EL DANDY~! 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2003 Although it isn't the most ideal experience to some of you, Downhome sent me some stuff, and included on there were some Joshi matches. He said there were three, but I've watched two off the first disc: Manami Toyota and Kayo Noumi vs. Kaoru Ito and someone else (matchlist didn't say, she was a small one, though. Help would be appreciated)-This was REALLY solid. Looking back, I can see some really nice things about the match. Toyota was pretty good in this match, and she and Noumi did a sweet Japanese Ocean Cyclone Doomsday Device. The highspot portion was sick, as was Ito's double stomp off the top. I'm gonna have to watch it again to get a full story, but for my first impression, I liked it. 4-2-93-Akira Hokuto vs. Shinobu Kandori-Wow. This was just an absolutely BRUTAL match. The first two minutes was one of the best opening segments in a match I've ever seen, as Hokuto nailed Kandori with a knockout elbow and berated her on the STICK~!, only to see her arm get TORN APART by Kandori's hammerlock armbar. Then, after Kandori reversed that tombstone on the table and Hokuto got SPIKED, she bled like a muthafucka, and right then and there, I saw my love for joshi puroresu just EXPLODE. The mark on the table was sweet. The Hokuto returned the favor, but Kandori didn't tap a gusher, which saddened me, somewhat. They absolutely whooped each other's ass for half an hour, with Kandori trying more of a submission-based attack as opposed to Hokuto, she tried strikes and big moves. Then, the ending, as they hit all their big moves to build up a HUGELY HOT ENDING, and then Hokuto's desperation big elbow knocks Kandori out for the win and the crowd explodes. This match MADE ME a Joshi fan. I await the great joshi I will watch in the future. So do you guys have any suggestions on what I should go after next? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wildpegasus Report post Posted March 8, 2003 Check out http://www.quebrada.net There are tons of reviews here which I find to be the most liking to my tastes. Pre 1990's- Jaguar Yokota matches are recomended. 1990-1997-There's tons of great stuff here.From 1992 on it seems like almost every AJW card is gold.There's lots of great JWP cards as well. 1997-2001-By the time 1997 rolled around the match quality had definiately dropped.Still, there's great stuff to be found.It's just not as plentiful. Though I haven't seen much from this area Mariko Yoshida matches are reccomended. 2001-My viewing here is limited but it's generally considered a resurgence year in match quality. The Hokuto vs Satomura match was awesome. Momoe was on fire wrestling great matches against Ito and Kaekawa.Aja Kong also had a memorable match with Satomura. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffin Surfer Report post Posted March 8, 2003 Those weren't elbows, Hokuto was actually PUNCHING HER that hard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EL DANDY~! 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2003 Holy fuck, Surfer...my love keeps growing... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RickyChosyu Report post Posted March 8, 2003 Well, I would recommend that you start with the early ninties stuff pre-interpromotional period so that you get aquainted with all the faces and names, and *then* get all the interpromotional stuff. I've heard it said many times before that seeing Hokuto/Kandori right off the bat is akin to seeing 6/3/94 with none of the backstory. Hokuto is not just a great wrestler but a deeply interesting character to watch and it's amazing how much she grew in her relatively short career peak. It probably wouldn't hurt to see a good amount of Kandori's matches before the feud, to get aquainted with her, too. As usual, I'd reccomend you check out the "matches to check out" pinned thread to see all the essential stuff, but the best web site for reviews on Joshi is air raid crash, which is linked on the other pinned thread. You should probably get a few tapes before you go there to get familiar with the names and faces, but once you do that's the best place to find out what to get. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rob Edwards Report post Posted March 8, 2003 Theres 4 events I'd get before any other Dreamrush 92 - The kickoff of the interpromotional period and home to the match many consider to be the best of all time in Ozaki/Kansai Vs Toyota/Yamada and also has a superb Hokuto Vs Inoue match on the undercard Dreamslam I - the card of Hokuto/Kandori but by no means a one match card, most of the matches here are at least ***, one of the 3 best cards ever imo Dreamslam 2 - Held only a few days after Dreamslam and containing the sequel to the Dreamrush 92 main event as well as a bunch of ***+ stuff, another top 3 card Big Egg Wrestling Universe - This has the V Top Woman tourney probably the best one night tourny ever (Aja Kong is awe inspiring) and the rest of the card isn't just filler either but at 23 (I think) matches this one doesn't come cheap, my choice for the greatest card ever Hope that helped Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Agent of Oblivion Report post Posted March 8, 2003 I've heard it said many times before that seeing Hokuto/Kandori right off the bat is akin to seeing 6/3/94 with none of the backstory. Guess what the first AJ match I ever saw was. Yep. I also watched Hokuto/Kandori without any backstory, too. So that's a double whammy, I guess. The thing is, the more stuff I see that led up to both matches, the more I enjoy them, so their stock just rises that much more. Not a good way to go about things, I suppose, but it works. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonflyKid Report post Posted March 8, 2003 I'm not fully caught up but here's what I'd recommend getting as a backstory to Hokuto/Kandori. Dangerous Queen Story -A Hokuto tape that chronicles her early career. It includes a clip of the match where she broke her neck which factors into the table spot in the Dreamslam match. It includes a clipped match against Nakano where Hokuto suffered a shoulder injury, I don't know if it was a work or not but her shoulder has often been a vulnerability in her career that opponents exploit. She also has had knee problems which have worked to her opponent's advantage many times. The tape also features alot of clips of important matches and moments that defined her never quit attitude so it's a must have if you're not going to track down alot of her earlier work where she challenged adversity and developed into the Dangerous Queen. Dream Rush part 1: Hokuto vs. K. Inoue postmatch -Great match and the postmatch stuff between Hokuto and LLPW was significant even if you don't understand Japanese. Hokuto conveys so much emotion that you pick up enough of what's going on to make it interesting. Zenjo vs. LLPW1/24/93 part 2:Hokuto/Shimoda/Mita vs. Saito/Sawai/Handa(LLPW) -Another very good match where Hokuto shows her dominance. The post match stuff between Hokuto and LLPW was great as was the Hokuto/Mita/Shimoda stuff in the locker room afterwards. 4/11/93 Hokuto/Kong vs. Sawai/Kandori -Great match with Hokuto's shoulder factoring in big time. Dreamslam part 3: Hokuto vs. Kandori -Go read Chris' review. Kandori vs. Hokuto 12/6/93 The rematch was great as well, not on the level of DS but still great. Kandori/Hokuto vs. Kong/Nakano 3/27/94 -The rivals had to take on the monsters and produced one of favorite matches ever. DS was the climax but this was also climactical. -Kandori's tough woman backgroud should also be looked into to get of sense of her submission's credibility especially when targeting Hokuto's injuries. -There were also other physical/verbal confrontations between LLPW and Hokuto & company that are worth getting. Hokuto dominates the LLPW women then berates them(Kazama, Kurenai, etc.) so it's Kandori's job to stand up to her for LLPW. The mark on the table was sweet. -The mark was from one of Kandori's knees so I really don't see the sweetness. I usually hate bladejobs, I hate when a wrestler gets hit on top of their had yet bleed from their forehead. Hokuto's blade job added drama but Kandori's was weak including what led up to it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted March 8, 2003 Not as weak as the ENTIRE Toyota/Hokuto 9/2/95 match that you like so much. I can understand marking for Toyota's style (when I first got started, it was what got me hooked), but trying to point out flaws in one match, while ignoring them in a match that isn't in the same galaxy, is hypocritical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffin Surfer Report post Posted March 8, 2003 The mark on the table was sweet. -The mark was from one of Kandori's knees so I really don't see the sweetness. I usually hate bladejobs, I hate when a wrestler gets hit on top of their had yet bleed from their forehead. Hokuto's blade job added drama but Kandori's was weak including what led up to it. In theory the mark was made by Hokuto's head, and they do a pretty decent job of making it appear that way, so it is sweet. Hokuto bladed pretty high, and with all that hair, it's does look like she's bleeding from near the top of her head. I really wouldn't call these flaws in the match, because Hokuto's only human and there some things you just can't do unless your crazy and want a short career. Kandori's blade job was weak when compared with Hokuto, but it's not like she can control how much blood flows out of a cut. Her blade job was significant iin that it was like Hokuto was like you made me bleed, so I'm gonna drag you out of the ring, and hit your head on everything in sight until you bleed. I really wouldn't call that weak, it's not suppose to be scientific wrestling, it's a revenage spot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonflyKid Report post Posted March 8, 2003 I stated recently how I've seen the Hokuto/Toyota's '93 GP and '95 Destiny Climax matches back-to-back and prefered the '93 match. I'd have the 9/95 match at ****1/4 while having the Hokuto/Kandori DS at ****3/4. I do acknowledge the flaws in the 9/2 match, I just brought up the Kandori blade job because it seemed forced, it's a minor nitpick. When I brought up my dislike for bladejobs I wasn't directly criticizing Hokuto's in DS, I thought it was pulled off great and added to the match. I just don't like bladejobs in general. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest permagrinning Report post Posted March 8, 2003 I've heard it said many times before that seeing Hokuto/Kandori right off the bat is akin to seeing 6/3/94 with none of the backstory. Guess what the first AJ match I ever saw was. Yep. I also watched Hokuto/Kandori without any backstory, too. So that's a double whammy, I guess. The thing is, the more stuff I see that led up to both matches, the more I enjoy them, so their stock just rises that much more. Not a good way to go about things, I suppose, but it works. Well, you're not alone. I haven't gotten the back stories but stand alone I can honestly say I've never seen anything to compare with either match. How much more praise can you give than that? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted March 8, 2003 Well, if Ito's partner looked like this.... Then it's Momoe Nakanishi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EL DANDY~! 0 Report post Posted March 9, 2003 The last name sounded like Wakisaba...and she had dark hair...I don't know, I'd like some help... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wolverine Report post Posted March 9, 2003 Miho "Wacky" Wakizawa. Unfortunately, she had to retire due to injury. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CoreyLazarus416 Report post Posted March 9, 2003 In Joshi, where does Megumi Kudo stand? The only Joshi matches I've seen have been Kudo/Toyota from '95 on a TokyoPop FMW tape (Electrified Barbed Wire Deathmatch), and some piece-of-shit Big Japan one that was your average WWE women's match, only with lightbulbs. I only ask because I REALLY like Kudo/Toyota. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rob Edwards Report post Posted March 9, 2003 The mark on the table was sweet. -The mark was from one of Kandori's knees so I really don't see the sweetness. I usually hate bladejobs, I hate when a wrestler gets hit on top of their had yet bleed from their forehead. Hokuto's blade job added drama but Kandori's was weak including what led up to it. I'm going to be forced to defend the mark too, you have to remember this was Japan in 1993 not WWE during the post tough enough era, you gave the fans something like that and they ate it up, if the spot was poorly done I can see the problem but it wasn't like there were 6 inches of space between Hokuta's head and the table or anything, I suppose it all depends how you viewed the match at the time, personally I was totally lost in it by that point and viewed it with child like eyes rather than smarky cynical ones, all in all I thought it was a brilliant addition to the Jujigatame in showing Hokuta's never say die attitude to the match Sorry to ramble but it's one of my favourate spots ever Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonflyKid Report post Posted March 9, 2003 I never said the spot was poorly done and don't think it was, I was pointing out the indentation was made by Kandori's knee and not Hokuto's head and it's obvious by the diameter of that indentation. I don't think they were trying to fool anyone, the camera man is the one who focused in on it and the crowd awed because they thought it was from Hokuto's head. Miho was alot of fun to watch. She was becoming a good wrestler with a great personality that translated well to the viewer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jubuki Report post Posted March 9, 2003 But thinking it's from her head is just part of "Pro-Wrestling Logic." It's like thinking that a vertical suplex hurts the opponent more than the attacker, even though both are hitting the mat hard. It's Bill Watts' explanation that someone throwing a dropkick doesn't get hurt when it hits because they're planning on the bounce off the opponent, but it does hurt when they miss. You can't see worked matches happen these days and not make illogical leaps in judgment. You don't think of Kandori's knee hitting the table - you think of Hokuto's head hitting the table because she isn't in control. Thinking of it some other way when there's virtually no way to point out that it was her knee pretty much goes against our own concessions when it comes to suspension of disbelief. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DragonflyKid Report post Posted March 9, 2003 I don't think the suspension of is belief plays into this because the table damage was unintentional as far as I can tell. If it was something pre-done that maybe the announcers hid under their papers until the piledriver then sold it as if Hokuto's head did the damage then I would have bought it as a means to get over the piledriver's impact. The first time I saw the match I thought it was made by Hokuto's head but then realized the size and depth of it wouldn't be consistent with a head. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rob Edwards Report post Posted March 10, 2003 whether it was intentional or not isn't the issue as far as I'm concerned, for me it worked in the context of the match, if it was hidden by papers then it was a nice spot, if it was a mark made by Kandori's knee then it was smart work on the cameramans part, if you looked at everything in wrestling in damage compared to what impact took place where I doubt you'd be able to enjoy it Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffin Surfer Report post Posted March 10, 2003 I don't think the suspension of is belief plays into this because the table damage was unintentional as far as I can tell. If it was something pre-done that maybe the announcers hid under their papers until the piledriver then sold it as if Hokuto's head did the damage then I would have bought it as a means to get over the piledriver's impact. The first time I saw the match I thought it was made by Hokuto's head but then realized the size and depth of it wouldn't be consistent with a head. But I do believe that the spot was intentional. Because I can recall reading about a match in which Hokuto tombstones somebody on the table, and it leaves the indenture. I'm pretty sure Hokuto has done the spot before. Giving the Dreamslam spot some irony, since it is now Hokuto who gets her head put through the table. If anybody knows for sure, please post the match, because I'm pretty sure it's happened before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
