Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted March 21, 2003 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2867619.stm Israel says the US has offered the country $10bn (£6.4bn) to bail it out of the worst economic crisis in its history. Israel's Finance Ministry said the package consisted of $1bn (£640m) in direct military aid and $9bn in loan guarantees. I say, if they need money, fine. But enough with the military spending packages. This country needs to stop financing death and destruction. Oh, and the picture/caption in that article is just lovely. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mad Dog Report post Posted March 21, 2003 Considering that they're the only country in that region with their head screwed on staright I say yeah. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest kkktookmybabyaway Report post Posted March 21, 2003 Why not -- we've spent $10 billion on worse... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 21, 2003 Do it. Israel's good people. This country needs to stop financing death and destruction How is this financing death? Because we help Israel defend itself? Yes, why don't we just sit back and watch those cowards blow Israel to smitherines through homicide bombings. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Zero_Cool Report post Posted March 21, 2003 I say help out Israel. They're an ally, and that's what allies do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted March 22, 2003 Why not -- we've spent $10 billion on worse... Because 10 billion here may not seem like a lot, but if this administration continues to be spendthrift on foreign policy and BLATANTLY IGNORE the sagging economy, then we'll be wishing for it back. I say Bush begins to spend less on milatary funding, and begins some humantitarian aid at HOME. Perhaps universal healthcare, or a way to allievate the enormous debt senoirs are paying to get medicine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vyce Report post Posted March 22, 2003 I say give them TWICE as much as they're asking for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted March 22, 2003 I say give them TWICE as much as they're asking for. I think they should be given aid, with the promise that none of it goes to the milatary. You people don't relize some basic facts about Israel: 1. On two seperate occaisions, Israel attempted to streal atomic secrets from American scientists. Are those the actions of an ally? 2. Israeli nationals have mistreated the Palestinans who live there since the birth of their state, when some people here act like they've been fighting the good fight... it makes me sick quite frankly. 3. We've been aid to Israel since the 70's, and now they're in the middle of an economic depression. maybe if they could pull their heads out of their asses, get a settlement with the PLO down, and stop having to waste money, then maybe they'd have a balanaced budget. Israel deserves what it may get: Economic Collapse. Also, how can Israel grow as a nation if we bail them out everytime they hit hard times? What would the US be like now if some other nation had magically swooped us out of the Great Depression? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted March 22, 2003 How is this financing death? Because we help Israel defend itself? Yes, why don't we just sit back and watch those cowards blow Israel to smitherines through homicide bombings. We talked about this mainly in another thread. Although we're spending enough money already so I guess there's logically no reason to not help them out, I would prefer to see Israel eventually sink or swim on its own. I am uncomfortable spending my tax dollars to support a racist, illegal-settlement-building government which routinely ignores UN resolutions. No matter what you think of the Palestinians, let the IDF kill and detain them on someone else's dime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted March 22, 2003 I say give them TWICE as much as they're asking for. The BBC article is misleading. To fully understand this, you have to look at the pattern and the history of US foreign aid to Israel. It's unlike any other foreign aid disbursed to other countries in need. Soon after Reagan took office, a year or so later, our aid to Israel has been transferred in one lump sum at the beginning of each fiscal year, which immediately begins to collect interest in US banks. The aid we give to other countries such as Egypt is paid in 4 quarterly installments. Secondly, Israel is not required to account for specific purchases. Most countries receive aid for very specific purposes and must account for how it is spent. Israel does not. They are free to spend that money on anything they wish. That's like cutting a loan to a new homeowner and not checking if he actually bought the property. It's a sweet deal. In addition to $3 billion in direct extortion (which quite ironically accumulates interest in US banks prior to being disbursed), Israel gets another $2 billion+ in indirect aid, which comprises of military support from the defense budget and offset caused by forgiven loans. I can go on for pages about how Israel gets foreign aid out of US, and in turn violates every goddamn treaty under the sun. Hell, we even come to their aid at UN and veto every critical bill. But that's going offtopic here. It's not secret that Israeli lobby in Washington D.C. is possibly the strongest of the bunch, coming very close to military-industrial lobby (hey, guess what? military R&D is a big business.. I don't want to even begin how much money flows between IDF/Pentagon on R&D projects yearly). So anyway, point is, since the Reagan years, no sane politician is crazy or suicidal enough to cut off the foreign aid to Israel. Even mentioning such a thing would end your career before you could score an interview with NYTimes. Israeli lobby is a force to be reckoned with. It's a simple case of indirect extortion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vyce Report post Posted March 22, 2003 I don't give a shit if they put every single cent we give them into their military budget. Sorry, don't share the "Israel is evil / racist / negative adjective here" view. Ask me how I feel about the Palestinians sometime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted March 22, 2003 Sorry, don't share the "Israel is evil / racist / negative adjective here" view. Ask me how I feel about the Palestinians sometime. It's their region. It's their war. I just don't want to fund it is all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted March 22, 2003 I don't give a shit if they put every single cent we give them into their military budget. Sorry, don't share the "Israel is evil / racist / negative adjective here" view. Ask me how I feel about the Palestinians sometime. You know the only reason we started funding Israel was because the Soviet Union funded the Arabs. It kinda scares me that that entire country's fate was decided by us based on something that doesn't even exist anymore. I say, if Israel wants to show us they're able to handle internal affairs themselves, then they should be willing to handle internal economic collapses themselves. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted March 22, 2003 You know the only reason we started funding Israel was because the Soviet Union funded the Arabs. It kinda scares me that that entire country's fate was decided by us based on something that doesn't even exist anymore. Eh, I don't mind how it started. They obviously deserve to be treated fairly, but I mind how the support is being used. I mean, we're cutting educational programs, downsizing social workers, and homeless and 40 million americans without healthcare roam the nation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 22, 2003 2. Israeli nationals have mistreated the Palestinans who live there since the birth of their state, when some people here act like they've been fighting the good fight... it makes me sick quite frankly. It boils down to the fact that what the Palestinians do (Homicide bombings) is cowardly, disgusting and deplorable. No matter what the Israelis do, it will always appear to be prevoked. Maybe if the cowards would cut their shit, we'd see once and for all who the Israelis are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted March 22, 2003 2. Israeli nationals have mistreated the Palestinans who live there since the birth of their state, when some people here act like they've been fighting the good fight... it makes me sick quite frankly. It boils down to the fact that what the Palestinians do (Homicide bombings) is cowardly, disgusting and deplorable. No matter what the Israelis do, it will always appear to be prevoked. Maybe if the cowards would cut their shit, we'd see once and for all who the Israelis are. Do you mean "Suicide Bombings?" If you lived without clean water, without medicine, without adequete shelter or a say in your own goverment, you'd start fighting too. (see: The Irish, The Jews in the Old Testament) As far as I'm concerned the Isreali Army are the real cowards. They must find it tough to fight off those kids with stones. Oh wait... I forgot... they have tanks! Maybe they should reread some passages in Exodus regarding the treatment of "Alien nations within Israel". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kotzenjunge Report post Posted March 22, 2003 Could someone tell me why Israel is paramount as far as our allies go? I seriously can't think of why our government always loves them so gosh-darned much. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 22, 2003 2. Israeli nationals have mistreated the Palestinans who live there since the birth of their state, when some people here act like they've been fighting the good fight... it makes me sick quite frankly. It boils down to the fact that what the Palestinians do (Homicide bombings) is cowardly, disgusting and deplorable. No matter what the Israelis do, it will always appear to be prevoked. Maybe if the cowards would cut their shit, we'd see once and for all who the Israelis are. Do you mean "Suicide Bombings?" No. I meant what I said. That's murder, not suicide. If you lived without clean water, without medicine, without adequete shelter or a say in your own goverment, you'd start fighting too No. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't blow up civilians. Human deceny and whatnot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted March 22, 2003 2. Israeli nationals have mistreated the Palestinans who live there since the birth of their state, when some people here act like they've been fighting the good fight... it makes me sick quite frankly. It boils down to the fact that what the Palestinians do (Homicide bombings) is cowardly, disgusting and deplorable. No matter what the Israelis do, it will always appear to be prevoked. Maybe if the cowards would cut their shit, we'd see once and for all who the Israelis are. Do you mean "Suicide Bombings?" No. I meant what I said. That's murder, not suicide. If you lived without clean water, without medicine, without adequete shelter or a say in your own goverment, you'd start fighting too No. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't blow up civilians. Human deceny and whatnot. Seeing your children die of starvation does a lot to clear that away AS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 22, 2003 2. Israeli nationals have mistreated the Palestinans who live there since the birth of their state, when some people here act like they've been fighting the good fight... it makes me sick quite frankly. It boils down to the fact that what the Palestinians do (Homicide bombings) is cowardly, disgusting and deplorable. No matter what the Israelis do, it will always appear to be prevoked. Maybe if the cowards would cut their shit, we'd see once and for all who the Israelis are. Do you mean "Suicide Bombings?" If you lived without clean water, without medicine, without adequete shelter or a say in your own goverment, you'd start fighting too. (see: The Irish, The Jews in the Old Testament) As far as I'm concerned the Isreali Army are the real cowards. They must find it tough to fight off those kids with stones. Oh wait... I forgot... they have tanks! Maybe they should reread some passages in Exodus regarding the treatment of "Alien nations within Israel". Yea- cause blowing yourself up really gets your point across. Causing the Israeli army 'cowardly' is one of the most ludicrous statements I've heard. Since 1949 they've been nothing but attacked and attacked by various other countries and have fought back every single one of them. They were even attacked on the holiest day of the Jewis calendar yet were still able to fight them off. Maybe if those Palenstinians stopped blowing up their country they'd be a bit mellower. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted March 22, 2003 2. Israeli nationals have mistreated the Palestinans who live there since the birth of their state, when some people here act like they've been fighting the good fight... it makes me sick quite frankly. It boils down to the fact that what the Palestinians do (Homicide bombings) is cowardly, disgusting and deplorable. No matter what the Israelis do, it will always appear to be prevoked. Maybe if the cowards would cut their shit, we'd see once and for all who the Israelis are. Do you mean "Suicide Bombings?" If you lived without clean water, without medicine, without adequete shelter or a say in your own goverment, you'd start fighting too. (see: The Irish, The Jews in the Old Testament) As far as I'm concerned the Isreali Army are the real cowards. They must find it tough to fight off those kids with stones. Oh wait... I forgot... they have tanks! Maybe they should reread some passages in Exodus regarding the treatment of "Alien nations within Israel". Yea- cause blowing yourself up really gets your point across. Causing the Israeli army 'cowardly' is one of the most ludicrous statements I've heard. Since 1949 they've been nothing but attacked and attacked by various other countries and have fought back every single one of them. They were even attacked on the holiest day of the Jewis calendar yet were still able to fight them off. Maybe if those Palenstinians stopped blowing up their country they'd be a bit mellower. Calling the current Israeli army some brave fighting force because they won a few wars, (The last of which was what? The 70's?) long ago is like saying the War on Iraq is justified, because we were right in World War II. Don't you people stop and think, "What kind of treatment makes a person think, 'Hey, death isn't so bad?'" Has it ever ocurred to you that maybe if the Israelis had lived up to their end of the bargain, and given the Palestinians self-rule, there would a dramatic decrease in these attacks? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 22, 2003 Seriously... the Holocaust is long dead and the Israelis are the center of Middle Eastern hatred So we should punish them for being Jewish? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted March 22, 2003 Seriously... the Holocaust is long dead and the Israelis are the center of Middle Eastern hatred So we should punish them for being Jewish? No, we should stop funding them though. They have done nothing but lie, if it hadn't been for US intervention, Israel would have been taken long ago. If they won't listen to the rest of the Western world about their obligation, then they don't deserve our money. Bob, I know you're Jewish. Keep in mind that I oppose the current regime in the Zionist state of Israel. I in no way harbor ill will to Jews. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 22, 2003 ...'Cause they happen to be in the region and not Islamic? Personally, I would like to take each Israeli and exile them to random areas of the western world, then return their territory to the Arabs. Seriously... the Holocaust is long dead and the Israelis are the center of Middle Eastern hatred. Why not exile the Palestinians? Why do they deserve the land more than the Jews? Has it ever ocurred to you that maybe if the Israelis had lived up to their end of the bargain, and given the Palestinians self-rule, there would a dramatic decrease in these attacks? I think that if Arafat would have accepted that fucking treaty that gave him 90 someting percent of what he wanted, that would help as well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted March 22, 2003 I think if Arafat stopped being an assclown and they were actually serious about peace then hopefully something will happen. No offence taken Zsasz. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 22, 2003 Sharon isn't the sanest man alive either, Bob. But he's better than Arafat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted March 22, 2003 I think if Arafat stopped being an assclown and they were actually serious about peace then hopefully something will happen. No offence taken Zsasz. With all due respect, Barron. Sharon is a war-monger, plain-and-simple. I think there needs to be a change of leadership at BOTH ends of the table before peace can come. Why not exile the Palestinians? Why do they deserve the land more than the Jews? Because they lived on the land since the Romans kicked the Jews out. They've lived much longer than the Jews have there. A small piece was only given to Israel to provent the Holocaust from ever happening again. It's their land, plain and simple. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Markme123 Report post Posted March 22, 2003 If you lived without clean water, without medicine, without adequete shelter or a say in your own goverment, you'd start fighting too. (see: The Irish, The Jews in the Old Testament) As far as I'm concerned the Isreali Army are the real cowards. They must find it tough to fight off those kids with stones. Oh wait... I forgot... they have tanks! What do you think the Israeli Army should do? Throw stones back?! They have the right to use their military to protect themselves. You know what? Fuck Israel and fuck the Palestinians. We should use the money on the war and on protecting ourselves from terrorists. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheZsaszHorsemen Report post Posted March 22, 2003 I think that if Arafat would have accepted that fucking treaty that gave him 90 someting percent of what he wanted, that would help as well. I think the 90% figure is a gross exaggeration, but I digress. There have been many situations where the either the Israelis or Palestinians made an attempt at peace and the other side rejected. Undertsand that most of the land being offered is worthless desert, when what the Palestinians were promised includes Jerusalem. I really think Israel should give up Jerusalem and 45% of the land. Then Israel still has more than enough land, and it has the very strong city of Tel Aviv. Sharon has NEVER offered the PLO an treaty. EVER. He wants them all dead. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted March 22, 2003 Because they lived on the land since the Romans kicked the Jews out. They've lived much longer than the Jews have there. A small piece was only given to Israel to provent the Holocaust from ever happening again. It's their land, plain and simple. Three wars since then have changed that drastically. Israel fought off Egypt and Seria and Jordan and whoever the hell else and won. To the victors go the spoils, to the Israelis go the land. t's no longer the Arab's lands. They lost it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
