Latest on Brock / Angle Wrestlemania plans

[Guest Brian]

Considering how poorly and on what little reasoning they based his face turn, it can't get booked any worse.

[Guest art_vandelay]

We all complain about loopholes in storylines, yet in our fantasy booking, we don't mind making them since "it can't be any worse than it already is." That's a lazy excuse.

[Guest Brian]

Because there's really no background as to why Heyman turned, you are allowed to explain most of it. Heyman is out of option. He's seen physically just how strong Brock is. He knows he can no longer defeat him. He's run out of otions.

 

Angle has a neck injury, that he won't let out. He won't stop, he's viewed Lesnar as the perfect opponent to him. The one peak that he can achieve, the exclamation on his career. He's heel bent on making it there.

 

Heyman sees that as a liability. He sees Team Angle as useless; they failed to protect Angle. He sees Brock, young and not so smart, and sees himself in a situation that with enough twisted reasoning, he can manipulate.

 

He makes a plea to Brock. Tells him to look at his career since he left. Physically, nothings change. But he no longer has that mental edge he had with Heyman around, who could handle the dirty work for him. Heyman even convinces him that he was testing him. He could even push a paranoid edge to him.

[Guest TheArchiteck]

I'll rather see Steph, Heyman and Angle have a huge argument with either guy striking down Steph. So she can strip the title from Angle and suspend him indefinately.

The have Angle attack Brock on the way out as a last statement..

*shrugs*

[Guest Brian]

I'd rather have Angle laid out, and just forget about the whole thing so he doesn't look like a chickenshit heel. Just wait until next year, and try again with both guys in the right rolls.

[Guest art_vandelay]

That's a good idea, and I'd buy it. However, you're really making Brock look like a fool for buying into Heyman again after he's personally experience and seen time after time what happens to those who follow in his lead.

 

Also, what does it do for his Mania main event? If he faces a babyface Benoit as a heel with Heyman in his corner, Benoit would have no heat. If he faces Undertaker, who just came off of a storyline with Nathan Jones, Albert, and Big Show, he'd probably have even less heat. And the blowoff to this feud already occured at No Mercy, there's no more value to it. It's certainly not worthy of a Mania main event.

 

Turning Brock heel is not the way to go. There are definitely better options.

 

By turning Benoit heel instead, it gives time for Heyman and Team Angle to retreat and disappear from the spotlight. It creates a new heel that's even more threatening than Heyman. Plus, it uses the injuries of both Angle and Edge to fuel a WrestleMania main event, which is what I'm primarily thinking about.

[Guest Brian]

There's a ton of options. Heyman's tied in with Show and Albert, and Undertaker's got the seniority and the backstory with Hell Brock so put him immediately into the heel slot. You work that feud into Mania, and it gives Benoit the option of continuing in the tag division with Rhyno. You put them in a tag title match with Los Guerreros, who recapture their tag titles but have Rhyno turn on Benoit. Use Rhyno as a catalyst for the Angle and Edge injuries, and work that feud while Brock can feud with Cena and Taker.

[Guest teke184]

Since the 7-year Statute Of Limitations On Angle Theft (TM Jim Cornette) has expired on it, they should re-use the booking of the Ultimate Warrior vs. Randy Savage WWF title match from Summerslam 92.

 

In that match, both champion Savage and challenger Warrior were faces and the duo of Ric Flair and Mr. Perfect played them off each other by claiming that one side had hired them yet screwing around with both guys.

 

While the original intent was for Warrior to go heel and win the belt according to some sources, the final solution to this was for Flair to win the belt from Savage shortly thereafter.

 

In this case, we'll probably have Heyman and Team Angle playing Benoit and Brock off each other and then, within the next month, a heel will emerge that Heyman and Team Angle will support. This could be Rhyno or Cena or ANYONE. The big deal about this is that it buys them time to make a new heel as well as avoiding the tired "battle for respect" face vs. face angle.

[Guest RedJed]

Hmmmm well I know this much, I never thought Lesnar was a great babyface in the first place, so this could work. The nice chase they had going for Benoit getting the title would still be intact here too as well. It's probably actually smarter to keep Benoit as a face for awhile since his runs as a heel were......umm less than interesting. And he definately seems to have the fans on his side bigtime now FINALLY. Plus I could handle that fact that Angle and Lesnar dont work a match on SD, leaving that door open when Angle returns (even have Lesnar injure Angle himself and also say he injured Edge to do the heel turn).

 

The only real problem I have with that scenario by the way is giving Benoit the title in a match on Smackdown THAT NIGHT. Why blow off the first match with the two that same night, it wouldn't be and shouldnt be hard to just save it for a few weeks at Mania. If they want to give Benoit the title as well, the big win should be saved for Mania where it means something.

[Guest art_vandelay]

There's a ton of options. Heyman's tied in with Show and Albert, and Undertaker's got the seniority and the backstory with Hell Brock so put him immediately into the heel slot. You work that feud into Mania, and it gives Benoit the option of continuing in the tag division with Rhyno. You put them in a tag title match with Los Guerreros, who recapture their tag titles but have Rhyno turn on Benoit. Use Rhyno as a catalyst for the Angle and Edge injuries, and work that feud while Brock can feud with Cena and Taker.

 

Again, if your purpose is to develop new stars in place of Edge and Angle, that is not the route. Keeping Benoit and Rhyno in the tag division and mid cards while Albert, Big Show, Undertaker, and John Cena (who should not turn face) are wrestling against the champion will make for boring television and a lot more bitching around these parts. The championship feuds are the most important ones in the company. I don't think these opponents will fill that role. Not to mention the fact that all 4 of those men have already faced Brock.

 

Rhyno and Benoit, if built properly, will make for more attractive feuds and better matches.

[Guest art_vandelay]

Hmmmm well I know this much, I never thought Lesnar was a great babyface in the first place, so this could work. The nice chase they had going for Benoit getting the title would still be intact here too as well. It's probably actually smarter to keep Benoit as a face for awhile since his runs as a heel were......umm less than interesting. And he definately seems to have the fans on his side bigtime now FINALLY. Plus I could handle that fact that Angle and Lesnar dont work a match on SD, leaving that door open when Angle returns (even have Lesnar injure Angle himself and also say he injured Edge to do the heel turn).

Good points, but if you go into Mania with Benoit vs. Brock, you better be prepared for Benoit to get no reaction throughout the match. I'm sure he'll get the respect thing from the fans after the match. However, Benoit won't be seen as a threat at all going into Mania. Giving Brock even more heat by feeding him Edge would only add to this.

[Guest saturnmark4life]

I just don't want taker anywhere near brock, he's jobbed to him clean one one of his few good matches of the past few years and that's all the purpose he serves relating to Lesnar. Now using taker to put over rhyno, that's an idea.

[Guest RedJed]

Hmmmm well I know this much, I never thought Lesnar was a great babyface in the first place, so this could work. The nice chase they had going for Benoit getting the title would still be intact here too as well. It's probably actually smarter to keep Benoit as a face for awhile since his runs as a heel were......umm less than interesting. And he definately seems to have the fans on his side bigtime now FINALLY. Plus I could handle that fact that Angle and Lesnar dont work a match on SD, leaving that door open when Angle returns (even have Lesnar injure Angle himself and also say he injured Edge to do the heel turn).

Good points, but if you go into Mania with Benoit vs. Brock, you better be prepared for Benoit to get no reaction throughout the match. I'm sure he'll get the respect thing from the fans after the match. However, Benoit won't be seen as a threat at all going into Mania. Giving Brock even more heat by feeding him Edge would only add to this.

How do you figure he will be not taken as a threat? The announcers continuously have played him up as, the last match he had with Angle saw him come closer than ever to defeating him, and he's ran over Team Angle since then very convincingly (even more than Lesnar). Plus have you heard his face heat as of late? Its stronger than its ever been. Plus if you don't give him the belt already on Smackdown, you still have that belt chase story intact (you know from the promos in the dark about the family, etc) that makes as good of a title chase for Benoit as Lesnars chase has been, if not better, IMO.

[Guest Brian]

There's a ton of options. Heyman's tied in with Show and Albert, and Undertaker's got the seniority and the backstory with Hell Brock so put him immediately into the heel slot. You work that feud into Mania, and it gives Benoit the option of continuing in the tag division with Rhyno. You put them in a tag title match with Los Guerreros, who recapture their tag titles but have Rhyno turn on Benoit. Use Rhyno as a catalyst for the Angle and Edge injuries, and work that feud while Brock can feud with Cena and Taker.

 

Again, if your purpose is to develop new stars in place of Edge and Angle, that is not the route. Keeping Benoit and Rhyno in the tag division and mid cards while Albert, Big Show, Undertaker, and John Cena (who should not turn face) are wrestling against the champion will make for boring television and a lot more bitching around these parts. The championship feuds are the most important ones in the company. I don't think these opponents will fill that role. Not to mention the fact that all 4 of those men have already faced Brock.

 

Rhyno and Benoit, if built properly, will make for more attractive feuds and better matches.

How is it keeping Benoit and rhyno in the tag team division? More or less, for the next three weeks they work as a tag team and after that it's Rhyno protecting Heyman and Brock while Benoit works an uphill battle to get to the title, while Undertaker tries to avenge over his loss and Cena tries top get back at Brock. Considering Cena's mic work is getting to a top notch level, it should make for a good feud and help to elevate him. It's going to help to create more people in the long run then keeping Brock as face just because of how they've booked him.

[Guest art_vandelay]

Hmmmm well I know this much, I never thought Lesnar was a great babyface in the first place, so this could work. The nice chase they had going for Benoit getting the title would still be intact here too as well. It's probably actually smarter to keep Benoit as a face for awhile since his runs as a heel were......umm less than interesting. And he definately seems to have the fans on his side bigtime now FINALLY. Plus I could handle that fact that Angle and Lesnar dont work a match on SD, leaving that door open when Angle returns (even have Lesnar injure Angle himself and also say he injured Edge to do the heel turn).

Good points, but if you go into Mania with Benoit vs. Brock, you better be prepared for Benoit to get no reaction throughout the match. I'm sure he'll get the respect thing from the fans after the match. However, Benoit won't be seen as a threat at all going into Mania. Giving Brock even more heat by feeding him Edge would only add to this.

How do you figure he will be not taken as a threat? The announcers continuously have played him up as, the last match he had with Angle saw him come closer than ever to defeating him, and he's ran over Team Angle since then very convincingly (even more than Lesnar). Plus have you heard his face heat as of late? Its stronger than its ever been. Plus if you don't give him the belt already on Smackdown, you still have that belt chase story intact (you know from the promos in the dark about the family, etc) that makes as good of a title chase for Benoit as Lesnars chase has been, if not better, IMO.

If you turn him heel and feed him both Angle and Edge, the chase is still intact. As long as you don't give either guy the belt before WM, both chases are still intact.

 

Why do I figure he won't get any heat? Look at Benoit's current reactions and then look at Lesnar's. Lesnar's character is far more developed and on a different level than Benoit's. Once he has Benoit up for that F5, he'd get cheered regardless. Despite who he injures, fans will still want to see him win the title. So in order to solve that, you give him the title at the Smackdown before he turns heel, right? Well then there goes your title chase.

[Guest Trivia247]

So there goes the Benoit Rhyno Tag team Champ Theory.

 

The Benoit would turn heel and gain Heyman as his Manager too further the Hatred between Heyman and Brock.

[Guest RedJed]

So there goes the Benoit Rhyno Tag team Champ Theory.

 

The Benoit would turn heel and gain Heyman as his Manager too further the Hatred between Heyman and Brock.

They should just end the shit with Heyman and Lesnar feuding, its been played out as far as it pretty much can, hasn't it?

[Guest Brian]

Brock's character is hardly more developed than Benoit's. Benoit's shown the fight, the dteermination, and that he has a goal of being a champion at some point. All Brock's done is grunt, throw people around and chase Heyman. As much as I like Brock, as a face he has all of one gear.

[Guest Your Olympic Hero]

Do some thing where there will be a match at Wrestlemania for the vacant title between Brock and someone else. Have this someone else be chosen by Kurt Angle, seeing as he can't compete. Heyman is confident all night that Kurt will pick A-Train or Big Show or someone from Team Angle. Undertaker and Nathan Jones trust that Kurt will do the right thing and grant one of them the shot. Everyone wants the shot. Then, in a surprising pick, Kurt decides that Chris Benoit deserves the shot out of respect for Benoit and all his hard work. Face vs. face match. Brock will obviously have to win, but make sure Benoit gets a ton of near falls.

[Guest art_vandelay]

There's a ton of options. Heyman's tied in with Show and Albert, and Undertaker's got the seniority and the backstory with Hell Brock so put him immediately into the heel slot. You work that feud into Mania, and it gives Benoit the option of continuing in the tag division with Rhyno. You put them in a tag title match with Los Guerreros, who recapture their tag titles but have Rhyno turn on Benoit. Use Rhyno as a catalyst for the Angle and Edge injuries, and work that feud while Brock can feud with Cena and Taker.

 

Again, if your purpose is to develop new stars in place of Edge and Angle, that is not the route. Keeping Benoit and Rhyno in the tag division and mid cards while Albert, Big Show, Undertaker, and John Cena (who should not turn face) are wrestling against the champion will make for boring television and a lot more bitching around these parts. The championship feuds are the most important ones in the company. I don't think these opponents will fill that role. Not to mention the fact that all 4 of those men have already faced Brock.

 

Rhyno and Benoit, if built properly, will make for more attractive feuds and better matches.

How is it keeping Benoit and rhyno in the tag team division? More or less, for the next three weeks they work as a tag team and after that it's Rhyno protecting Heyman and Brock while Benoit works an uphill battle to get to the title, while Undertaker tries to avenge over his loss and Cena tries top get back at Brock. Considering Cena's mic work is getting to a top notch level, it should make for a good feud and help to elevate him. It's going to help to create more people in the long run then keeping Brock as face just because of how they've booked him.

You've got Benoit/Rhyno feuding with Los Guerreros and Team Angle for the next 3 weeks while Undertaker chases Brock for the title!

 

You also need to address the fact that no one wants to see Brock vs. Taker 3, especially not for wrestlemania.

 

You're unneccessarily taking too much time to get Benoit to a top level when a shortcut is right in front of you. I realize that with more time, this will shape up to be a better feud, but along with more time, opportunities such as WrestleMania will disappear and any title shot Benoit later receives will not be as big of a deal.

 

Cena will be elevated regardless of any of this. His feud with Brock is after Mania. In fact, you'll also need to turn him face because Brock is a heel, which would complicate things even more and perhaps turn fans off of his gimmick.

[Guest Trivia247]

Brock's character is hardly more developed than Benoit's. Benoit's shown the fight, the dteermination, and that he has a goal of being a champion at some point. All Brock's done is grunt, throw people around and chase Heyman. As much as I like Brock, as a face he has all of one gear.

Well not everyone can be multi dimensional in their faceness

 

Brock is a Bull, a War horse...and thats fine, he can be the Face SQUASH Machine...Alla CRAPBERG that will probably go to Raw so he never has to associate with Brock so there wouldn't be any comparing and contrasting.

 

Kane was like that too, a One gear Heel or face who was just a Machine, then they gave him a soul, they gave him senstivity, then a Sense of Humor, and Homicide and Necrophilia...and isn't he really better off for it????

 

Rhetorical or a Actual question...you decide.

[Guest art_vandelay]

Brock's character is hardly more developed than Benoit's. Benoit's shown the fight, the dteermination, and that he has a goal of being a champion at some point. All Brock's done is grunt, throw people around and chase Heyman. As much as I like Brock, as a face he has all of one gear.

 

Who's received the bigger push? Who gets louder cheers? While the depth of each character can be argued, the level of overness cannot.

[Guest Brian]

But unless the plan is to put over Benoit at Mania, it's as much of a moot point.

 

Cena's going to end up as a face in the long term anyways. The natural progression when he makes a return and starts out-talking Brock on the mic will start a turn. It's really inevitable in his current state, as his mic work outclasses Brock on so many levels.

 

I don't mind the match and I think given the right set-up, which is that Taker's streak is on the line which makes it an even more valuable match for him, the fans will buy it. And if Brock has to cheat to beat him and take that piece of Taker's pride away, it will make him even more of a heel.

 

I was arguing whether Brock face persona was more developed than Benoit's, and it's also what makes him a better heel is that he has more depth. And also that once the chase ends for Brock, he doesn't have much as a face character to work with outside of the Heyman angle.

[Guest art_vandelay]

I don't think many people are too concerned about Taker's streak ending. It's certainly not as important as a man's first title win. You're putting up Taker's WM streak against Benoit's potential wrestlemania victory. It doesn't matter if he doesn't win, because the fact that he's made it this far (a main event for the title at WrestleMania) and he doesn't succeed, it'll only fuel his chase.

 

I'm also concerned about the amount of change required for your ideas in the short amount of time from now to Mania. Heyman has to ditch his stable, Brock has to turn heel and Brock has to join up with Heyman. The scenery is too drastic from what it was, and all this storyline progression will have to be rushed. I won't be surprised if the match itself doesn't get announced until the week of WM.

[Guest Trivia247]

It wouldn't make much sense to bring in Taker vs Brock even in a title situation and I believe Taker has enough Politicing left in him not to face someone like Brock which would more likely Threaten to end his streak than a A Train or a Big Show.

 

Brock vs Benoit. unless they develope another guy in the matter of weeks to fill the bill.

[Guest papacita]

Since the 7-year Statute Of Limitations On Angle Theft (TM Jim Cornette) has expired on it, they should re-use the booking of the Ultimate Warrior vs. Randy Savage WWF title match from Summerslam 92.

 

In that match, both champion Savage and challenger Warrior were faces and the duo of Ric Flair and Mr. Perfect played them off each other by claiming that one side had hired them yet screwing around with both guys.

 

While the original intent was for Warrior to go heel and win the belt according to some sources, the final solution to this was for Flair to win the belt from Savage shortly thereafter.

 

In this case, we'll probably have Heyman and Team Angle playing Benoit and Brock off each other and then, within the next month, a heel will emerge that Heyman and Team Angle will support. This could be Rhyno or Cena or ANYONE. The big deal about this is that it buys them time to make a new heel as well as avoiding the tired "battle for respect" face vs. face angle.

 

That's probably what I'd do if I was booking. Either that, or have Angle forfeit the title and have Heyman and Team Angle threaten to ruin the WM main event out of spite. Either way, a face/face encounter is the best way to go.

[Guest art_vandelay]

Brock has already beaten Taker. The outcome of their Mania match wouldn't be hard to guess. Also, nother win over Taker would do nothing for Brock.

 

If Brock faces Benoit, Brock will still win, but not without Benoit putting up a great fight. Benoit would receive a standing ovation from 50,000 people, even if he's a heel. Main eventing Mania and not winning will do wonders for Chris.

 

Now that I think of it, it would be hard for Benoit to continue as a heel after this. I still wouldn't make Brock a heel, however, for the reasons I mentioned above.

 

Maybe a face vs. face match is the way to go, although they REALLY have to work on Benoit to get him as much fan support as Lesnar has.

[Guest nikowwf]

A face/face encounter leaves (post mania) the main heels of Smackdown being Team Angle, Big Slow, A-Train, Matt Hardy.

 

Are we going to keep having face/face main events each month from now on? I dont think it works.

 

niko

[Guest RedJed]

A face/face encounter leaves (post mania) the main heels of Smackdown being Team Angle, Big Slow, A-Train, Matt Hardy.

 

Are we going to keep having face/face main events each month from now on? I dont think it works.

 

niko

If they went with the face v. face route with Benoit/Lesnar at Mania (which I would prefer over any idea BTW) you could just have them continue a feud past Mania with at the same time Rhyno and Benoit tension and Cena getting more involved with Lesnar. You have a Benoit/Lesnar rematch at Backlash then, where someone should probably turn there, and then work towards Cena/Lesnar and Rhyno/Benoit feuds into the /spring/summer.

[Guest art_vandelay]

A face/face encounter leaves (post mania) the main heels of Smackdown being Team Angle, Big Slow, A-Train, Matt Hardy.

 

Are we going to keep having face/face main events each month from now on? I dont think it works.

 

niko

Well, there's your problem with that idea. There are problems with any idea. This is also why I'd prefer a Benoit heel turn.

 

But if they do face vs. face for Mania, then at least they'd have more time later to develop a heel, instead of the 3 weeks they have right now. I'd even buy a Brock heel turn after his title chase concludes at Mania. I still wouldn't put him with Heyman, however.