Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 8, 2003 (edited) No because that same decade the Braves beat the Yankees in the World Series. (I can appreciate THAT ) I think winning 11 division titles in a row is a HUGE accomplishment and this day and age of free agency and trades and all that and I'm happy I got to witness one World Series victory of him. Do I wish there had been more- of course. But I'm happy with the fact that in my lifetime I got to see them win a World Series. Now can we go back to mocking Griffey? Edited March 8, 2003 by bob_barron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted March 8, 2003 It wasn't built FOR him...He was saying the Field is built for his hitting stlye...It means GAB is fitted for Junior. (Like Safeco would've been) Again, What does Atlanta have to SHOW for it's 11 titles? One fucking Championship. The Reds have won more world series and have the discint acomplishment of being the 1st major leauge team and the ONLY undefeated team mind you... (Sure It was 125 years ago but still) In 15 years NO ONE will be able to name anyone from the Atlanta 11 other then Glavine, Maddux, and maybe Jones...No one ls going to remember anything about these guys other then They were only the epitome of choke. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 8, 2003 How are the epitome of choke? They rarely blew a big lead or anything in every series they've played in (except for 2000) they've competitive and played till the very end. It's not like once the playoffs started they began to suck ass. I'm proud of the 11 division titles in a row, the 5 NL Pennants and the one great World Series. People will remember the great pitching we had and memorable moments like Sid slid. What have the Reds in the past 11 years? 1995- get swept into next week by the Braves. Pretty sad when Mike Devereaux is the MVP of that series. 1999- Lose one game playoff to the Mets. 2000 (I think)- Trade for Ken Griffey, Jr. Nothing good happens Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 8, 2003 I think winning 11 division titles in a row is a HUGE accomplishment It may be, but when you follow it up with nothing, there really is no reason to care. In 15 years NO ONE will be able to name anyone from the Atlanta 11 other then Glavine, Maddux, and maybe Jones...No one ls going to remember anything about these guys other then They were only the epitome of choke. I'd have to agree with that. Guys like Maddux and Glavine will be rememvered for individual accomplishments and maybe that they were on the Braves, but that's about it. A truley special team (The Big Red Machine, The Dynasty Yankees) will have it's players remembered as creating the best team in baseball (of it's time) for the rest of baseball history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted March 8, 2003 You are trying to Justify 11 straight champions and yet only ONE Title...as NOT choking? They blew it every year, They couldn't save for 1995, DO IT ALL. The Reds History stands far ahead of Atlanta. The Big Red Machine is still compared to Murders Row...Atlanta Braves won 11 straight titles....Good, that's great but when you have nothing to show for it...THAT isn't good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 8, 2003 The Reds History stands far ahead of Atlanta. The Big Red Machine is still compared to Murders Row. Hell, I forgot about Murderer's Row. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 8, 2003 I'm not saying the 11 titles is better then the Big Red Machine or Murderers Row. I just think it's a huge accomplishment and winning only once is nothing to be ashamed of. When did I say the Braves have a deeper history then the Reds? I didn't. We do have something to show for it- A 1995 World Series trophy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 8, 2003 I think winning 11 division titles in a row is a HUGE accomplishment It may be, but when you follow it up with nothing, there really is no reason to care. In 15 years NO ONE will be able to name anyone from the Atlanta 11 other then Glavine, Maddux, and maybe Jones...No one ls going to remember anything about these guys other then They were only the epitome of choke. I'd have to agree with that. Guys like Maddux and Glavine will be rememvered for individual accomplishments and maybe that they were on the Braves, but that's about it. A truley special team (The Big Red Machine, The Dynasty Yankees) will have it's players remembered as creating the best team in baseball (of it's time) for the rest of baseball history. That's where we disagree. The great rallies of 1991 and 1993 (and partially 1995), the huge battles with the Mets in 1999 and 2000- There's a lot of history and great memories packed into those great teams. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 8, 2003 I just think it's a huge accomplishment and winning only once is nothing to be ashamed of. I'd have to say it is. All those blown opportunities. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 8, 2003 The only year two years we should be ashamed about were 1998 and 2000. 1998 was where Bobby Cox went senile and thought he had the best bench in the world and that cost us the series v. the Padres. 2000- Well yea. That was the most surreal Braves series ever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 8, 2003 I think winning 11 division titles in a row is a HUGE accomplishment It may be, but when you follow it up with nothing, there really is no reason to care. In 15 years NO ONE will be able to name anyone from the Atlanta 11 other then Glavine, Maddux, and maybe Jones...No one ls going to remember anything about these guys other then They were only the epitome of choke. I'd have to agree with that. Guys like Maddux and Glavine will be rememvered for individual accomplishments and maybe that they were on the Braves, but that's about it. A truley special team (The Big Red Machine, The Dynasty Yankees) will have it's players remembered as creating the best team in baseball (of it's time) for the rest of baseball history. That's where we disagree. The great rallies of 1991 and 1993 (and partially 1995), the huge battles with the Mets in 1999 and 2000- There's a lot of history and great memories packed into those great teams. You can say that about ANY perpetual contender. You just can't really say who was actually ON those teams 20 years later. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 8, 2003 The only year two years we should be ashamed about were 1998 and 2000. 1998 was where Bobby Cox went senile and thought he had the best bench in the world and that cost us the series v. the Padres. 2000- Well yea. That was the most surreal Braves series ever You also blew it big time in 1996. And 2002 doesn't embarass you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 8, 2003 1996 SUCKED but I swear there was shoddy umpiring in some of those games. Call me a whiner but I recall going WTF? at some of those calls. The umps also screwed us v. Hernandez in 1997 but we should've been able to beat them even with Livian's huge strike zone. I'm not embarrassed at all by 2002. We pitched to Bonds and got beat doing it. I'm glad they didn't pussy out and IBB him. It's sad that those had to be Glavine's last games but aside from him absolutely blowing it- most of the team played pretty well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted March 8, 2003 If Griffey's on my fantasy team I'll root for him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted March 8, 2003 That's where we disagree. The great rallies of 1991 and 1993 (and partially 1995), the huge battles with the Mets in 1999 and 2000- There's a lot of history and great memories packed into those great teams. While Atlanta and New York may look back on those rallys...America could've cared less. Atlanta was never a popular team during their run. They were dealt with apathy "Oh, Braves Again, Great, I'll just watch Golden Girls Reruns". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 8, 2003 1996 SUCKED but I swear there was shoddy umpiring in some of those games. Call me a whiner but I recall going WTF? at some of those calls. Yeah. In The Braves favor, IIRC. The umpires have always and will always give Maddux an enormous strike zone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 8, 2003 I disagree. Marquis Grissom was safe in Game 6- nuff said. While they will always be percieved as the team that could only win once- I think what they did was a much greater accomplishment then anyone will ever give them credit for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 8, 2003 But what I'm trying to say, Bob, is don't complain. The Braves got alot and usually do get a lot from the Umps (I don't remember the play) I personally feel the Yanks were fucked by the Umps in 95, but I don't really say anything) Wasn't that the year where Maddux got everything that wasn't a wild pitch called a strike, and when an umpire was questioned, he responded with one of the most ridiculous statements ever, something along the lines of "Well, that's the way he pitches." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 8, 2003 I don't remember much of Yankees v. Mariners other then absolutely going batshit at the end of game 5. Complaining about umpiring is very petty I agree. Maddux and Glavine also got a lot of strikes called on them because the catchers would make sure to try to and position their glove and move the ball to make it look like a strike. (I saw this on Sportscenter once) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted March 8, 2003 The Big Red Machine is still compared to Murders Row... Not by anyone with a whit of common sense and a good idea of baseball history. The 1927 Yankees would have wiped the field with the Big Red Machine, then gone out for a good night of drinking and womanizing afterwards. As for Griffey, I think if he can stay healthy, he can still have a good season. I'd actually love to see him come to Baltimore, with the short RF porch and the ability to DH him and give him a rest from the field when he needs one. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted March 8, 2003 I think People compared the BIG RED to Murders Row not for the talent but merely for the Popularity and Dominance. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Dames 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2003 I agree with AngleSault, which strangely I find myself doing more often as of late. The '95 Yankees/Mariners series is still implanted in my memory like I just got out of Rekall. I'll forget Griffey rounding third at top speed, denying my favorite player of all time, Don Mattingly, his last chance for a ring. Never. Anyway, the Braves of '91 were great to me. The awesome series with the Pirates that came down to the last out, the series with the Twins, I rooted for them. Then they started winning constantly...and choking. Hell, I'll even go as far as to say that the Braves didn't beat the Mets in 2000, Kenny Rogers singlehandedly handed them a World Series birth that year. Think about it like this Bob. How would you feel if Chris Benoit got a title shot 11 times, yet was constantly losing? It would really make him look weak. The Braves can win all of the Division Titles they want, they always choke at the end. If you throw in the fact that '95 was the first full year since the strike as well as the first year with the new playoff structure and being in a new division, it was probably just a lack of preparation on the part of everyone else. Dames Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 8, 2003 Hell, I'll even go as far as to say that the Braves didn't beat the Mets in 2000, Kenny Rogers singlehandedly handed them a World Series birth that year. That's horseshit. It was in 1999. The Braves kicked their ass the first three games of the series, lost two close ones and then shut the door on them in a thrilling game 6. They showed the Mets they were the better team in the clutch and cut off or came from behind after all their rallies and ended up winning the game. It showed they were a true championship team and that the Mets were not. Yea Kenny Rogers walked in the winning run but they would've won anyway. How would you feel if Chris Benoit got a title shot 11 times, yet was constantly losing? It's completely different. Benot didn't have to go through a 162 game season, beat out four-seven other teams, and do it year after year. '95 was the first full year since the strike as well as the first year with the new playoff structure and being in a new division, it was probably just a lack of preparation on the part of everyone else. I don't see what difference that makes. They started out slow that year, rallied back and won from the Phillies. Winning under that new playoff structure is even more impressive IMO. They had to contend with the Dodgers in 91, being 11.5 back in 93, the Phillies for the first half of 95, the Mets of 1999 and 2000 and the Phillies again in 2001. Each year they've shown they're a clutch team and can rally back from anything to capture a division title and despite their one world series I think 11 years straight of division titles is very very impressive. Now in 95- In the first round they beat a young Colorado team. In the second round they slaughtered the Reds and made them their personal bitch. And in the World Series they silenced the vaunted Cleveland Indians offence and showed that great pitching will beat great hitting. Did you know Cleveland batted below the Mendoza line during that Series? I don't see how that can be anything but impressive. Tom Glavine's pure dominance of Game 6 is my favourite baseball game of all time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Human Fly Report post Posted March 8, 2003 Talking about Atlanta winning 11 straight division titles and only one World Series is just like people talking about Buffalo going to 4 straight Super Bowls. It's impressive on one hand, but on the other it brands you as a loser. What have the Reds done in the last 11 years? Not a lot. What have the Braves done before the last 11 years? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 8, 2003 Well unlike Buffalo they have a ring to show for it at least Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vern Gagne Report post Posted March 8, 2003 Atlanta won the World Series during a shortened season. That's the only way those choke artist could win anything. j/k Bob The Cincinnati teams of the 70's are overrated, IMO. The lineup was great, but they didn't have that great of a starting staff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 8, 2003 I'll forget Griffey rounding third at top speed, denying my favorite player of all time, Don Mattingly, his last chance for a ring. Never. That's all I was thinking Dames. On a somewhat related funny note, In that game, there was an Asian women holding up a sign that read. "Donnie Strikeout" To this very day, if provoked by someone, I WILL go on a 15 minute obscenity laced rant on her. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 8, 2003 Well Anglesault- Don Mattingly DID used to strike out a lot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 8, 2003 Well Anglesault- Don Mattingly DID used to strike out a lot. We both know his real nickname. I'll leave it at that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 8, 2003 I forget his nickname AS. Is it- Donnie loser? Donnie sideburns? or Donnie never won a world series Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
