Antiwar protesters trash 9/11 memorial

March 12, 2003

It's not always used as a message of hate, although it's a stupid gesture of protest, IMO.

Start with flag burning, then the slippery slope leads you to arrests when you speak negatively about the government. Soviet Russia all over again.

The flag doesn't represent the government. The flag represents the country, at least, IMO. When I see the flag, I don't think "George Bush"

March 12, 2003

When you give it precedent, it will keep rolling until you get there, though.

The reason why we don't pass that amendment is to not even give it an ounce of precedent.

March 12, 2003

AS has been said burnign the flag is legal. It is also a stupid way to protest anything. The purpose of a protest IMO is to gain support for your cause, which in this case is apparently anti-war. When you burn teh flag most people in this country are offended and and angry and won't really bother to find out why you burned it. Same goes for blocking traffica dn all the otehr stupid shit that protestors do.

Tyler, the flag is not representative of the president, it is representative of the country. The flag hasn't changed since '49 or '51 (whenever Hawaii was brought in) and the Presidet changed 2 years ago. If the flag was representative of the Pres, I wouldn't have saluted from Jan '93 to Jan. 2001.

To burn a flag is unpatriotic, you haev destroyed the symbol of your country. If Nomar burned a Red Sox cap I think that could be interpretted as anti-Red Sox.

March 12, 2003

Who it represents doesn't matter. It still represents a small erosion of our rights, and when precedent is given to that, who knows where it can stop.

We could go from flags to anti-USA placards, to anti-USA demonstrations, to anti-government blah blah... it's just better that we don't even begin to go down that road.

March 12, 2003

Some Guy, you need a spell check.

Burning the flag is an expression and to each their own. In these people's opinion, the flag embodies the system and representatives of the government that are employed by the country, and their actions. It's not un-American, because they are expressing a right given to them by this country. Yes, I disagree with the means, but part of being American is speaking out.

March 12, 2003

My spelling is bad, I know.

I never said that falg burning should be illegal, I just said that it was unpatriotic. I think it shodl be legal, but it's legality doesn't mean that I have to like or respect it.

March 12, 2003

I understand that, and I agree. But at the same time these people are given a right by this country, and that's how they choose to express themselves. It's patriotic in the fact that they have a freedom and are expressing an opinion through it, and questionning the government.

Weird thing is that the Patriot Act, if enforced, could throw these guys in jail for doing that. That thing puts some serious restriction on the fourth and fitfh amendments, almost totally eliminating them.

March 12, 2003

Well flag burnign is a free speech, 1st Ammendment issue so the Patriot Act makes no difference there.

It's patriotic in the fact that they have a freedom and are expressing an opinion through it, and questionning the government.

But, burning the symbol of you own country seems to override that IMO. Burning the flag is not patriotic in any sense, using the rights afforded you by a country against it is un-patriotic.

March 13, 2003

It's patriotic in the fact that they have a freedom and are expressing an opinion through it, and questionning the government.

But, burning the symbol of you own country seems to override that IMO. Burning the flag is not patriotic in any sense, using the rights afforded you by a country against it is un-patriotic.

But that's the point - it's just a symbol of the country. Nobody is dying, nobody's setting fire to any federal buildings, you're not using any rights against the country, you're using it against a symbol. A symbol that isn't even universally accepted as proper representation of the coutnry. I could care less about the flag, I don't think it represents anything except how many states we have and how many we once had. And a map in the back of the history book could tell me that.

March 13, 2003

It's patriotic in the fact that they have a freedom and are expressing an opinion through it, and questionning the government.

But, burning the symbol of you own country seems to override that IMO. Burning the flag is not patriotic in any sense, using the rights afforded you by a country against it is un-patriotic.

But that's the point - it's just a symbol of the country. Nobody is dying, nobody's setting fire to any federal buildings, you're not using any rights against the country, you're using it against a symbol. A symbol that isn't even universally accepted as proper representation of the coutnry. I could care less about the flag, I don't think it represents anything except how many states we have and how many we once had. And a map in the back of the history book could tell me that.

Flow, you are in a very small minority with your belief about the flag.

You are using rights against this country. Burning the flag is burnig the domestically and internationally accepted symbol of America. When you show a Brit the AMerican flag he doesn't think "George Bush" he thinks "America".

Nothing is universally accepted. There are still people who don;t think that the Holocaust happened.

March 13, 2003

Alaska and Hawaii became states in 1959.

There's no need to make flag burning illegal. The people doing it aren't helping their cause, and are looked down upon by most people.

March 13, 2003

An update on this story.

Some pseudo-hippie skank got arrested! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -- Bitch, I hope you rot in hell. (She has her freedom of expression, and so do I...)

LA HABRA -- A 19-year-old Orange County woman is free today after La Habra police arrested her for allegedly assaulting a woman who maintains a patriotic display on a fence here.

Jennifer Quintana was booked on suspicion of misdemeanor assault Tuesday after police responded to a call that she had pushed and poked two women at the scene of a memorial display for Sept. 11, 2001, victims at Whittier Boulevard and Macy Street, according to La Habra Police spokesman Cindy Knapp.

Knapp issued the statement at a press conference Wednesday.

Parts of the incident at the memorial fence which was vandalized during the weekend were filmed by television news camera operators and shown on the late news Tuesday night.

News reports Tuesday of unknown vandals on Saturday burning and ripping American flags, destroying flowers and putting up antiwar signs to replace patriotic messages on the fence were picked up and disseminated by the Drudge Report on the Internet, triggering a massive, national e-mail reaction as well as a media frenzy.

Knapp reported that when Quintana came on the scene Tuesday evening she pushed one woman out of the way, then grabbed and poked Tracey Chandler, the Whittier mother of four who has maintained the memorial following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Knapp said Quintana was cited and released Wednesday morning and her court appearance was pending.

A police press release reported that witnesses said Quintana walked through the crowd making comments about her involvement in the vandalism including flag burning over the weekend. However, Knapp said that information at the time of the press conference was insufficient to arrest her for the vandalism.

The information from Tuesday night's incident will be added to the ongoing police investigation, said Knapp.

Press statements issued by Knapp Wednesday also reviewed how the incident began Saturday when police witnessed three individuals rearranging signs on the fence. The police came back a second time on Saturday. Sunday afternoon, police were dispatched back to the fence to take a crime report. This time, they said there was substantial damage, which they believe was done early Sunday morning.

"We are hoping to tie together all events and have it to the district attorney by the end of the week,' said Knapp.

Chandler said she was more shocked by Quintana's actions at the fence than by the original destruction of the memorial.

"She walked through the crowd saying 'They can't arrest me, they won't do (expletive) to me,' said Chandler. "To do that, to walk through a crowd of angry people, well she must be one hamburger short of a Happy Meal.'

Police offered no further information about Quintana and efforts to reach her Wednesday were unsuccessful.

In another development Wednesday, Jeff Collison, owner of the property the fence is on, went to the La Habra Police Station with Chandler and David Bisset, a Whittier resident who has contributed to the memorial. Collison wanted to lodge a formal complaint against the vandals.

He said he was told by police that he couldn't file the complaint because he was not the victim.

Collison and Chandler said they will continue talking to media people who have requested interviews since the story on the damaged fence was published.

"I will talk to the people who have called me,' he said, "because I want to see the people who did this prosecuted.'

Knapp said information from Collison also would be incorporated into the ongoing investigation into the vandalism.

As the investigation continues, the fence is again taking shape, true to Chandler's promise to make it bigger and better than before.

"It's great. There are more flags than ever now,' said Dusty Rhodes of Whittier.

La Habra Mayor Juan Garcia declined to comment.

http://www.whittierdailynews.com/Stories/0...1239953,00.html

Here's a pic of that PRO-WAR EXTREMIST with that memorial. It's a bad pic, but I'm sure the banner says "To the people that set fire to our Flag! Shame on you."

March 13, 2003

I, personally, don't give a damn if someone burns a flag. As long as they aren't breaking any laws it's their choice. Realistically, it's just a piece of cloth. It has no real meaning. I may get flamed for this, but it should be said.

March 13, 2003

It may not have meaning to you. But for alot of people it's a symbol, a reminder of freedom, a reminder of home, a symbol of peace and power. It may be the ROTC cadet in me talking, but there's quite a bit of meaning in that simple piece of cloth. Makes me wonder how much you appreciate the free speech you hold so dear, Dreamer, if you can't respect the very symbol of what our country went through to achieve it.

March 13, 2003

Just let Dreamer, or JMA, or whatever he's going to call himself tomorrow, make his little points and ignore him, which is what I do 99% of the time. You'll thank me later...

March 13, 2003

I don't understand why everyone gets their panties in a wad when this issue is brought up. Gah.

Yes, the symbolism of the flag is staggering. Yes, it means quite a bit to some people. No, the people who burn the flag aren't insulting that, they're insulting tiny aspects of our country (i.e. the presidency, capitalism, globalism, etc)

Just let it go. It has no business being banned, but the people who do it are stupid and counterproductive to their causes.

March 13, 2003

"I don't understand why everyone gets their panties in a wad when this issue is brought up. Gah

Yes, the symbolism of the flag is staggering. Yes, it means quite a bit to some people."

You answered your own question...

March 13, 2003

"No, the people who burn the flag aren't insulting that, they're insulting tiny aspects of our country (i.e. the presidency, capitalism, globalism, etc)"

And anyone with a brain knows that.

March 14, 2003

How are the people who burn the flag not insulting the people, who think the flag is more than a piece of cloth.

March 14, 2003

Because they're not protesting people who see the flag as more.

They're protesting a certain aspect of the country (albeit stupidly).

March 14, 2003

An update on this story.

Some pseudo-hippie skank got arrested! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA -- Bitch, I hope you rot in hell. (She has her freedom of expression, and so do I...)

LA HABRA -- A 19-year-old Orange County woman is free today after La Habra police arrested her for allegedly assaulting a woman who maintains a patriotic display on a fence here.

Jennifer Quintana was booked on suspicion of misdemeanor assault Tuesday after police responded to a call that she had pushed and poked two women at the scene of a memorial display for Sept. 11, 2001, victims at Whittier Boulevard and Macy Street, according to La Habra Police spokesman Cindy Knapp.

Knapp issued the statement at a press conference Wednesday.

Parts of the incident at the memorial fence which was vandalized during the weekend were filmed by television news camera operators and shown on the late news Tuesday night.

News reports Tuesday of unknown vandals on Saturday burning and ripping American flags, destroying flowers and putting up antiwar signs to replace patriotic messages on the fence were picked up and disseminated by the Drudge Report on the Internet, triggering a massive, national e-mail reaction as well as a media frenzy.

Knapp reported that when Quintana came on the scene Tuesday evening she pushed one woman out of the way, then grabbed and poked Tracey Chandler, the Whittier mother of four who has maintained the memorial following the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Knapp said Quintana was cited and released Wednesday morning and her court appearance was pending.

A police press release reported that witnesses said Quintana walked through the crowd making comments about her involvement in the vandalism including flag burning over the weekend. However, Knapp said that information at the time of the press conference was insufficient to arrest her for the vandalism.

The information from Tuesday night's incident will be added to the ongoing police investigation, said Knapp.

Press statements issued by Knapp Wednesday also reviewed how the incident began Saturday when police witnessed three individuals rearranging signs on the fence. The police came back a second time on Saturday. Sunday afternoon, police were dispatched back to the fence to take a crime report. This time, they said there was substantial damage, which they believe was done early Sunday morning.

"We are hoping to tie together all events and have it to the district attorney by the end of the week,' said Knapp.

Chandler said she was more shocked by Quintana's actions at the fence than by the original destruction of the memorial.

"She walked through the crowd saying 'They can't arrest me, they won't do (expletive) to me,' said Chandler. "To do that, to walk through a crowd of angry people, well she must be one hamburger short of a Happy Meal.'

Police offered no further information about Quintana and efforts to reach her Wednesday were unsuccessful.

In another development Wednesday, Jeff Collison, owner of the property the fence is on, went to the La Habra Police Station with Chandler and David Bisset, a Whittier resident who has contributed to the memorial. Collison wanted to lodge a formal complaint against the vandals.

He said he was told by police that he couldn't file the complaint because he was not the victim.

Collison and Chandler said they will continue talking to media people who have requested interviews since the story on the damaged fence was published.

"I will talk to the people who have called me,' he said, "because I want to see the people who did this prosecuted.'

Knapp said information from Collison also would be incorporated into the ongoing investigation into the vandalism.

As the investigation continues, the fence is again taking shape, true to Chandler's promise to make it bigger and better than before.

"It's great. There are more flags than ever now,' said Dusty Rhodes of Whittier.

La Habra Mayor Juan Garcia declined to comment.

http://www.whittierdailynews.com/Stories/0...1239953,00.html

Here's a pic of that PRO-WAR EXTREMIST with that memorial. It's a bad pic, but I'm sure the banner says "To the people that set fire to our Flag! Shame on you."

Good. I hope the bitch fries. Afterall, she's just flesh, bones, and blood. I don't see why I can't beather brains in.

"It's great. There are more flags than ever now,' said Dusty Rhodes of Whittier.

AHHHHHHHHH

March 14, 2003

Just let Dreamer, or JMA, or whatever he's going to call himself tomorrow, make his little points and ignore him, which is what I do 99% of the time. You'll thank me later...

If you want to ignore me you aren't doing a very good job. Not that I would want your attention. Realistically, you ignoring me is a good thing for me. But I must INSIST you do a better job at it, Ku.

March 14, 2003

It may not have meaning to you. But for a lot of people it's a symbol, a reminder of freedom, a reminder of home, a symbol of peace and power. It may be the ROTC cadet in me talking, but there's quite a bit of meaning in that simple piece of cloth. Makes me wonder how much you appreciate the free speech you hold so dear, JMA, if you can't respect the very symbol of what our country went through to achieve it.

I appreciate free speech a lot. I also support freedom of expression: i.e. flag burning. I personally wouldn't do it (I don't burn stuff) but I'm not going to stop or even care if someone does it. I do, however, like to see nationalists wet their pants over it. I wouldn't burn a flag because I have no reason to. Why anyone would want to burn a cloth is beyond me. It's also kind of cliche.

Too seventies-ish. Anyways, carry on.

March 14, 2003

"If you want to ignore me you aren't doing a very good job. Not that I would want your attention. Realistically, you ignoring me is a good thing for me. But I must INSIST you do a better job at it, Ku."

Clarification: I glance at whatever The-World-Doesn't-Understand-Me gibberish you post about and move on. I don't go "ewww, it's Dreamer/JMA/etc and skip that post."

And it's kkk, not Ku...

March 14, 2003

"If you want to ignore me you aren't doing a very good job. Not that I would want your attention. Realistically, you ignoring me is a good thing for me. But I must INSIST you do a better job at it, Ku."

Clarification: I glance at whatever The-World-Doesn't-Understand-Me gibberish you post about and move on. I don't go "ewww, it's JMA" and skip that post.

And it's kkk, not Ku...

I believe you are misinformed. I don't post gibberish. I'm simply not a nationalist. That's all.

March 15, 2003

"If you want to ignore me you aren't doing a very good job. Not that I would want your attention. Realistically, you ignoring me is a good thing for me. But I must INSIST you do a better job at it, Ku."

Clarification: I glance at whatever The-World-Doesn't-Understand-Me gibberish you post about and move on. I don't go "ewww, it's JMA" and skip that post.

And it's kkk, not Ku...

I believe you are misinformed. I don't post gibberish. I'm simply not a nationalist. That's all.

Wait, JMA is Dreamer? Ah, that explains SO MUCH. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Like I said. Only in America.

You hate the country enough to burn the flag, and then use the countries basic rights to protect yourself.

There is just something ungodly funny about that.

It's not a matter of CAN a person burn the flag, but SHOULD they.

For everyone here going, "There's nothing really wrong with it, it's just protesting aspects of the country, not disrespecting it, it's not un-patriotic".....

There are enough people who feel ABSOLUTELY the opposite of your view point that flag-burning is still a hot issue. What does that tell you? That these opinions are largely subjective. YOU say it's okay, I say that if I saw someone burning the flag I'd be offended, because to me it's more than just a "piece of cloth". Neither of us are right except in our own respective ideological camps.

*****

Oh, and to whomever said that the fight against Iraq isn't part of the War on Terror.....you're dead wrong. Iraq funds several terrorist groups, most notably Hammas and the Islamic Jihad. This is irrefutable, as we have a great deal of evidence linking Iraq to these groups. Thus, Iraq DOES support terrorism.

It just so happens that these terrorist groups spend most of their time killing innocent Israeli citizens instead of endangering you in your safe American home, so who really gives a fuck, right?

No sirree, why go to war with Iraq? They don't post a terrorist threat to us. They only help religious / racist zealots kill a bunch of Jews.

But hey, it doesn't effect YOU, so everything's kosher.

March 15, 2003

Then let's invade North Korea, who threatens millions and millions of South Korean lives.

Of course, that might mean we get NUKED, but since we're the "good guys" in all this, why the hell not?

March 15, 2003

Personally, I feel more threatened by North Korea right now than anyone. Mostly though, I am more afraid of something getting smuggled into the country and detonated here, over, something like say, a nuclear missle launched from Iraq/Korea. I mean really, Sept-11th was pulled off with box knives, so why is everyone so convinced Saddam would launch a missle at us, which would be easily traced.

March 15, 2003

Then let's invade North Korea, who threatens millions and millions of South Korean lives.

Of course, that might mean we get NUKED, but since we're the "good guys" in all this, why the hell not?

I'll say to you what I've said to others - one thing at a time.

Don't think North Korea isn't on our short-list. They're likely next up on the chopping block, although I don't necessarily feel that we'll go to war with them....yet.

The thing that frustrates me is that is seems that most people think the War on Terror was this small, simple thing that was largely won when we deposed the Taliban and made several key assaults upon Al-Qaeda. Thus totally forgetting that the administration said all along in the beginning that the war would take YEARS to accomplish and would involve not only eliminating terrorist groups but the NATIONS who supported them.

March 15, 2003

No, I don't think the "War on Terror" was won by killing the Taliban.

It can't ever be won.

As long as there is human life on this planet, there will always be terrorists. Thinking anything else is simply naive and stupid.

By eliminating these governments who support terrorism, do you really think we're gonna stop terrorism? Do you really think they will take to us and it'll be a nice, happy world?

No. They're going to resent us and take stabs at our soldiers. They're gonna smuggle a fucking nuke into our country and blow up a city.

You think 9/11 was bad? Wait until we attack NK, as you suggest. South Korea will be annihilated, and I bet they fire a nuke at the west coast.

Antiwar protesters trash 9/11 memorial

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