Guest TheMikeSC Posted March 8, 2003 Report Posted March 8, 2003 According to recent polls, a majority of Germans finds us to be war-mongers. Does nobody else find it ironic that the country responsible for TWO WORLD WARS can find ANYBODY in the world a "war monger"? -=Mike ...A majority of French people probably think we smell bad, too.
Guest TheMikeSC Posted March 8, 2003 Report Posted March 8, 2003 BWAHAHA Do you hav a source? One of the local talk radio hosts (I don't know if he's conservative or not --- he's too wishy-washy to take a stand on anything) mentioned it and I can't remember his source. I just thought it was endlessly hilarious. -=Mike
cawthon777 Posted March 8, 2003 Report Posted March 8, 2003 Okay, Germany has lost all credibility. ...Not that they had much before now.
Guest evenflowDDT Posted March 8, 2003 Report Posted March 8, 2003 You can't hold modern Germans responsible for the actions of the Nazi party. That's just stupid. Countries and people change.
Guest Kotzenjunge Posted March 8, 2003 Report Posted March 8, 2003 The First World War was not Germany's fault. I'm getting really sick of this "Germany doesn't want people to fight? The sky is falling!" stereotype bullshit. The generation involved in the second world war in Germany is quickly disappearing, and the generations since have been very peaceful people.
Guest JMA Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 You can't hold modern Germans responsible for the actions of the Nazi party. That's just stupid. Countries and people change. Exactly.
Guest Vern Gagne Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 The First World War was not Germany's fault. I'm getting really sick of this "Germany doesn't want people to fight? The sky is falling!" stereotype bullshit. The generation involved in the second world war in Germany is quickly disappearing, and the generations since have been very peaceful people. It's almost the opposite in France. Notice how all the pro-American French are older people. They where alive during WWII and witnessed Nazi occupation and can appreciate the US liberating their country.
cawthon777 Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 You can't hold modern Germans responsible for the actions of the Nazi party. That's just stupid. Countries and people change. If it weren't for us, Germany would never have rid itself of the Nazi party and the Berlin Wall never would have come down. And now Schroader is reelected on an anti-American platform... No credibility.
Guest Spicy McHaggis Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 You can't hold modern Germans responsible for the actions of the Nazi party. That's just stupid. Countries and people change. Exactly. But you can hold today's Americans responsible for slavery and the rest of the world's ills?
Urban Warfare Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 Hitler wasn't even German. wasnt he born in austria?
Guest MrRant Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 You can't hold modern Germans responsible for the actions of the Nazi party. That's just stupid. Countries and people change. Exactly. But you can hold today's Americans responsible for slavery and the rest of the world's ills? Yes. Because it is racial. I have always stated that people don't get up in arms about the Roman Empire destroying/conquering various cultures since they were doing it to fellow white people (with some exceptions of course). But we did it to the Native Americans and we are held to blame. I don't feel sorry at all. It's the way history has always worked.
cawthon777 Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 You can't hold modern Germans responsible for the actions of the Nazi party. That's just stupid. Countries and people change. Exactly. But you can hold today's Americans responsible for slavery and the rest of the world's ills? Yes. Because it is racial. I have always stated that people don't get up in arms about the Roman Empire destroying/conquering various cultures since they were doing it to fellow white people (with some exceptions of course). But we did it to the Native Americans and we are held to blame. I don't feel sorry at all. It's the way history has always worked. Today's Americans had no part of slavery. I haven't killed or raped any Native Americans today, have you?
Guest JMA Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 Romans (Italians) are white? That's weird, because my mother's boyfriend is Italian and doesn't think "white" and Italian are the same. So, why are all those with African descent just referred to as "black" while those with European descent have other names (such as Irish, Italian, Scottish, ect)? And the first WW was not Germany's fault. It was all a huge clusterfuck, IMO. We didn't technically even win WWI. We only told our citizens we did. The way the Germans were unfairly treated after WWI led to anti-Americanism. These anti-Americans were eventually the ones who supported radical idiots like Hitler.
Guest Kotzenjunge Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 You can't hold modern Germans responsible for the actions of the Nazi party. That's just stupid. Countries and people change. Exactly. But you can hold today's Americans responsible for slavery and the rest of the world's ills? Sweeping generalizations about beliefs are fun. Since I said pretty much the same thing he did, I'll go ahead and respond to this. I don't hold anyone responsible for slavery besides the actual slaveowners themselves, and they, as well as their human wares are all long dead. To try and guilt-trip people for actions that were perpetrated by people who lived 150 years ago is bullshit. At least the Japanese greivances are sort of valid since there are still many people alive who were subject to internment in the 1940s. As for the Native American/Roman Empire comparison, that's hardly a fair comparison considering that some 1800 years roughly seperate the two eras, with the more recent conquering looked upon poorly because mankind was much more refined and humane by that point, not to mention the differences between Roman Imperial ideologies and those of America. I try and remember that not all people on the Right side of the fence don't think the same, please refrain from trying to homogenize the ideas of the Left into one mindset. If it weren't for us, Germany would never have rid itself of the Nazi party and the Berlin Wall never would have come down. And now Schroader is reelected on an anti-American platform... And this gives them zero credibility? How so? Because he was elected by people who agreed with him on his supposed Anti-American platform? I fear you're confusing anti-war feelings with anti-American feelings. Europeans are sick of armed conflicts, and yes, I will gladly admit that part of their hesitance is due to their heavy investments in the region and Iraq itself, but if preventing war prevents a loss of life on all sides and protects German interests in the region, what's the problem? I don't understand why it's always so wrong for other countries to do things in their own interests, ESPECIALLY if they conflict with ours. More to the point, what is with this attitude of calling in all the favors we've done for countries?
Guest bob_barron Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 We won World War 1. We just didnt sign the Treaty of Versailles cause it was bullshit.
Guest JMA Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 We won World War 1. We just didnt sign the Treaty of Versailles cause it was bullshit. No, we didn't officially win it. Therefore, we didn't win. No matter what spin is put on it the result is still the same.
Guest JMA Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 So who won World War 1? No one. Although, we got a lot more out of it.
Guest bob_barron Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 If no one won World War I then how come Germany surrender and sign the Treaty of Versailles? How come they surrendered to us and signed a seperate treaty?
Guest JMA Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 If no one won World War I then how come Germany surrender and sign the Treaty of Versailles? How come they surrendered to us and signed a seperate treaty? They didn't surrender. We just had better negociaters and they wanted to stop fighting. That's all. Check the history books.
Guest Kingpk Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 The 11/11/1918 Armistice was Germany's surrender, essentially. The US (well, the Congress) didn't like France and England's incredibly harsh military and economic penalties against Germany and didn't want to enter the League of Nations (killing the body right off the bat), so it was never ratified and Germany signed a separate treaty with the US in 1921. I'd like to see where you get that Germany never surrendered.
Guest Kotzenjunge Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 There was no formal surrender, only a ceasement of hostilities. He is right in that regard. An armistice isn't always a concession of defeat, even if in this particual historical instance, it might as well have been.
Guest evenflowDDT Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 You can't hold modern Germans responsible for the actions of the Nazi party. That's just stupid. Countries and people change. Exactly. But you can hold today's Americans responsible for slavery and the rest of the world's ills? Ummm... no. I have no idea where you get that, but Kotz answered that one for me.
Guest Austin3164life Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 And this gives them zero credibility? How so? Because he was elected by people who agreed with him on his supposed Anti-American platform? I fear you're confusing anti-war feelings with anti-American feelings. Europeans are sick of armed conflicts, and yes, I will gladly admit that part of their hesitance is due to their heavy investments in the region and Iraq itself, but if preventing war prevents a loss of life on all sides and protects German interests in the region, what's the problem? I don't understand why it's always so wrong for other countries to do things in their own interests, ESPECIALLY if they conflict with ours. More to the point, what is with this attitude of calling in all the favors we've done for countries? *Runs away thinking Kotz is telepathic and stole his thoughts*
Guest TheMikeSC Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 Romans (Italians) are white? That's weird, because my mother's boyfriend is Italian and doesn't think "white" and Italian are the same. So, why are all those with African descent just referred to as "black" while those with European descent have other names (such as Irish, Italian, Scottish, ect)? And the first WW was not Germany's fault. It was all a huge clusterfuck, IMO. We didn't technically even win WWI. We only told our citizens we did. The way the Germans were unfairly treated after WWI led to anti-Americanism. These anti-Americans were eventually the ones who supported radical idiots like Hitler. Of course, the really ironic part here is that it was the French and British who really turned the screws on Germany post-WW I. Not the U.S -=Mike
Guest TheMikeSC Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 If no one won World War I then how come Germany surrender and sign the Treaty of Versailles? How come they surrendered to us and signed a seperate treaty? They didn't surrender. We just had better negociaters and they wanted to stop fighting. That's all. Check the history books. The German military officers themselves asked the Kaiser to sign the ceasefire. They had to talk him into it. I daresay that it tends to show that Germany thought it was going to lose to WWI. -=Mike
Guest Kingpk Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 We didn't technically even win WWI. We only told our citizens we did. The way the Germans were unfairly treated after WWI led to anti-Americanism. These anti-Americans were eventually the ones who supported radical idiots like Hitler. I echo Mike's statements. France and England wanted to pretty much sterilize Germany militarily and financially. The US disagreed with them on that count (probably because they thought a demoralized and poor populace would turn to ANY ray of sunshine no matter how brutal or extreme.......oh, wait), so that's why the Treaty of Versailles wasn't ratifed by the States. A LOT of historians point to that treaty as one of the major causes of WWII.
Guest Brian Posted March 9, 2003 Report Posted March 9, 2003 Plus we still wanted to be an isolationist power.
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