The Clique = $$$$$

[Guest teke184]

According to Meltzer, the buyrates for Survivor Series, Armageddon, and Royal Rumble have been released.

 

Survivor Series did 445,000 buys (0.86 buyrate), which I'm guessing was based on the Elimination Chamber gimmick, since the average show was drawing .6-.7 for the past few months.

 

Armageddon drew 260,000 buys (0.5 buyrate, the lowest in 5 years) for Trips-HBK in the main and Angle-Show in the semi-main.

 

Royal Rumble drew 495,000 buys (0.95), which is higher than anything since about Wrestlemania or Backlash of last year... except that the Rumble is usually the second best draw of the year and was a 1.60 last year with Jericho-Rock and the HHH-Austin based Rumble match on top.

[Guest bob_barron]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHHAAHA

 

I bet RVD laughed when he saw that buyrate.

 

A .95 isn't too bad for the Rumble though. I guess the Rumble and HHH v. Steiner were the big draws there.

[EL DANDY~! 0]

Yeah, cuz, you know, the crowd loved Steiner/HHH and hated Angle/Benoit because Benoit would never be a draw...ever...

[Guest The Superstar]

Armageddon drew 260,000 buys (0.5 buyrate, the lowest in 5 years) for Trips-HBK in the main and Angle-Show in the semi-main.

 

Duh! It's only because NO ONE wanted to see Kurt Angle vs. Big Show. Despite the ***** match HHH and Shawn were sure to deliver, people decided to wait for the video release.

 

 

This was also the Pay-per-view that RVD wasn't on. Coincidence?

[Guest bob_barron]

Yeah, cuz, you know, the crowd loved Steiner/HHH and hated Angle/Benoit because Benoit would never be a draw...ever...

That doesn't make any sense.

 

HHH v. Steiner was hyped much more then Angle v. Benoit ever was and was the big draw (Besides the rumble match)

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

This was also the Pay-per-view that RVD wasn't on. Coincidence?

I'd use my REALLY HUGE rolleyes.gif image here, but I don't think it's quite big enough.

[Guest The Superstar]

This was also the Pay-per-view that RVD wasn't on. Coincidence?

I'd use my REALLY HUGE rolleyes.gif image here, but I don't think it's quite big enough.

That was half sarcasm, because I *KNOW* that RVD isn't a draw anyway. If he even was on the show it would've been a throwaway RVD vs. Batista or something.

[Guest bob_barron]

What did Unforgiven and No Mercy do?

[Guest tpww7]

I would of bought the show if RVD was in the ME. So that's one more buy

[Guest Quik]

We need more Triple H on the PPV's!

[Guest snuffbox]

These buyrates are fairly meaningful, I think. Obviously proves that the current HHHgod main event situation isnt drawing flies to shit. Maybe wwe will realize before its too late that the main event has to be workers that the fans want to see, not workers that the bosses want the fans to see.

 

RVD, in his current role, his involvement wouldnt have spiked those buys any. But what if he IS a legit maineventer? The fans DO want to see him there, so obviously he should be pushed. If these current guys arent selling ppvs then its obviously time to try the new talent out.

 

Austin, Hogan, Flair etc sold because the audience wanted to watch them. Thats how you sell ppv, promote matches with the talent that people actually want to py their $$$ to see. Its very simple.

[Guest teke184]

Unforgiven and No Mercy weren't listed, but I'm guessing they pulled in about 0.6 each because that was the average for months before Survivor Series.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Heh--like this matters. HHH is Vince's common-law son-in-law (soon to be for real) and HBK is HHH's best friend. Nothing's going to change as long as the McMahons run things.

 

It's always nice to see figures that reflect that we're right, though.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

HBK after Summerslam was basically Hogan post-WM. The numbers simply didn't justify the hype or the delusions of self-worth.

 

Funny how the HBK marks are also really quiet about that, too. I was hoping to see how a 0.5 buyrate can be justified.

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Michaels never drew a dime anyway.

[Guest Austin3164life]

Michaels never drew a dime anyway.

This us true. In 1996, when Michaels was in the peak of his career, the ratings and buys were some of the lowest they've been in years up to that point. Not saying it's his fault, but it's because the fans weren't used to seeing agile, small wrestlers be the "Heavyweight" Champion.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Michaels never drew a dime anyway.

This us true. In 1996, when Michaels was in the peak of his career, the ratings and buys were some of the lowest they've been in years up to that point. Not saying it's his fault, but it's because the fans weren't used to seeing agile, small wrestlers be the "Heavyweight" Champion.

His refusal to turn heel, faking injuries so he could come back as (in theory) a bigger babyface, and almost never dropping titles in the ring are all things I'd blame more than that.

 

After all, Bret Hart was champ before him. He wasn't a Hogan as far as drawing, but he was always very over and was a decent draw I think.

 

Kliq members as main eventers wouldn't be so bad if they gave the people what they wanted and didn't try to pull funny stuff due to their influence.

 

And did anyone on the planet doubt what the end result would be at Armageddon in the title match?

[Guest Quik]

As much as I hate HHH, and to a similiar extent Shawn, the low buyrates aren't entirely their fault.

 

To be specific, it's a simple case of staleness. There's nothing new and innovative going on today, much as it was in '96 when every wrestler had a part time job.

 

Is the clique (specifically Hunter) being in every main event driving down buyrights? Yeah.

 

But it's the writers fault for putting them there in the first place.

[Guest Shanghai Kid]

Bret didn't draw either, but nor him nor Shawn were as bad as Diesel was during his run as champ. He almost tanked the whole company.

 

 

Truth is, it was probably hard for any champ to draw in that era. Interest in wrestling was just down as a whole, and everybody was waiting for the next Hogan. It wasn't Shawn, it wasn't Bret, and it damn sure wasn't Diesel, it was Austin.

 

 

You could just consider the Bret/Shawn era as a transistional time until Vince could find the next big draw.

[Guest teke184]

The difference between then and now is that we know HBK, Hogan, Triple H, and a few others aren't huge draws but some people aren't getting a legitimate chance to prove they are.

 

Example- RVD has only gotten about 4 ME spots in his entire WWE tenure.

 

Of those, he was in No Mercy 2001 as the designated jobbed in the Austin-Angle feud and that didn't draw very well... although that was during the DirecTV dispute that lowered buyrates across the baord. He was in the 10-man ME of Survivor Series 2001, which did well but not as good as management wanted. He was in Unforgiven 2002 against Trips where he was forced to wrestle against his style and, inexplicably, got beaten because Ric Flair turned on him (the buyrate on this is unknown but believed to be about average for that time, 0.6 to 0.7). He was also in the Elimination Chamber match at Survivor Series 2002 which did well, although he was eliminated early and hurt Trips because he attempted a frog splash but hit the top of the cage (They never got a chance to work out in the Chamber beforehand, so they were improvising spots. This one didn't turn out too well.)

 

While RVD may not be the next Austin, I'll bet he's a damn sight better draw than Trips, HBK, Hogan, or Vince McMahon himself.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

As much as I hate HHH, and to a similiar extent Shawn, the low buyrates aren't entirely their fault.

 

To be specific, it's a simple case of staleness. There's nothing new and innovative going on today, much as it was in '96 when every wrestler had a part time job.

 

Is the clique (specifically Hunter) being in every main event driving down buyrights? Yeah.

 

But it's the writers fault for putting them there in the first place.

Oh, but you see, I don't know for how long it has been going on, but I've been around boards like these since about a year before the RAW where Shawn came back, and it seemed a week could not go by before I came across a post (or a series of them) saying how Shawn coming back would improve things so much, how his mere presence would turn everything around. This isn't hyperbole, this is what people really said.

 

It went beyond that RAW, in fact, it went up until Shawn got the Big Gold (Useless) Belt at Survivor Series. There you had people talking about how Shawn made the consummate face champ and again, how it was so wonderful for WWE, for business, for the world. That pretty much ended soon after his title win, when nothing *actually* changed. If I could pinpoint a time, it was when HHH's run-in stopped the (dissapointing) HBK/RVD match.

 

Maybe this should serve as a prime example of how parading about these past stars is like chasing shadows.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

But what if he IS a legit maineventer? The fans DO want to see him there

No, dude. RVD's pops have dwindled and I think his routine will become stale as old bread in six months.

[Guest Blue Bacchus]

Sometimes it's hard to let go, wrestlers and fans alike.

 

Lord knows I wanted to see the nWo, Steiner, HBK (Missed him in 97, watched Nitro), Flair, and Perfect again. I still want to see Sting, Goldberg, Foley and Bret one last time.

 

A lot of you guys do too.

[Guest teke184]

But what if he IS a legit maineventer? The fans DO want to see him there

No, dude. RVD's pops have dwindled and I think his routine will become stale as old bread in six months.

Know why RVD's pops dwindled? That whole deal with Triple H running him into the ground during promos about how "you can't beat me" and pulling an illogical swerve by Flair to ensure he lost was the start of his downfall.

 

Hurting Trips in the Elimination Chamber, which was due to NO ONE being able to work out in the Chamber before the match and, thus, having to improvise spots, sealed his fate. He got a mini-push and then unceremoniously lost to HBK, who was in his only defense before losing the belt to Trips and was never seen as a legit champion.

 

 

Since then, he's been stuck in the tag division and jobbed to guys like Batista and Three Minute Warning. As has been proven in the past, very over people who lose to heatless individuals don't create two semi-over individuals... they create two near-heatless individuals.

 

 

If RVD was allowed to go out, be himself in the ring, and NOT be forced to work a style chosen just to expose him (like the "NWA style" match with Trips at Unforgiven), he'll be perfectly fine. If you wonder why I'm so pissed off about that style, ask youself the last time Trips had a match that was worth a shit period, let alone working that style.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Sometimes it's hard to let go, wrestlers and fans alike.

 

Lord knows I wanted to see the nWo, Steiner, HBK (Missed him in 97, watched Nitro), Flair, and Perfect again. I still want to see Sting, Goldberg, Foley and Bret one last time.

 

A lot of you guys do too.

nWo? No.

 

Steiner? No.

 

HBK? No.

 

Flair? Yes.

 

Perfect? Yes.

 

Sting? Not really.

 

Goldberg? No.

 

Foley? Yes, but not as a wrestler, and either way it won't happen.

 

Bret? Not in his current state, no.

 

Maybe others would disagree with me.

[Guest Mulatto Heat]

Sometimes it's hard to let go, wrestlers and fans alike.

Letting go is one thing, and to that I simply say that at some point we all need to "grow up", but making up bullshit statements to support your fanboyism is another thing, and it annoys me, and a LOT of that went on when it came to HBK and what his return would ACTUALLY mean.

[Guest HollywoodSpikeJenkins]

Jericho main events RR = Buyrate: 1.6

 

HHH main events RR = Buyrate: .95

 

 

Makes you think.

[Guest IB2BLACK]

Jericho was going against The Rock, he wasn't out there by himself. Also, that Rumble had a returning HHH, Austin, Angle, Taker, and a returning Mr. perfect & Goldust in it.

[Guest FeArHaVoC]

Despite the ***** match HHH and Shawn were sure to deliver, people decided to wait for the video release.

Just goes to show there is no such thing as a "Sure Bet."

[Guest jester]

Sometimes it's hard to let go, wrestlers and fans alike.

 

Lord knows I wanted to see the nWo, Steiner, HBK (Missed him in 97, watched Nitro), Flair, and Perfect again. I still want to see Sting, Goldberg, Foley and Bret one last time.

 

A lot of you guys do too.

nWo? No.

 

Steiner? No.

 

HBK? No.

 

Flair? Yes.

 

Perfect? Yes.

 

Sting? Not really.

 

Goldberg? No.

 

Foley? Yes, but not as a wrestler, and either way it won't happen.

 

Bret? Not in his current state, no.

 

Maybe others would disagree with me.

It's not that they keep bringing in these old stables and wrestlers. It's that they instantly put them into the main event spotlight and give them a belt.

 

They thrust Steiner right into the spotlight on Raw. And it turned out he sucked. If he'd started out with a lower profile, maybe his impact would have been merely forgettable instead of disastrous.