Michael Moore: Asshat or patriot?

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

You know I really REALLY doubt that's true.

 

How can anyone do an ACCURATE poll in Russia? It'd be very difficult.

 

and don't forget America and Russia were essentially at war for 40 or so years. that's a long time .

[Guest Powerplay]

You know I really REALLY doubt that's true.

 

How can anyone do an ACCURATE poll in Russia? It'd be very difficult.

 

and don't forget America and Russia were essentially at war for 40 or so years. that's a long time .

Really? Why? You just go up to someone and ask. It's an opinion poll out of a few thousand people, not a massive election or something.

 

Yes, bitterness can run deep, but to support a tyrannical dictator who kills his own people over us is just absurdity.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

Russians also don't have the acsess to information that N. Americans do. The propaganda they hear is different from that which we hear.

 

Also I just doubt the accuarcy of any poll that is so completely one sided. it just seems very

odd.

[Guest Powerplay]

While I doubt that the Russians have hidden all of Iraqs wrong-doings from the people, I will concede that they are probably bombarded with tons of Anti-U.S. propaganda. Sad when we are suppose to work with these types of governments .

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Please point put the line where I mentioned the European Press.

 

I stated that other countries are also just as against this government and our leaders as I am. Never once did I specify Europe.

 

Although, I have to say YES I do believe a non-biased media when they talk about America.

Anti-Americanism IS a bias.

-=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

As far as other issues being up. Well that depends. WHen we win this war with Iraq, is it overwith or will the "Iran/Syria are evil and need a regime change" drum start beating? Go read the PNAC thing and it will make you tend to thing Iraq is just the first step. If there is no war or sense of war in the air, then as far as the homefront goes, our country is not really in better shape than before Bush took office, so I'd have to say his handling of the economy and domestic issues have been pretty much a failure. I mean what is he gonna say at the debates, "Umm I took out the Iraq regime, and if you re-elect me, Iran and Syria are next" ?

How many of Bush's policies have taken effect? The tax cut, by and large, has not. He can't get his nominees into office.

 

Is Iraq the end? No. This is a war on terrorism and on those who support it. Syria will be dealt with in due time. Ditto Iran. Ditto Arabia. This is not a QUICK war --- most important wars are not.

 

And is the economy any better than when Bush took office? Nope. It's no worse, but it certainly is no better.

-=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Another problem is, the average person you ask about the war that is not into politics persay, is not going to have much insight. If you ask them about it, they typically only know what CNN or FoxNews tells them which is pretty much, "US is close Baghdad, and is dropping bombs" That is the extent of the coverage, with a hostage rescue here, and a Saddam video there.

Sadly, there isn't much more to tell in terms of the war coverage. The war has been unspeakably successful for the coalition. It couldn't GO much better.

-=Mike

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

It's no worse

 

Bullshit.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

One thing. I didnt misinterperet anything. I seriously hear it everyday on the Boaton area. WAAF and WEEI callers always say, "Those soldiers are over there fighting for our freedom"

 

I'm not missing anything, this is what frustrates me every morning on the way to work.

In a sense, they are. They are fighting for our Freedom to live a life without fear.

Yeahhhhh....

 

because once Iraq's been taken care of everything will be a.o.k.

 

it isn't insuring your safety. I was watching CNN today and they're already broadcasting a poll showing 50% approval for an Invasioon of IRAN. That's really going to impress the rest of the Middle East.

Seeing as how the Middle East IS the problem, them not liking us is not exactly a concern.

 

If somebody wants to fund terrorism, they will suffer mightily for it.

-=Mike

[Guest cartman]

One thing. I didnt misinterperet anything. I seriously hear it everyday on the Boaton area. WAAF and WEEI callers always say, "Those soldiers are over there fighting for our freedom"

 

I'm not missing anything, this is what frustrates me every morning on the way to work.

In a sense, they are. They are fighting for our Freedom to live a life without fear.

Yeahhhhh....

 

because once Iraq's been taken care of everything will be a.o.k.

 

it isn't insuring your safety. I was watching CNN today and they're already broadcasting a poll showing 50% approval for an Invasioon of IRAN. That's really going to impress the rest of the Middle East.

Seeing as how the Middle East IS the problem, them not liking us is not exactly a concern.

 

If somebody wants to fund terrorism, they will suffer mightily for it.

-=Mike

Well I guess we should be attacking ourselves then because noone supported terrorism more than the US has over the years.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

One thing. I didnt misinterperet anything. I seriously hear it everyday on the Boaton area. WAAF and WEEI callers always say, "Those soldiers are over there fighting for our freedom"

 

I'm not missing anything, this is what frustrates me every morning on the way to work.

In a sense, they are. They are fighting for our Freedom to live a life without fear.

Yeahhhhh....

 

because once Iraq's been taken care of everything will be a.o.k.

 

it isn't insuring your safety. I was watching CNN today and they're already broadcasting a poll showing 50% approval for an Invasioon of IRAN. That's really going to impress the rest of the Middle East.

Seeing as how the Middle East IS the problem, them not liking us is not exactly a concern.

 

If somebody wants to fund terrorism, they will suffer mightily for it.

-=Mike

Well I guess we should be attacking ourselves then because noone supported terrorism more than the US has over the years.

In what way?

-=Mike --- expecting the "We armed Saddam" crap, but hopeful for something different

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

What about our monetary and military support of regimes whose only good aspect was that they weren't communist during the Cold War?

[Guest cartman]

*DING DING DING* We have a winnah!

 

Thanks Tyler.

[Guest Powerplay]

*DING DING DING* We have a winnah!

 

Thanks Tyler.

Wow, congradulations, you made an actual POINT!... Though it took someone else to actually give it some validity .

 

We supported terrorist regiemes, eh? How many of them were terrorists beforehand? We've made mistakes, admittively, but hindsight is 20/20. And to ask, how many of those regiemes were fighting against far better candidates, or did we just take the lesser of two evils?

[Guest NoCalMike]

"taking the lesser of two evils" argument is so absurd. Honestly that should be replaced with. "We want something done, we don't care who we hire to do it, we will worry about them some other time" Saddam was a thug from the BEGINNING. First thing he did when he got into office was to have all the people running against him executed. So no one needs to say, "he was a good guy when we gave him weapons"

 

And our economy is definately WORSE than when Bush first took office.

[Guest NoCalMike]

As far as other issues being up.  Well that depends.  WHen we win this war with Iraq, is it overwith or will the "Iran/Syria are evil and need a regime change" drum start beating?  Go read the PNAC thing and it will make you tend to thing Iraq is just the first step.  If there is no war or sense of war in the air, then as far as the homefront goes, our country is not really in better shape than before Bush took office, so I'd have to say his handling of the economy and domestic issues have been pretty much a failure.  I mean what is he gonna say at the debates, "Umm I took out the Iraq regime, and if you re-elect me, Iran and Syria are next" ?

How many of Bush's policies have taken effect? The tax cut, by and large, has not. He can't get his nominees into office.

 

Is Iraq the end? No. This is a war on terrorism and on those who support it. Syria will be dealt with in due time. Ditto Iran. Ditto Arabia. This is not a QUICK war --- most important wars are not.

 

And is the economy any better than when Bush took office? Nope. It's no worse, but it certainly is no better.

-=Mike

How can you feel that a huge tax cut and the cost of the war can co-exsist? Also, what changed for the BETTER after the first tax cut from Bush?

[Guest cartman]

The war is a really good excuse to say, "whoops sorry guys we can't give that cut I really REALLY wanted to give you."

 

Nothing has changed for the better since the 2000 election mess.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

*DING DING DING* We have a winnah!

 

Thanks Tyler.

Wow, congradulations, you made an actual POINT!... Though it took someone else to actually give it some validity .

 

We supported terrorist regiemes, eh? How many of them were terrorists beforehand? We've made mistakes, admittively, but hindsight is 20/20. And to ask, how many of those regiemes were fighting against far better candidates, or did we just take the lesser of two evils?

Actually, Judge, quite a few of them were terrorist regimes beforehand. I'm talking about during the Cold War, not after. In the third world countries we were trying to 'protect from communism', we often supported terroristic regimes in order to overthrow the communist government or defeat a communist uprising. This occured a lot in Latin America, and I'd even go so far as to classify our support of Chiang Kai-shek in China as misguided support for a bad regime.

[Zorin Industries 0]

I find it amusing to compare Bush saying that this is a war to free the Iraqi people and allow them to have a democracy, when during the cold war the the C.I.A. helped overthrow the DEMOCRATICALY elected Allende government and instead put General Pinochet in his place.

 

I'm prepared to give the new regime in Iraq a chance but i'm afraid i'm not too hopeful it will work in the long run.

[Guest Bosstones Fan]

As far as other issues being up.  Well that depends.  WHen we win this war with Iraq, is it overwith or will the "Iran/Syria are evil and need a regime change" drum start beating?  Go read the PNAC thing and it will make you tend to thing Iraq is just the first step.  If there is no war or sense of war in the air, then as far as the homefront goes, our country is not really in better shape than before Bush took office, so I'd have to say his handling of the economy and domestic issues have been pretty much a failure.  I mean what is he gonna say at the debates, "Umm I took out the Iraq regime, and if you re-elect me, Iran and Syria are next" ?

How many of Bush's policies have taken effect? The tax cut, by and large, has not. He can't get his nominees into office.

 

Is Iraq the end? No. This is a war on terrorism and on those who support it. Syria will be dealt with in due time. Ditto Iran. Ditto Arabia. This is not a QUICK war --- most important wars are not.

 

And is the economy any better than when Bush took office? Nope. It's no worse, but it certainly is no better.

-=Mike

How can you feel that a huge tax cut and the cost of the war can co-exsist? Also, what changed for the BETTER after the first tax cut from Bush?

Two things:

1. I now have less money taken out of my paycheck each month for income taxes, thus putting more money in my pocket. I consider that to be a good thing.

 

2. My company's tax burden was lifted enough to allow them to give me a 5% raise this year as opposed to the typical 3.8%. Also a good thing, in my book.

[Guest cartman]

I havent seen any decrease in my taxes taken from my paychecks yet...

 

Also my company has postponed giving raises until July, and even that is becoming doubtful. This is a major world wide health care company so I would expect something positive. Don't gimme this "Tax cut for the corporations and the rich to help make jobs for the poor" shit either because that's just plain retarded. Only place those "cuts" go is into the exec's pockets when it comes time for Bonus...and remember those exec. people are the ones getting more monay and more of a tax break. That's always been the republican way friends.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

*DING DING DING* We have a winnah!

 

Thanks Tyler.

So, because we gave money in the past, we have no right to try and stop it now? EVERYBODY gave these assorted morons and sub-human monkeys money for years.

 

Interesting philosophy there.

 

Go down in a flame of glory, huh?

-=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

"taking the lesser of two evils" argument is so absurd. Honestly that should be replaced with. "We want something done, we don't care who we hire to do it, we will worry about them some other time" Saddam was a thug from the BEGINNING. First thing he did when he got into office was to have all the people running against him executed. So no one needs to say, "he was a good guy when we gave him weapons"

 

And our economy is definately WORSE than when Bush first took office.

Well, in the real world, occasionally, you have to do business with unsavory people to get things done. The Taliban was better than the Soviets --- but they weren't better than a lot of others. Saddam was better than Khomeini -- but he's a problem nonetheless.

 

MOST world leaders are hardly bastions of goodness.

-=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

As far as other issues being up.  Well that depends.  WHen we win this war with Iraq, is it overwith or will the "Iran/Syria are evil and need a regime change" drum start beating?  Go read the PNAC thing and it will make you tend to thing Iraq is just the first step.  If there is no war or sense of war in the air, then as far as the homefront goes, our country is not really in better shape than before Bush took office, so I'd have to say his handling of the economy and domestic issues have been pretty much a failure.  I mean what is he gonna say at the debates, "Umm I took out the Iraq regime, and if you re-elect me, Iran and Syria are next" ?

How many of Bush's policies have taken effect? The tax cut, by and large, has not. He can't get his nominees into office.

 

Is Iraq the end? No. This is a war on terrorism and on those who support it. Syria will be dealt with in due time. Ditto Iran. Ditto Arabia. This is not a QUICK war --- most important wars are not.

 

And is the economy any better than when Bush took office? Nope. It's no worse, but it certainly is no better.

-=Mike

How can you feel that a huge tax cut and the cost of the war can co-exsist? Also, what changed for the BETTER after the first tax cut from Bush?

1) Tax cuts increase tax revenue. They ALWAYS have done that.

 

2) Running a deficit isn't necessarily a bad thing. A big reason we HAD surpluses is that Clinton gutted intellgence and the military -- two areas that have turned out to actually be kinda important.

 

And when the Bush tax cut goes into effect, I'll let you know.

-=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

I havent seen any decrease in my taxes taken from my paychecks yet...

 

Also my company has postponed giving raises until July, and even that is becoming doubtful. This is a major world wide health care company so I would expect something positive. Don't gimme this "Tax cut for the corporations and the rich to help make jobs for the poor" shit either because that's just plain retarded. Only place those "cuts" go is into the exec's pockets when it comes time for Bonus...and remember those exec. people are the ones getting more monay and more of a tax break. That's always been the republican way friends.

Of course, those evil execs actually PAY taxes while you get refunds every year.

 

It's not exactly comparable.

-=Mike

[Guest Bosstones Fan]

I havent seen any decrease in my taxes taken from my paychecks yet...

 

Also my company has postponed giving raises until July, and even that is becoming doubtful. This is a major world wide health care company so I would expect something positive. Don't gimme this "Tax cut for the corporations and the rich to help make jobs for the poor" shit either because that's just plain retarded. Only place those "cuts" go is into the exec's pockets when it comes time for Bonus...and remember those exec. people are the ones getting more monay and more of a tax break. That's always been the republican way friends.

Yeah...and?

 

Do you mind if I ask how much money you make annually? I'd be willing to bet that you don't make enough to see any real decrease in the amount of taxes you "pay" because you don't earn enough to gain a significant benefit from the tax cuts. In other words, for those too dense to understand, you barely pay any income taxes now, so your getting a tax cut just isn't a logical proposition.

 

And stop spouting that bullshit rhetoric about "only the rich" benefit from the tax cuts. It's absolutely true, and that's the way it should be. Just because you can "afford" to pay more in taxes doesn't fucking mean that you should have to.

 

And so what if it "goes into their pockets?" I got news for you: they earned that money, and if they want to keep it, then by God they should get to keep it. Just because they happen to have more than you doesn't make it "unfair" or "wrong" or whatever word the liberal whiners are using for it these days. You want to be one of the rich? Get off your ass and go earn it, because I'm sure as hell not going to give it to you...nor should I have to.

 

If you look back through history, you'll see that we always come out ahead when taxes are lower because good things do end up happening when people have more of their own money to spend (i.e. my company boosts the percentage of raises it gave this year all the way up to 5%).

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Do you mind if I ask how much money you make annually? I'd be willing to bet that you don't make enough to see any real decrease in the amount of taxes you "pay" because you don't earn enough to gain a significant benefit from the tax cuts. In other words, for those too dense to understand, you barely pay any income taxes now, so your getting a tax cut just isn't a logical proposition.

 

He'd notice a significant amount of tax break if the government decided to slash the payroll taxes. Such would put more money in his pocket and allow him to consume more, thus improving the economy.

 

And stop spouting that bullshit rhetoric about "only the rich" benefit from the tax cuts. It's absolutely true, and that's the way it should be.

 

Not really.

 

We've seen quite a few times how great the economy does when we emply strictly supply-side tax cuts. Examples: 1928-32, 1991, 2002-03...

 

Just because you can "afford" to pay more in taxes doesn't fucking mean that you should have to.

 

But when the idea behind it is that it will "help the economy", it's completely bullshit and never works.

 

PATRIOTIC "I EARNED MY MONEY" CRAP!

 

Whatever. When our country is in massive debt, these people should see it as their duty to fund our departments, such as the military who fucking protects them and, to a lesser degree, other important social welfare programs to help improve the quality of life around them. I'm sure they don't mind.

 

If you look back through history, you'll see that we always come out ahead when taxes are lower because good things do end up happening when people have more of their own money to spend (i.e. my company boosts the percentage of raises it gave this year all the way up to 5%).

 

Not hardly, but keep listening to what Rush says. It's simple: supply side economics is a wonderful myth that, in practice, only works when you proceed to cut taxes to the little man as well. We're not doing that right now. It's not a good thing. Rush is bad, Rush is evil, stop using his rhetoric.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

I havent seen any decrease in my taxes taken from my paychecks yet...

 

Also my company has postponed giving raises until July, and even that is becoming doubtful. This is a major world wide health care company so I would expect something positive. Don't gimme this "Tax cut for the corporations and the rich to help make jobs for the poor" shit either because that's just plain retarded. Only place those "cuts" go is into the exec's pockets when it comes time for Bonus...and remember those exec. people are the ones getting more monay and more of a tax break. That's always been the republican way friends.

Yeah...and?

 

Do you mind if I ask how much money you make annually? I'd be willing to bet that you don't make enough to see any real decrease in the amount of taxes you "pay" because you don't earn enough to gain a significant benefit from the tax cuts. In other words, for those too dense to understand, you barely pay any income taxes now, so your getting a tax cut just isn't a logical proposition.

 

And stop spouting that bullshit rhetoric about "only the rich" benefit from the tax cuts. It's absolutely true, and that's the way it should be. Just because you can "afford" to pay more in taxes doesn't fucking mean that you should have to.

 

And so what if it "goes into their pockets?" I got news for you: they earned that money, and if they want to keep it, then by God they should get to keep it. Just because they happen to have more than you doesn't make it "unfair" or "wrong" or whatever word the liberal whiners are using for it these days. You want to be one of the rich? Get off your ass and go earn it, because I'm sure as hell not going to give it to you...nor should I have to.

 

If you look back through history, you'll see that we always come out ahead when taxes are lower because good things do end up happening when people have more of their own money to spend (i.e. my company boosts the percentage of raises it gave this year all the way up to 5%).

If people have ANY doubts about whether the left wants a fair tax --- try and remember their reaction to the idea of a flat tax.

-=Mike

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Actually, the rich are more opposed to a flat tax than anyone. The flat tax would virtually eliminate any deductions they can use to lower their rate of taxation.

[Guest Crazy Dan]

I actually think that the tax system should be more of a flat tax acrss the boards. I think the flat tax should be around something like 18% or some number like that. That way everyone would benefit and not just the richest 1%. And I consider myself more to the left. But I do think people on the right whine a little too much about taxes sometimes, IMO. I consider taxes a necessary evil, even though I think that the whole system needs accountability in where the funds go.

 

One thing that would help the country, would be for the US to sliminate tax havens and force the tax cheating corporations to pay all the taxes they owe. These corporations owe a lot of money, and guess who is having to pick up the slack? That is right, all the tax payers in this country who do pay their taxes like good Americans should, regardless of how much they suck.