Jericho cuts him off telling him to get off his show...he attacks him but Austin comes out (The new champion) and they brawl...Austin double stuns Jericho...an HBK gets ONE last Superkick in...Austin and Jericho shake hands and HBK waves to the fans and we never see him again except with Pat Robertson on GODVIEW.

[Guest Redhawk]

But what happened to this debilitating back injury he's supposed to have? I could have sworn everyone said he was all fucked up and wouldn't be able to even think of wrestling this long.

[Guest SP-1]

He hasn't really wrestled this long though. He's had . . . four matches? If you count the Rumble. He just comes out for PPV every great now and then, really.

[Guest Choken One]

HBK really worked on getting that Back in only 75% shape...He has only had 2 straight Up matches...The other two were either short or he didn't do much activity...

[Guest Brian]

The one hour ballet is perhaps the most overrated match in the history of wrestling.

 

Comparing Shawn to Regal, Shawn had more top of the line matches but his work was mainly hit or miss. Regal at the high point of his career in England was more of a ring general, a stronger mat worker, a classic brawler, and a better storyteller in the ring. Not to take away from Shawn...

[Guest Choken One]

Please, I've seen those Regal matches and they STILL BORE motheruck out my dog...who gets excited at the sight of his own poop. So what does that say?

 

Even Shawn's worst matches were better then MOST of regal's best matches because Regal just SUCKS out all the energy and heat of ANYTHING when he gets in that ring...

[Guest Trivia247]

he is already semi retired, he still got some juice left for the ring, but he doesn't seem to be able to finish a TV match, not even show up till the end of other peoples matches...... You can't be a Prime time wrestler these days by just being a PPV employee didnt work for Hogan and it shouldn't work for HBK.

[Guest Brian]

It says your dog doesn't understand psychology. Shawn outside of gimmicks doesn't have a whole lot of good matches, and those are generally all the same match. I've seen Regal in some of the most vicious brawls. I've seen him in chain-style matches. I've seen him work the mat, top of the line. Regal was much more proficient than Michaels.

[Guest Goodear]

What kind of Bizarro World am I in that career midcarder William Regal is considered better than Shawn Michaels? Regal has sucked since being WCW television champion and working about thirty million draws in a row. There has been no wrestler awarded more for doing less by the Internet wrestling community. So he had a good brawl or three with Fit Finlay. He never brawled that well with anyone else and I have something like ten years of watching the guy to prove it.

 

This whole nonsense about Michaels only wrestling one way and only well in gimick matches is blatantly false. Did The Rockers not have a bunch of good matches with The Orient Express, The Hart Foundation, and The Brainbusters? Did Shawn Michaels himself not have good singles matches with Owen, Bret, Ted DiBiase, Sid, Diesel, Mankind and Vader with not a single gimmick in site? Look at these matches and tell me they are all the same.

 

And what the hell is all this nonsense about good matches not counting if there is gimmick attached anyway? It still takes a whole lot of talent to make a ladder match work. Otherwise, Jeff Hardy and a host of independant talents would be bigger than god by now. Razor and Shawn put on one of the best events ever, regardless of whether or not a ladder was involved shouldn't take away from it.

[Guest bob_barron]

I haven't seen his British work but I'll take Brian's word for it.

 

Regal IS NOT an IWC darling. No one here seems to like him except for me.

 

has sucked since being WCW television champion and working about thirty million draws in a row.

 

Those fifteen minutes were awesome and it's not like they're his fault.

 

Check out some of his awesome draws with AA, Dustin and Bulldog

[Guest Goodear]

And then check out his incredibly crappy ones with Steamboat and Pillman where Regal took the entire offense for twenty minutes and let them have rallys in the last 60 seconds. The Bulldog one was a little better but was poorly timed since Regal had to kick out of the running powerslam. Basically the reign was crap since he never could actually defeat anyone and as soon as the announcer called the first time check, you knew what sort of crap you were in for...

[Guest bob_barron]

Have you seen his matches in summer of 93? They had a great match on WCW Main Event and then had a rematch week later that had Paul Orndorff interference.

 

The Starrcade draw was alright but Steamboat wrestled like a moron

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Regal still rules. He goes on a really crappy wrestling show and slaps people about. Whats not to like?

[Guest Goodear]

I can't claim to have an encyclopedic memory of people's entire wrestling history match by match Bob. Especially since I really didn't care for Regal that much even then. Basically I remember Regal always tieing the other guy up until the late rally that was always a second too late (amazingly). The only times I really cared about Regal was when Finley came in and kicked his face in and when Larry Zybszko (of all people) beat him at Slamboree. Everything else was ... oh its Regal... time for a draw.