Why America Scares The World

[Guest godthedog]

i think i'm destined to get no-sold in this folder.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

The well-off OWE the less fortunate nothing. They give regularly, but they are under NO obligation to do so.

Like I said, it's a moral obligation. It does, though, require a functioning moral compass. And I'll remember that when one of your loved ones is dying from an incurable disease and you're wishing there were more money for research...hey, not my problem.

 

And who the heck are YOU to decide what somebody SHOULD give? If the world hates us EVEN THOUGH we give tons of money and kept millions free from communism --- then screw them.

I'm a member of the human race, man, with compassion and everything. If you have the means, you should give SOMETHING to SOMEONE. Doesn't matter who or how much, but sitting on your ass doing absolutely nothing is unacceptable.

 

We did more good for the world than any country in history has ever done.

What, you want a pat on the back for being lucky enough to live in a country you can say that about?

1) Guess what?

 

I, personally, nearly died on Friday morning. I had a serious infection in a wisdom tooth and the infection cut off my windpipe, so I could barely breathe. If I was not in a hospital for this at the time, I would have died before I could have gotten to a hospital as I couldn't actually speak, either, to get any help at that point.

 

I have to end up paying for the enormous expense that the hospital stay, emergency surgery, and oceans of antibiotics cost. I don't have ANYWHERE near this much money, but it is MY problem. That is my obligation and I ask nobody for assistance. I am far from wealthy, but my problems are not anybody else's problems. If somebody wishes to help, great. Love to have it. But nobody owes me one damned red cent and it's the epitome of childishness to act as if the "rich" OWE me anything.

 

So take your snide comments and keep them to yourself, you moronic little prick.

 

 

2) We have DONE MORE THAN ANYBODY ELSE and they STILL hate us. Screw 'em. We lost untold thousands of lives protecting them. We bailed numerous countries out when their economies nearly collapsed. We HAVE done more than anybody else --- we have GIVEN more than ANYBODY has ever given (let's see how nice the European "safety net" would be today if we made them pay for their own security from the end of World War II until the Soviet Union's collapse).

 

At this point, we don't owe anybody anything and if our assistance only generates anger and resentment, then why in the heck SHOULD we assist?

 

 

3) We're the only country in history that it CAN be said about and I refuse to feel even a little bad about the U.S. We're the one country that could conquer the world if we chose to (as NR pointed out, we basically conquered Afghanistan in short order and primarily through the air; this is the same country the U.S.S.R couldn't handle for years) and we do not do so.

 

It's time for the U.S to get a little praise now.

-=Mike --- It's long past time for that, actually

[Guest TheMikeSC]

As the dominant country in the world, the US is expected, not asked, to do these things.

So, we try to help everybody and we're meddling in everybody's affairs and they hate us.

 

We try and leave people alone and they hate us for NOT helping.

 

Yup, gotta love these catch-22's.

-=Mike

judging from the article, i don't think lack of financial aid is the problem here. the animosity seems more to stem out from arrogance more than anything else. clinton administration arrogance was basically white man's burden: we're going to help you because you people can't help yourselves, etc. bush administration arrogance is more akin to, "we don't want anything to do with any of you, unless we want something from you, then we fully expect to get it from you even though we previously wanted nothing to do with you."

So you won't feel no-sold... :-)

 

People misread us. That's unfortunate.

 

But, again, what are we to do?

 

We give aid and ask for very little in return. It's not unfair of us, though, to expect others to deliver what little we ask.

 

The world says they don't want us meddling in their affairs --- so we don't. We leave them alone. But, if we leave them alone except when we "need them", we come across as arrogant --- so again, what is the US to do? Continually bug and meddle with the smaller countries?

 

It's a no-win situation.

-=Mike

[Guest godthedog]

i don't think bush's policies are being misread as arrogance at all. the gestures we made to turkey, for instance, seem to be rather arrogant in and of themselves. it's the whole attitude of withdrawing help to anyone else while at the same time expecting everyone to help us that's getting us in trouble.

[Guest Mad Dog]

On giving to the needy.

 

My family makes a good amount of money. We are constantly shaken down by the government for money. Hell I think we're still paying off last years taxes right now. We get completely punished for the amount of success we've had. So you know after the close to 30% of our income that we surrender to the government and bills why should we give the little that we're allowed to keep to anyone?

[Guest CanadianChris]

1) Sorry to hear it...but, this pertains to my argument about giving to the less fortunate being a social responsibility how? Less fortunate doesn't always mean people who are broke and need a handout...it means people who are incurably ill, children who are going hungry and without schooling, women who are being abused, etc., at home and in other countries. Being rich and not giving back to the less fortunate is just plain, unadulterated greed, which, last I checked, was one of the seven deadly sins.

 

And of course, if you lived here, someplace which takes the typically un-American attitude of free medical care for all who need it, you wouldn't be in the predicament you're in now. Something to think about.

 

2) It's not always about what is done, but instead HOW it is done. The article explained this very well.

 

3) That's one of the main problems. people who do good and then whine and complain about not getting credit aren't really good at all. Righteousness is its own reward.

 

And see how I got through that without resorting to childish insults?

[Guest CanadianChris]

On giving to the needy.

 

My family makes a good amount of money. We are constantly shaken down by the government for money. Hell I think we're still paying off last years taxes right now. We get completely punished for the amount of success we've had. So you know after the close to 30% of our income that we surrender to the government and bills why should we give the little that we're allowed to keep to anyone?

You shouldn't...that's my whole point. If you're not able to, who could possibly judge you? It's those who do have a great deal that they could give but don't whose attitudes are appalling.

[Guest Mad Dog]

And the other problem is that when you do give to a charity that they hound you so much that you just say fuck it and never give another penny.

 

I gave to a charity last summer and until I moved back home I could depend on a charity call to wake me up at least 2 or 3 times a week. On top of that I got loads of stuff in the mail. I won't be giving to charity for a long time after the 5 months of total annoyance they caused me.

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

What I don't understand is how the same people who say we owe the world nothing are the same people who keep the calling-in of favors attitude when it comes to matters that aren't humanitarian aid. CC said that this is a moral responsibility of ours, and if we're using what's right and just and all that powerful moral language to justify things we do, why can't we extend those moral sensibilites and obligations into other arenas?

 

Holding everyone else down is only going to cause our downfall one day. We think we're historically special, but we're the same as any dominant global power of the last few hundred years. To prevent this, we need to learn from the previous superpowers' mistakes.

[Guest The Hamburglar]

Very good article, balanced and steered clear from unproductive anti-Americanism. This thread seems to be focusing on just a few paragraphs about aiding the financially needy, though. Don't know why people are so vehemently against America being required to help other countries. Surely a nice giving America only makes the world a better place for America? Opens up markets, creates allies, spreads the American culture and all that. Post-WW2 - Europe and Japan, best examples of how American benevolence benefited the US and the world. Aiding other places works in a purely pragmatic sense, it need have nothing to do with moral obligations. An example off the top of my head; USA would find it in its interests to aid Africa and try and rebuild it purely for the fact that if they don't there is an average to small chance that some disease breaks out there that will eventually spread to the Western world and cause a pandemic. Or maybe there are new fuel resources to be bought from Africa. And Africans with money can buy nice US products, fuelling the US economy. America is unique as a superpower only in that it has some sense of self-awareness as to the inherent dangers of being a superpower that previous powers did not. It is important that it uses its self knowledge to the full. Anyways, its helpful to note that today may not be so crucial in the long term great scheme of things. Its not as if the Bush administration will be around forever, and after that, who knows?

[Guest Vern Gagne]

How so Kotz. What makes us similar to past global powers?

[Guest Kotzenjunge]

How so Kotz. What makes us similar to past global powers?

Being the sole superpower in the world makes us like the past ones on its own. Our own admission and insistence on it, as well as our attempts in the last two years to undermine the world's authority in our affairs also makes us similar, as such arrogance has never led to good things.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Our own admission and insistence on it, as well as our attempts in the last two years to undermine the world's authority in our affairs also makes us similar, as such arrogance has never led to good things.

Why should have the world have any say in our affairs? They can have an opinion, and be for or against what we choose do to. Besides, that the U.S. should determine what we do.

[Guest CanadianChris]

Why should have the world have any say in our affairs? They can have an opinion, and be for or against what we choose do to. Besides, that the U.S. should determine what we do.

Because the entire world is affected by the actions of the US -- it's like the mouse sleeping next to the elephant. Besides that, the US has certainly had a say in the affairs of other nations over the years, with the current situation being only the latest example.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

That doesn't mean that anyone but the U.S. should have the final decision in what we do has a country.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

i don't think bush's policies are being misread as arrogance at all. the gestures we made to turkey, for instance, seem to be rather arrogant in and of themselves. it's the whole attitude of withdrawing help to anyone else while at the same time expecting everyone to help us that's getting us in trouble.

The State Dept. definitely dropped the ball with Turkey. No argument here. We probably should have paid far more heed to their economic worries and concerns about the conflict. No argument.

 

But, by and large, we don't ask for anything for our assistance --- but in those situations where assistance is needed, I don' t think it's arrogant to expect it.

-=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

1) Sorry to hear it...but, this pertains to my argument about giving to the less fortunate being a social responsibility how? Less fortunate doesn't always mean people who are broke and need a handout...it means people who are incurably ill, children who are going hungry and without schooling, women who are being abused, etc., at home and in other countries. Being rich and not giving back to the less fortunate is just plain, unadulterated greed, which, last I checked, was one of the seven deadly sins.

 

And of course, if you lived here, someplace which takes the typically un-American attitude of free medical care for all who need it, you wouldn't be in the predicament you're in now. Something to think about.

 

2) It's not always about what is done, but instead HOW it is done. The article explained this very well.

 

3) That's one of the main problems. people who do good and then whine and complain about not getting credit aren't really good at all. Righteousness is its own reward.

 

And see how I got through that without resorting to childish insults?

1) Of course, if I lived there, I'd get long waits, the occasional hospital shutdown due to lack of funds, and inferior quality of care. There is a reason why people who can afford to do so come HERE for medical care.

 

And how many rich can you name who don't give back a ton? Heck, let's look at Bill Gates. If he didn't give one dime to "charities", he STILL would cause the employment of untold thousands of people, which is more than almost anybody in the world can claim.

 

Liberals love to look at the giving of money as the cornerstone of caring. Conservatives would rather not have anybody NEED money as OUR cornerstone of caring.

 

2) Let's look at what we did. We kept Europe free. We COMPLETELY rebuilt Germany and Japan. We fed Afghanistan for YEARS. We fed N. Korea for YEARS. We sent tons of aid to Africa.

 

If the world STILL wishes to lambaste us, again, the world can kiss off. We've done more good than ANYBODY out there combined.

 

3) The US doesn't want everybody to kiss our ass.

 

But we have a right to be more than mildly annoyed about all of the hostility that our benevolence has generated.

 

Let the world do well without our help --- if we are such a bad country.

-=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

How so Kotz. What makes us similar to past global powers?

Being the sole superpower in the world makes us like the past ones on its own. Our own admission and insistence on it, as well as our attempts in the last two years to undermine the world's authority in our affairs also makes us similar, as such arrogance has never led to good things.

Unlike every other superpower in history, there is NOBODY who is CLOSE to us on ANY level. When Britain was THE power, they weren't the richest country in the world and their military wasn't far and away the strongest. Ditto France.

 

We have more natural resources, more technological knowledge, more military prowess, and a culture that people choose over their own --- something that has not happened in an exceptionally long time.

 

And how have we undermined the world's authority over the past 2 years? We're MAKING the U.N live up to its agreements here and the Int'l Criminal Court and Kyoto Accords were terrible agreements that infringed upon OUR sovreignty.

 

And, like it or not, our sovreignty means more to us than anything else.

-=Mike

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

As the dominant country in the world, the US is expected, not asked, to do these things.

So, we try to help everybody and we're meddling in everybody's affairs and they hate us.

 

We try and leave people alone and they hate us for NOT helping.

 

Yup, gotta love these catch-22's.

-=Mike

It's easy to say "everybody hates the guy on top," biut I think one of the points of the article (if you read it) is that the US has been at the top for 100 years, and the hating thing seems pretty new.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

That doesn't mean that anyone but the U.S. should have the final decision in what we do has a country.

What's the point of having United Nations if every time we disagree with them, we say screw them and do our own thing. Then when someone disagrees with us... we change the name of foods named after them.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

That doesn't mean that anyone but the U.S. should have the final decision in what we do has a country.

What's the point of having United Nations if every time we disagree with them, we say screw them and do our own thing. Then when someone disagrees with us... we change the name of foods named after them.

In this case, we simply demand that the U.N HONOR ITS OWN RULINGS AND DEMANDS.

 

If the U.N refuses to do so, why on God's earth should a soul take them seriously?

 

Then again, this is the same group that has Libya heading the Human Rights Council, so that the agency is a joke is already well-established.

-=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

As the dominant country in the world, the US is expected, not asked, to do these things.

So, we try to help everybody and we're meddling in everybody's affairs and they hate us.

 

We try and leave people alone and they hate us for NOT helping.

 

Yup, gotta love these catch-22's.

-=Mike

It's easy to say "everybody hates the guy on top," biut I think one of the points of the article (if you read it) is that the US has been at the top for 100 years, and the hating thing seems pretty new.

There was the USSR "counterbalance" until about 1989-1990.

-=Mike

[Guest Spicy McHaggis]

Mike, doesn't it seem so difficult to argue these guys? They start already fundamentally wrong before I can even jump in.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Mike, you've missed the entire point of the article and your attitude is the exact reason why people are hating America.

 

We've always been the large, benevolent world power who doesn't take a hard stance on anything (but, of course, communism) and doesn't strike first, etc.

 

By having the attitude that everyone owes us something, this is what's bringing out the hatred. By being hard-liners, we're inviting the hatred. Whether we are morally right here or not, your attitude is the exact reason why the world hates us.

 

And quite frankly, in this age of weapons of mass destruction, there is absolutely NO chance we could conquer the world without being absolutely decimated ourself.

[Guest CanadianChris]

What makes you think he actually read it? I haven't read anything here that would convince me of that.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

In this case, we simply demand that the U.N HONOR ITS OWN RULINGS AND DEMANDS.

Cool. Let's start with Israel. They've been violating U.N. resolutions for nearly 30 years now.

[Guest JMA]

God, I hate it when people say the world owes America. It just reeks of nationalism. It's no better when other countries do it, either. It also fuels idiots like Adolt Hitler.

[Guest CanadianChris]

It also fuels idiots like Adolt Hitler.

Cool spelling.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

JotW, out of curiosity, could you provide a source on which resolutions they've disobeyed? I don't doubt it's the truth, but I'm curious.

[Guest JMA]

Cool spelling.

Hah... yeah, I need to check my spelling more.