Undertaker shoots on Austin, Hogan

[cawthon777 0]

A Nothing? If I recall he was pretty much all over Primetime tv in 1999 and was often talked about (at least his Santanic gimmick)...So he has been on the mainstream before.

 

and for holding down people, I don't want to open up the 2492343578th thred bout politics...but Taker is CERTAINTLY isn't the ONLY POLICTICAL PERSON AROUND. Austin, HHH, Flair, Rhodes, And fuck many more.

 

There is NOTHING wrong with Playing Politics...You get NOWHERE in life by sitting back and not playing the game.

How much did Taker pay you to defend him against the smarks? I could use a good paying job myself.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

There is NOTHING wrong with Playing Politics...You get NOWHERE in life by sitting back and not playing the game.

And this is different from Austin taking off because "things didn't go his way"... how?

 

They (as in WWE) ended up crawling back to him and hyped up his return on PPV and on TV. That didn't happen quite as much with Taker one month before. And when Taker did return to Smackdown, it didn't make a lick of change on the show or on how many people watched. NOT so with Austin and RAW.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

He was all over primetime merely for his character NOT completly because of his relatiship with Austin...There were alot of pieces done just about the Santaic Gimmick of his...Which means he was a big part of that WWF Boom in the late 90's...U can't deny that he wasn't a factor in the boom...

There are things that draw you TO watching: Austin defying the rules, Rocky's arrogance, etc..

 

then..

 

There are things that make you flip the fucking channel: Taker chanting to Satan, the entire unholy wedding angle, HHH humping a corpse..

[Guest Banky]

So Choken, you'd rather have had Austin stay around last year, hold down Benoit, Guerrero, and everyone he could because he was angry at management? Would you rather him be a miserable twit and bore you every week because he was unmotivated? Do you like Gewitz' writing? Do you like anything about RAW? I'm sure the answer to all those questions is no. So why should Austin break his fucking back for a company who is not putting as much effort into him, as he was for them. I respect Austin a whole helluva lot more than someone who sticks around, stabs people in the back, and talks shit behidn their back. He was a man about what he did. He shared his problems with the WWE a few times, they ignored him, he walked. So what? Did he get paid during his time off? No. I don't understand why ANYONE would be mad at Austin. Are wrestlers not allowed to have a spine anymore? Should they get walked over and treated like garbage? Austin said 'fuck you' to Vince McMahon. Its something every wrestler has ALWAYS wanted to say to him in the past. McMahon forgot who brought him to the dance. Now, after ratings fell, he knows. Austin did the right thing, I respect him immesnly, and now he'll be treated how he always should have.

[Guest AndrewTS]

He was all over primetime merely for his character NOT completly because of his relatiship with Austin...There were alot of pieces done just about the Santaic Gimmick of his...Which means he was a big part of that WWF Boom in the late 90's...U can't deny that he wasn't a factor in the boom...

There are things that draw you TO watching: Austin defying the rules, Rocky's arrogance, etc..

 

then..

 

There are things that make you flip the fucking channel: Taker chanting to Satan, the entire unholy wedding angle, HHH humping a corpse..

I agree. I don't think that there was ever anyone who cared to watch that crap--it was just an attempt to get cheap publicity. It worked to an extent, I think.

 

The Katie Vick angle didn't, though. It failed on every conceivable level.

[NYU 0]

We could debate forever about the whole fucking thing and Politics...But here is where I draw the motherfucking line...

 

I respect HHH as a Human Being more the Steve Williams. For one simple reason...Triple H doesn't Hit Stephanie. Williams, A piece of shit that he is...Attack his own wife and RAN from the motherfucking cops like the pussified shit he is. Bottom Line...No Arguement. Don't even THINK about defending those actions. I might be entertained by Steve Austin the performer and character but The Human being, i have ZERO respect for.

I'm confused. Do we know FOR SURE the extent to which Austin actually hit his wife ? I mean, are we talking 2 black eyes, a fat lip, and bruises all over the body ? Or Austin got extremely angry, and gave her a slap on the thigh or something ? Agreed, that it's disgusting he would hit a woman, but don't crucify someone like that when:

 

a) We don't know the extent of the injuries

and

b) We don't know what provoked it.

 

For all we know, she could have slapped him in the face, he pushed her back, and she called it abuse. Nobody truly knows, so what the hell is all the "Fuck Austin" speculation about ?

[Guest My Eyebrow is on fire]

A smart is just a mark with a computer.

Are you saying CRZ is the intellectual equivalent of the mildly retarded man who sits at my sports bar every PPV and believe wrestling is real?

[Guest My Eyebrow is on fire]

He is a fucking prima donna that threw a fit because he didn't get what he wanted.

we all crucify him...

You're an idiot.

 

A prima donna is someone who throws hissy fits, believes they are justified in doing so and should be above consequences, because they are just so great.

 

Austin resigned himself and submitted to the consequences (by having a paycut and risking release), took his court case and probation like a man and admits he has problems.

[Guest My Eyebrow is on fire]

I respect HHH as a Human Being more the Steve Williams. For one simple reason...Triple H doesn't Hit Stephanie. Williams,

Austin committed a horrible crime, and is paying the price that this great country has ordered him to pay. He's apologized and is trying to redeem himself. Would you prefer he be shot dead in the street!?!

 

Give the man a fucking chance to make a living and prove he's worthy of rehabilitation, asshole. I bet you'd want a second chance if someone brought your dirty laundy to the forefront.

 

A piece of shit that he is...Attack his own wife and RAN from the motherfucking cops like the pussified shit he is.

 

Would you prefer he shot the whole police force down Gangsta Rap/Rambo style?

 

You're a moron.

[Guest Austin3164life]

So Choken, you'd rather have had Austin stay around last year, hold down Benoit, Guerrero, and everyone he could because he was angry at management? Would you rather him be a miserable twit and bore you every week because he was unmotivated? Do you like Gewitz' writing? Do you like anything about RAW? I'm sure the answer to all those questions is no. So why should Austin break his fucking back for a company who is not putting as much effort into him, as he was for them. I respect Austin a whole helluva lot more than someone who sticks around, stabs people in the back, and talks shit behidn their back. He was a man about what he did. He shared his problems with the WWE a few times, they ignored him, he walked. So what? Did he get paid during his time off? No. I don't understand why ANYONE would be mad at Austin. Are wrestlers not allowed to have a spine anymore? Should they get walked over and treated like garbage? Austin said 'fuck you' to Vince McMahon. Its something every wrestler has ALWAYS wanted to say to him in the past. McMahon forgot who brought him to the dance. Now, after ratings fell, he knows. Austin did the right thing, I respect him immesnly, and now he'll be treated how he always should have.

*clap clap clap clap clap clap*

 

Heh, we're back to the "Why Austin isn't/is a prima donna" thread. First off, when he left and news broke out, TSM was 60% against him, and the rest were for him but were not very vocal about it. Secondly, Austin did a horrible thing in hitting Debra, but he went to court, admitted his problems to the country and fans, and is paying for it with probation. Finally, Austin left because he knew that the WWE was half-assing angles and not treating the Austin character right at the time, by scheduling him to job to Lesnar three hours before Raw started. Like he said in his article, there needs to be more control given back to the wrestlers, in order for the business to thrive. Not some pencil pusher with glasses and no in-depth knowledge about pro-wrestling.

 

Undertaker needs to realize he isn't really worth a lot to the WWE, and it wouldn't hurt them if he retired anyway. Fans cheer him out of respect for the "Dead Man" character people liked 6-7 years ago. He is very much past his prime in the ring, and he was never very good to begin with. I don't hate Undertaker, but it won't make a difference to many people what he does right now.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

First off, Eyebrow, this ain't NHB so don't get off calling people morons for expressing their opinions.

 

Secondly, I'm with Taker on the Austin walking out issue. However, like a few of you have stated, Austin admitted what he did was wrong but in his mind he saw no other possible way out. Banky made a very good point in that he'd only be around holding down Guerrero & Benoit due to his resentment towards the management if he stayed, so it was probably a good thing he actually did take off for a while so he could get his head on straight.

 

In terms of Taker hanging up his boots when he cannot do what the Undertaker is supposed to do, well I honestly don't see THAT much of a difference between Undertaker now and Undertaker 5 years ago. If you can name me one Undertaker match where it wasnt the OTHER guy making him look fantastic, then I'll admit that he should retire.

 

Yes, he sucks in the ring, but he always has. However, it's not like he's at Hogan level yet with his brawling and the fans still like to cheer him, which in turn means he entertains them to some degree, which is what pro wrestling is all about.

 

Just because YOU as a person are not entertained doesn't mean the man should quit on the merit of your opinion.

 

Majority rules.

 

UYI

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

His mobility is shit, for one. He's never been that fast, but five years ago he wasn't quite this plodding.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

He's always been plodding whenever he has had to be the one to set the pace...

 

WWF 1995

WWF Wrestlemania 13 1997

Who am i kidding? ANY other WWF match he was in where it wasn't against a superstar like Austin, Foley, Hitman or Shawn Michaels.

 

UYI

[Guest Steviekick]

I was merely saying that Undertaker's position was still high in 1995 and was STILL over dispite all the bullshit...He had every right to jump ship if he wanted to but he stayed loyal and didn't throw fits like Mr. Prima Donna

Undertaker could have left, but he would have also left behind his name, look, and character. All there would be left is "Mean" Mark Calloway.

 

His loyalty was based on the fact that so much of who he is as a wrestler is owned by someone else. Aside from the initial pop from his debut, he propably would have floundered around in WCW due to the fact that so much of his wrestler career is character driven. If they did anything remotely similar to the Taker gimmick, WCW would have been sued.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Isn't Taker basically playing "Mean Mark" right now anyway?

 

Well, maybe not exactly, but short hair, playing just a guy who used to be the Undertaker character. Aside from the name and a few hints of his old gimmick (Dead Man, Inc. and other crap he rambles about in his boring promos) he's nothing like the old Taker.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

Who wants him to be like the old Taker though? The gimmick has been recycled thousands of times from his inital debut through to 1999 where it just started to get WEIRD with the whole crucifixtion shit etc.

 

We'd be being subjected to MORE bullshit if he had that gimmick now instead of the current one he carries. It is nothing unique or revolutionary, but it is better than being treated like 4 year olds being told 'scary stories'.

 

UYI

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

He's not that different, either.

 

Sure, the costume and music have changed, but the base character's still there. The no-selling, the Tombstone, the mannerisms..

[Guest AndrewTS]

That isn't the point. The point was that Taker probably could have left for WCW and taken a risk on a new gimmick rather than trying to rip off his WWF persona. However, Bisch didn't want to take that risk, so he stayed.

 

Yet, today he's abandoned that persona but is still over.

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

Indeed many of his deadman traits are still very much intact.

 

What shits me is those who state it's okay for him to no-sell because Vince has had him doing it his whole career. All it shows is Undertaker's ignorance towards change and adaptation.

 

See Angle, Kurt.

 

UYI

[Guest Respect The 'Taker]

That isn't the point. The point was that Taker probably could have left for WCW and taken a risk on a new gimmick rather than trying to rip off his WWF persona. However, Bisch didn't want to take that risk, so he stayed.

 

Yet, today he's abandoned that persona but is still over.

Without the deadman gimmick, Taker would just be the equivilant of Test.

 

..No thanks.

 

UYI

[Guest AndrewTS]

He's not that different, either.

 

Sure, the costume and music have changed, but the base character's still there. The no-selling, the Tombstone, the mannerisms..

He sold more when he was in full character, he uses the Last Ride for the most part (besides, finishers are often carried over anyway regardless of gimmick or character), and he uses different mannerisms. The "fist up" pose, for example. Hell, play SD: SYM and tell me his mannerisms haven't changed.

 

And he's been doing the rope walk since his Mean Mark days, so that isn't just a Taker thing.

[Guest AndrewTS]

That isn't the point.  The point was that Taker probably could have left for WCW and taken a risk on a new gimmick rather than trying to rip off his WWF persona.  However, Bisch didn't want to take that risk, so he stayed.

 

Yet, today he's abandoned that persona but is still over.

Without the deadman gimmick, Taker would just be the equivilant of Test.

 

..No thanks.

 

UYI

Taker is more boring to me than Test.

 

At least Test promos are short.

[Guest Steviekick]

Without the deadman gimmick, Taker would just be the equivilant of Test.

 

..No thanks.

Brilliance. The most ingenious comment ont the topic:headbang:

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Basically, I couldn't give a shit what either men do at home. It doesn't effect me. Steve Austin can beat his wife, kids, small animals, retards, whatever...it doesn't matter to me because I don't see it. If Steve Austin was doing these things on TV, then I would be bothered, but what he does in his personal life doesn't effect my enjoyment of watching him on TV. Steve Austin is an entertainer and he entertains me, I ain't looking for him to be a role model.

 

I like how some people are taking the "Steve Austin deserves to die for slapping his wife" route. It really amuses me. Who knows what went on between the two of them. Who knows which other wrestlers/people beat their wife and never get found out. Steve Austin did a bad thing, but it's in the past.

 

In the same way, Undertaker could be the nicest guy ever, but it wouldn't stop him from sucking.

 

At the end of the day, Steve Austin is the biggest name in wrestling, Undertaker is a nobody. Taker should shut the fuck up and go home.

[Guest humongous2002]

A Nothing? If I recall he was pretty much all over Primetime tv in 1999 and was often talked about (at least his Santanic gimmick)...So he has been on the mainstream before.

 

and for holding down people, I don't want to open up the 2492343578th thred bout politics...but Taker is CERTAINTLY isn't the ONLY POLICTICAL PERSON AROUND. Austin, HHH, Flair, Rhodes, And fuck many more.

 

There is NOTHING wrong with Playing Politics...You get NOWHERE in life by sitting back and not playing the game.

How much did Taker pay you to defend him against the smarks? I could use a good paying job myself.

Choken is nothing but a nimrod and i personally think he is one of those guys that like to get into forums just to argue with people for no reason or logic behind his thoughts, and about Taker talking crap about Austin is llike the pot calling the kettle black, Taker should be the last one to open his mouth.

[Guest SP-1]

Austin left and that was unprofessional. He got into some legal troubles and that wasn't good. He hit a dark time in his life overall, was frustrated, and made some bad choices.

 

So have I. And you have to. Don't even try and deny that. Each and every one of us does it, not in those same ways and not those same choices but the severity of stress and mindset have probably been similar.

 

But, as others have pointed out, Austin submitted to the legal consequences, and he's done what he has to do to be in the ring again. I respect him for that a hell of a lot more than I did before. He admitted his mistakes, and he's never hesitated to speak his mind in one way or another. I don't call that pussified, I'd say overall he's proven to have quite a bit of maturity commanding his daily living.

 

As for Taker . . . well, much like when he's on my television, I have no comment.

[Guest humongous2002]

Austin is not perfect he is human like everybody else and he made a stupid mistake lets just leave it at that.

[Guest jester]

There is NOTHING wrong with Playing Politics...You get NOWHERE in life by sitting back and not playing the game.

Actually, I would have to say that sitting at home was part of the game, and Austin played and won. They brought him back in after making a point of saying that he burned bridges and it was all over. They blinked, he didn't.

 

I also don't think seniority should count for everything. Especially in the wrestling business where half the problems stem from a refusal to change. Really, it should be the Golden Rule, as in "if it makes us gold, it rules." Austin has made more gold for them than anyone else. Therefore, he should rule. If that means kissing his ass, they should do it until the day he doesn't make gold anymore. It's just good business. Dirty, yes. But good business.

 

At present, Raw ratings are up, and Austin is the only reasonable explanation. If ratings stay high and business does better, then they should know to jump when Austin says so. If the ratings go back down and business doesn't improve, the day has arrived when Austin costs more gold than he makes. So his role should be adjusted accordingly, even if that means firing him.

 

As for personal issues, I can see why people would hate Austin for walking out and the assault on his wife. Unfortunately, until it enters into the business equation, it's a none issue to WWE. Vince let Snuka wrestle after he probably KILLED his girlfriend. Vince would let Jeffery Dahmer wrestle if he thought he could make some money from it.

[Guest BobbyWhioux]

As for personal issues, I can see why people would hate Austin for walking out and the assault on his wife. Unfortunately, until it enters into the business equation, it's a none issue to WWE. Vince let Snuka wrestle after he probably KILLED his girlfriend. Vince would let Jeffery Dahmer wrestle if he thought he could make some money from it.

Jeffrey Dahmer? No thanks. Like we really need ANOTHER "Dead Man" stinking up on the ring. Seriously, if you think Undertaker's mobility has degenerated...'tain't nothing compared to what's happened to Jeff's.

 

Okay, all snidey irreverent nitpicking aside [Dahmer died in 95], you make a cynical but valid point.

 

Austin fills Vince's coiffers. That means that Austin gets to play by a special set of rules. Is it "right" or "fair" ? Probably not. But star players commonly get special treatment because they spin the turnstiles and make money for their handlers. Steve Austin, Barry Bonds, Michael Jordan, etc.

 

Nobody else could pull off what Austin did (walking out and in the process showing Vince up) and get away with it. Austin is in a unique position amongst WWE superstars. When he negotiates with Vince, Austin holds the cards/commodities Vince does not have and feels he needs. With everyone else, it's the other way around.

[Guest El Psycho Diablo]

As for personal issues, I can see why people would hate Austin for walking out and the assault on his wife.  Unfortunately, until it enters into the business equation, it's a none issue to WWE.  Vince let Snuka wrestle after he probably KILLED his girlfriend.  Vince would let Jeffery Dahmer wrestle if he thought he could make some money from it.

Jeffrey Dahmer? No thanks. Like we really need ANOTHER "Dead Man" stinking up on the ring. Seriously, if you think Undertaker's mobility has degenerated...'tain't nothing compared to what's happened to Jeff's.

 

Okay, all snidey irreverent nitpicking aside [Dahmer died in 95], you make a cynical but valid point.

 

Austin fills Vince's coiffers. That means that Austin gets to play by a special set of rules. Is it "right" or "fair" ? Probably not. But star players commonly get special treatment because they spin the turnstiles and make money for their handlers. Steve Austin, Barry Bonds, Michael Jordan, etc.

 

Nobody else could pull off what Austin did (walking out and in the process showing Vince up) and get away with it. Austin is in a unique position amongst WWE superstars. When he negotiates with Vince, Austin holds the cards/commodities Vince does not have and feels he needs. With everyone else, it's the other way around.

One possible exception: The Rock.

 

Now that he's got the rights to the name..Vince needs him more than Rock needs Vince..imo.