Why America Scares The World

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Jobber, can you show me the source of where it says that they disobeyed the resolutions? Because all I see are all the resolutions against Israel, but nothing that says they disobeyed them. Not disputing you yet, but are they in the writing or no? Not doubting you, but just wondering.

The very fact that the occupation continues is proof positive of the violation of most of the resolutions I mentioned. Take a look at this map which shows settlements inside Palestinian territory (which are illegal under the terms of the Oslo accords.) And the resolutions I listed aren't *all* the resolutions against Israel; as far as I'm aware, there are a total of 68 resolutions Israel is in violation of (both in the UNSC and the General Assembly.)

 

I'd like to make the point that these resolutions all vary from various things (And generally occurred after wars where they had been invaded, fought off the invaders, and actually TOOK land from the invaders), while Iraq's 17 have been the same each time, and weren't provoked by hostile invasion. There are slight differences.

 

Israel remains in breach of these violations, and is guilty of human rights abuses. It's not a matter of speculation: the facts are there in black and white for all the world to see. I'm not saying Israel is a terrorist nation or questioning its legitimacy, merely pointing out that it is in constant violation of far more resolutions than Iraq and is just as much a threat to other nations (if not more of a threat, given that it has nuclear and chemical weapons and has announced it is willing to use them if attacked.)

[Guest Powerplay]

Well, again, I believe you on the settlements, but where does it say that they disobeyed them? I mean, is there a list of sorts?

[Guest Crazy Dan]

I think the US over the last fifty or so years has done some things to warrant a disliking.

 

All the numerous regime changes that our CIA has had hand in. From Iran, to Vietnam, to Central and South America. To us supporting Iraq, which in turn tried to basically wipe Iran off the map. Those are some valid reasons not to like America in the world's eyes.

 

Another reason might be our support of Isreal. I think one of the most bone-heade moves made in the 20th Century was the creation of Isreal in the Middle East. I mean, did anyone think that maybe, just maybe, putting a bunch of Jewish people in the Middle of the Arab world, might be a bad idea.

 

Sorry about the rant, to get back on topic, I think that much of the Arab world sees the US as mainly supporting Isreal. And when you have a group of people who aren't educated enough to trully understand that maybe their government is giving them the shaft. Then you have breeding of hate. It comes down to many Arabs seeing the US support a non Muslim state time and time again.

 

But, it is f'd up that the US gives so much aid to the world and at the same time those countries go ahead and give us the finger. I would love it if we pulled all our troops out of Saudi Arabia, which blatently supports terrorism more than Iraq. I would pay money to watch the Saudi people rip to shreds the royal family. And at the same time it might cool some of the terrorist groups who don't want us in the desert that the call the Holy-Land.

[Guest EricMM]

Israel remains in breach of these violations, and is guilty of human rights abuses. It's not a matter of speculation: the facts are there in black and white for all the world to see. I'm not saying Israel is a terrorist nation or questioning its legitimacy, merely pointing out that it is in constant violation of far more resolutions than Iraq and is just as much a threat to other nations (if not more of a threat, given that it has nuclear and chemical weapons and has announced it is willing to use them if attacked.)

 

1)Israel is certainly no threat to US, no they're our friends

 

2)Israel is the enemy of radical violent muslims in the area

2b) radical violent muslims are our enemies

 

3)If Israel pulled an Iraq say and turned against us, we could just cease our funding of them.

 

Everyone wants to see an end to the mideast conflict except the warmongers in the area. The problem is that many many many Palastinians are warmongers. You can say Sharon is, but not all Israeli leaders have been, and most Israelis are racist. I'm just saying that Israel is outnumbered by a whole rack of crazy people, who would LOVE to blow themselves up in order to kill a few Israelis.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Yeah, but they ARE in violation of said resolutions, and if we're arguing that we are the beacon of upholding UN resolutions, why not go in and "make sure they enforce them"?

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Well, again, I believe you on the settlements, but where does it say that they disobeyed them? I mean, is there a list of sorts?

You've been quite respectful to me here, so I'm going to be as nice as possible.

 

Israel remains in violation of the resolutions because it has not taken actions to fulfil its obligations under the resolutions. How much simpler could it be?

 

I'll explain it again with an illustrative example, because this is the second post I've made explaining this and I'd hate to have to do it again. If you ask a friend to move five paces to the left, and your friend refuses to do so, that's generally an indication of the fact that they... haven't moved five paces to the left. It's very. very. simple.

 

One final time, this time with a real-world example: the fact that the settlements continue to grow and new ones continue to be made are just one example of the continuing violations Israel is guilty of. It honestly couldn't get much simpler.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Jobber, can you show me the source of where it says that they disobeyed the resolutions? Because all I see are all the resolutions against Israel, but nothing that says they disobeyed them. Not disputing you yet, but are they in the writing or no? Not doubting you, but just wondering.

The very fact that the occupation continues is proof positive of the violation of most of the resolutions I mentioned. Take a look at this map which shows settlements inside Palestinian territory (which are illegal under the terms of the Oslo accords.) And the resolutions I listed aren't *all* the resolutions against Israel; as far as I'm aware, there are a total of 68 resolutions Israel is in violation of (both in the UNSC and the General Assembly.)

 

I'd like to make the point that these resolutions all vary from various things (And generally occurred after wars where they had been invaded, fought off the invaders, and actually TOOK land from the invaders), while Iraq's 17 have been the same each time, and weren't provoked by hostile invasion. There are slight differences.

 

Israel remains in breach of these violations, and is guilty of human rights abuses. It's not a matter of speculation: the facts are there in black and white for all the world to see. I'm not saying Israel is a terrorist nation or questioning its legitimacy, merely pointing out that it is in constant violation of far more resolutions than Iraq and is just as much a threat to other nations (if not more of a threat, given that it has nuclear and chemical weapons and has announced it is willing to use them if attacked.)

Why on God's Earth should Israel "honor" the Oslo Accords when the PLO NEVER did for one single moment? That would be idiotic and suicidal. All the Oslo Accords did was simply show how much Arafat had NO intention of ever actually negotiating for peace and how idiotic Israel was for EVER trusting the weasel.

 

But, as pointed out to you, Israel's "violations" are simply them taking land from people who ATTACKED them. There is a monumental moral difference between that and a guy who simply disobeys a paper he signed. If somebody attacks and LOSES --- they DESERVE to lose land. Screw the U.N if they don't like it.

 

And what human rights violations does Israel have? They are the ONLY country in that hellhole with ANY concern for human rights? And that they don't attack unless attacked first kind of disproves that they are more dangerous than anybody else in that hellhole.

-=Mike

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Now hold on a minute. This is our conversation so far:

 

JotW> What use is the UN if anyone can tell them to fuck off?

MikeSC> Well we MAKE THE UN TOUGHEN UP and enforce their lawmaking!

JotW> Well, here's a bunch of decisions that have been largely ignored.

MikeSC> Well... Well that's a special exception!

 

Pick a side and stick with it, fella. As much as you wish for a tough but fair (using that word quite liberally here) world body composed of everyone from Da Right-Wing "In" Krew, it's not going to work that way.

 

Either the U.N. just means jack shit and everyone tells them to piss off, or it serves as an equal body, where every country has to put aside it's pride and agenda to "bow" a bit to what the rest of the world has to say.l

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Now hold on a minute. This is our conversation so far:

 

JotW> What use is the UN if anyone can tell them to fuck off?

MikeSC> Well we MAKE THE UN TOUGHEN UP and enforce their lawmaking!

JotW> Well, here's a bunch of decisions that have been largely ignored.

MikeSC> Well... Well that's a special exception!

 

Pick a side and stick with it, fella. As much as you wish for a tough but fair (using that word quite liberally here) world body composed of everyone from Da Right-Wing "In" Krew, it's not going to work that way.

 

Either the U.N. just means jack shit and everyone tells them to piss off, or it serves as an equal body, where every country has to put aside it's pride and agenda to "bow" a bit to what the rest of the world has to say.l

The U.N is an anti-Semitic body. Plain and simple.

 

They have permitted themselves to become a total joke and I'm 100% for us simply pulling out of it altogether and telling them to leave our country.

 

If you can't see a WORLD of difference in a country taking land from people that ATTACK them and a man who maintains WMD when he was expressly forbidden from doing so, then there is a fundamental disconnect.

-=Mike

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

The U.N is an anti-Semetic body. Plain and simple.

 

Ah, I see.

 

This is utterly stupid. You're saying "WI MUZT INFORS REZOLUSHUNS" on one hand, and then saying Israel is above the law on the other.

 

Wonderful logic, Rush.

[Guest JMA]

The U.N is an anti-Semitic body. Plain and simple.

 

And you have proof of this?

 

They have permitted themselves to become a total joke and I'm 100% for us simply pulling out of it altogether and telling them to leave our country.

 

That would severly hurt international relations. What if there's another WW and we need help? We'll have pissed our relations away.

 

If you can't see a WORLD of difference in a country taking land from people that ATTACK them and a man who maintains WMD when he was expressly forbidden from doing so, then there is a fundamental disconnect.

 

Sigh. There is no proof CURRENTLY of Saddam having WMD.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

J-E-W-S

Oh boy, here we go.

 

Look, unless you can sit and bring up statements or evidence of this claim (and I sort of doubt you will), you're going to be stuck believing your own conspiracy theory and it will be impossible to debate with you.

 

At this point, we are leaving facts and proof more and more behind and entering the realm of opinion. That will make intelligent, logical debate very difficult.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

The U.N is an anti-Semetic body. Plain and simple.

 

Ah, I see.

 

This is utterly stupid. You're saying "WI MUZT INFORS REZOLUSHUNS" on one hand, and then saying Israel is above the law on the other.

 

Wonderful logic, Rush.

Ah, ad hominem attacks. Love it.

 

I would respond, but you're clearly not worth the effort.

-=Mike

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

No, you won't respond because you can't refute it.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

The U.N is an anti-Semitic body. Plain and simple.

 

And you have proof of this?

 

They have permitted themselves to become a total joke and I'm 100% for us simply pulling out of it altogether and telling them to leave our country.

 

That would severly hurt international relations. What if there's another WW and we need help? We'll have pissed our relations away.

 

If you can't see a WORLD of difference in a country taking land from people that ATTACK them and a man who maintains WMD when he was expressly forbidden from doing so, then there is a fundamental disconnect.

 

Sigh. There is no proof CURRENTLY of Saddam having WMD.

1) I take it you missed the UN Council on Racism a few years back where they just went off on "Zionism".

 

2) We have 30 countries on board right now without the U.N. If we need help, we can get it easier without the United Nations.

 

3) Nobody has attempted to argue that Saddam doesn't have them.

 

The only argument is how many.

-=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

J-E-W-S

Oh boy, here we go.

 

Look, unless you can sit and bring up statements or evidence of this claim (and I sort of doubt you will), you're going to be stuck believing your own conspiracy theory and it will be impossible to debate with you.

 

At this point, we are leaving facts and proof more and more behind and entering the realm of opinion. That will make intelligent, logical debate very difficult.

I won't even ask how you manage to quote something I didn't write, but that's neither here nor there.

 

Let's go back to the U.N Council on Racism when the members just unloaded on "Zionism" as the biggest problem in the world.

 

That didn't raise ANY red flags?

-=Mike --- who can't fathom why Jews tend to vote Democratic in the first place

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Please provide the minutes of this council, and the quote by the member who said it was the biggest problem in the world. Please also provide examples of every other UN country stating that they agree. Please also provide an example of Kofi Annan agreeing.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Yeah, I'm trying to figure out how this all fits into the Security Council.

 

EDITED to add: The reason I misquote you is I used to regular at another political board one person would jokingly go "J-E-W-S" (as though it was some sort of forbidden word) when someone came up with some quack conspiracy regarding Jewish people.

 

Example:

"Why doesn't the media cover all the violence in the Palestinian cities?"

"It's controlled by the J-E-W-S."

 

Of course, that turned into a catchphrase used by everyone, and then when someone joined in who actually BELIEVED in one of these conspiracies, it usually resulted in replies along the lines of "Oh boy, here come the J-E-W-S."

 

As an outsider, I can see where you can pick up that it looks rather racist, although it isn't really meant to insult anyone except the person expressing unusual views such as yourself. I guess old habits just die hard or something.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

[Why on God's Earth should Israel "honor" the Oslo Accords when the PLO NEVER did for one single moment? That would be idiotic and suicidal. All the Oslo Accords did was simply show how much Arafat had NO intention of ever actually negotiating for peace and how idiotic Israel was for EVER trusting the weasel.

The deal breaker for Oslo was Netanyahu, not Arafat.

 

But, as pointed out to you, Israel's "violations" are simply them taking land from people who ATTACKED them. There is a monumental moral difference between that and a guy who simply disobeys a paper he signed. If somebody attacks and LOSES --- they DESERVE to lose land. Screw the U.N if they don't like it.

 

What do Jordan and Egypt have to do with the West Bank and Gaza, again? They occupied them just like the Israelis occupied them. It's not like the Palestinians had any control over fucking King Hussein or Nasser.

 

And what human rights violations does Israel have? They are the ONLY country in that hellhole with ANY concern for human rights? And that they don't attack unless attacked first kind of disproves that they are more dangerous than anybody else in that hellhole.

                -=Mike

 

Minus those little affairs in 1956 and 1982, but you're right. They aren't any more dangerous than anyone else over there. And as for human rights violations, try "we're going to come in and rule you, but you'll never be allowed to have any say over that because you aren't Jewish."