Guest JMA Report post Posted March 9, 2003 Well, the fact is we didn't offically win WW I. We might have won if the war went on, but we didn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kotzenjunge Report post Posted March 9, 2003 Well, the fact is we didn't offically win WW I. We might have won if the war went on, but we didn't. Please stop trying to argue this. You're wrong. Winners don't extract reparations from countries if THEY AREN'T VICTORIOUS. You're just digging yourself in deeper and deeper, and worse yet, killing any kind of intelligent discussion in a thread AGAIN. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 9, 2003 Please stop trying to argue this. You're wrong. Winners don't extract reparations from countries if THEY AREN'T VICTORIOUS. You're just digging yourself in deeper and deeper, and worse yet, killing any kind of intelligent discussion in a thread AGAIN. No, I'm telling the truth. America did not officially win WWI. This is what the history books say. Sure, America got the better end of the deal and TOLD (via TV) that America was victories and was going to "punish the Germans," but that doesn't mean they won. Check the books. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 9, 2003 An armistice was signed at the end of the war. If you don't what armistice means, it means "A temporary cessation of fighting by mutual consent; a truce." That's from dictionary.com. Now that that's settled, I don't think it is fair to compair Germans today with the fallen Nazi party. Heck, we probably have more neo-Nazis here in America. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kotzenjunge Report post Posted March 9, 2003 Please stop trying to argue this. You're wrong. Winners don't extract reparations from countries if THEY AREN'T VICTORIOUS. You're just digging yourself in deeper and deeper, and worse yet, killing any kind of intelligent discussion in a thread AGAIN. No, I'm telling the truth. America did not officially win WWI. This is what the history books say. Sure, America got the better end of the deal and TOLD (via TV) that America was victories and was going to "punish the Germans," but that doesn't mean they won. Check the books. What book is going to say that television told people in 1918 that America was victorious in the Great War? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Midnight Express83 Report post Posted March 9, 2003 Dude, Germany lost. No if ands or buts about. They fucking lost. They didn't win. There wasn't a truce. There was a defeat. A Truce=Korea. A defeat is just about every other war ever. Germany lost WW1, Germany lost WW2. Germans today don't want war because well Europe is sick of war. 2 World Wars distroyed a big hole in their land and population. Over 50 million people died from War related problems from 1915 to 1945. That is a good sign to keep the guns away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 9, 2003 What book is going to say that television told people in 1918 that America was victorious in the Great War? My mistake. But it was told over some media. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 9, 2003 Germany lost WW1 Wrong. They signed an armistice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Midnight Express83 Report post Posted March 9, 2003 They said Germany lost because Germany lost. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 9, 2003 They said Germany lost because Germany lost. Ugh... THEY SIGNED AN ARMISTICE! That's not a defeat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Midnight Express83 Report post Posted March 9, 2003 If they didn't lose, explain why they paid a shit load of money to other countries? If they didn't lose, explain why boundries pre WW1 didn't stay that way? If they didn't lose, WHY THE FUCK WERE THEY PISSED AT OTHER COUNTRIES BECAUSE THEY WERE TREATED LIKE THEY JUST LOST A WAR? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kingpk Report post Posted March 9, 2003 Why must you nitpick so much? The demands of the Armistice. I see the word "surrender" there 4 times. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 9, 2003 If they didn't lose, explain why they paid a shit load of money to other countries? If they didn't lose, explain why boundries pre WW1 didn't stay that way? If they didn't lose, WHY THE FUCK WERE THEY PISSED AT OTHER COUNTRIES BECAUSE THEY WERE TREATED LIKE THEY JUST LOST A WAR? Because they were so desparate to end the fucking war! They WERE treated like they lost the war! This is one of the reasons that fanatics like Hitler were listened to! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kotzenjunge Report post Posted March 9, 2003 Germany lost WW1 Wrong. They signed an armistice. And they signed a subsequent treaty that was one of the harshest EVER in modern times (post-1815 by my own little mindset) afterward that stripped them of everything but a 100,000 man army, only 125,000 tons of battleships, 30% of their land, required part of their country to be occupied, and had to pay some $100,000,000,000 in reparations, which, in 1918, was a FUCKING LOT OF MONEY. They fell into financial ruin, had the secondworst inflation in history (4 trillion marks equalled one dollar at its height), zero trading partners, political unrest until 1923 and further instability until 1933, and finally, the continued scorn of the international community. They lost the war, much as you have lost this argument, in the worst and most humilitating way possible. Please discontinue your pursuit of this absolutely retarded idea. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 9, 2003 They lost the war, much as you have lost this argument, in the worst and most humilitating way possible. Please discontinue your pursuit of this absolutely retarded idea. Sorry Kotz. My idea is neither retarded or wrong. And I find it hard to be "humiliated" on a message board. They didn't officially win WWI. Any history book will tell you that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kingpk Report post Posted March 9, 2003 They lost the war, much as you have lost this argument, in the worst and most humilitating way possible. Please discontinue your pursuit of this absolutely retarded idea. Sorry Kotz. My idea is neither retarded or wrong. And I find it hard to be "humiliated" on a message board. They didn't officially win WWI. Any history book will tell you that. Ok, give me a link that says it explicitly that the US didn't win WWI. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kotzenjunge Report post Posted March 9, 2003 That's it, I demand a source. I want to know who the hell is actually spewing this bullshit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 9, 2003 Ok, give me a link that says it explicitly that the US didn't win WWI. Why? So you just call it wrong and create an excuse to deny it? I got this info from a history book, but if you want a link I'll get you one (for all the good it'll do). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 9, 2003 That's it, I demand a source. I want to know who the hell is actually spewing this bullshit. History books. Provided by a high school (the best in my state, in fact). And it's hardly bullshit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kotzenjunge Report post Posted March 9, 2003 Your new name is RobJohnstone II: Electric Boogaloo. You're blatantly incorrect, and you're still insisting that you're right. Next, you'll say that we'll never agree, so we should just drop it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 9, 2003 You're blatantly incorrect, and you're still insisting that you're right. Next, you'll say that we'll never agree, so we should just drop it. WTF? I told you the history books said this. I didn't get it online. I suppose I could always Google something up, but what would that accomplish? And I won't be dropping this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 9, 2003 If you're not going to give a source (you know something we can look at) then what's the point of continuing the argument? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 9, 2003 If you're not going to give a source (you know something we can look at) then what's the point of continuing the argument? I didn't learn this online. But I will present an online source if you want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 9, 2003 That'd be nice Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 9, 2003 Sorry- I double posted Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted March 9, 2003 1918 Great offensive by Germans (March–June). Americans' first important battle role at Château-Thierry—as they and French stop German advance (June). Second Battle of the Marne (July–Aug.)—start of Allied offensive at Amiens, St. Mihiel, etc. Battles of the Argonne and Ypres panic German leadership (Sept.–Oct.). British offensive in Palestine (Sept.). Germans ask for armistice (Oct. 4). British armistice with Turkey (Oct.). German Kaiser abdicates (Nov.). Hostilities cease on Western Front (Nov. 11). Source: Info Please Conclusion: Germany asked for an armistice and received it. They were, however, screwed over by many of the demands. This led to hostilities between Germany and the opposing countries. They were treated as losers of a war. In a sense, maybe they were. Maybe the armistice was simply a way to save face. Who knows for sure? So, did we officially win the war? Not really. Did we unofficially win the war? Probably. It's kind of a relative issue. But it is clear that the allies were A LOT better off. Perhaps the armistice was just to save face. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Midnight Express83 Report post Posted March 9, 2003 end result, a loss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Hamburglar Report post Posted March 10, 2003 Look dude, Germany lost. Their entire political structure fell apart and the Kaiser abdicated. They couldn't restart the war because they would have had their land occupied. And what's with all this "the US won WW1" stuff? I'm all for the Yanks saving Europe idea as regards WW2, simply on economic grounds alone. But the US really did join WW1 late in the game, and it wasn't going to go on that much longer anyway. Besides, believe me, you don't want credit for anything out of World War 1. Even Vietnam couldn't trump WW1 for the title of nastiest, most pointlessly destructive war ever. No-one comes out with any real credit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Midnight Express83 Report post Posted March 10, 2003 Any war that has a battle where 1 million people die in 4 weeks wins the title of most senseless killing ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest teke184 Report post Posted March 10, 2003 Germany didn't lose the war? Germany signed an armistice and, later, the Treaty of Versaiiles, which indemnified them for the whole war. They may not have been militarily conquered, but they got out of total destruction by waving the white flag and surrendering. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
