John Kerry vs GOP Congressmen

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...1-2003Apr4.html

 

Kerry Lashes Out at Republican Criticisms

 

By NEDRA PICKLER

The Associated Press

Friday, April 4, 2003; 5:31 PM

 

WASHINGTON - Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry lashed out at top congressional Republicans on Friday after they assailed him for saying the United States, like Iraq, needs a regime change.

 

"The Republicans have tried to make a practice of attacking anybody who speaks out strongly by questioning their patriotism," the Massachusetts senator said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. "I refuse to have my patriotism or right to speak out questioned. I fought for and earned the right to express my views in this country."

 

Kerry, a decorated Vietnam War veteran, backed a congressional resolution last fall giving President Bush the authority to use force to oust Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, but he repeatedly has criticized the president for failing to give diplomacy more time.

 

In a speech Wednesday in Peterborough, N.H., Kerry said Bush so alienated allies prior to the U.S.-led war against Iraq that only a new president can rebuild damaged relationships with other countries.

 

"What we need now is not just a regime change in Saddam Hussein and Iraq, but we need a regime change in the United States," Kerry said.

 

Several leading Republicans said Kerry's comments were inappropriate with U.S. troops fighting in Iraq. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said the statement amounted to "petty, partisan insults launched solely for personal political gain."

 

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, called Kerry's words "desperate and inappropriate." Said House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., "Once this war is over, there will be plenty of time for the next election."

 

Kerry dismissed the attacks, telling an Atlanta political gathering Thursday that patriotism is not mutually exclusive with questioning the war. One day later, he delivered an even sharper rebuke to the GOP complaints.

 

"If they want to pick a fight, they've picked a fight with the wrong guy," Kerry said in a telephone interview.

 

The lawmaker said this round of charges and countercharges is not the first time Republicans have made a "phony issue of patriotism." He cited last year's campaign against former Georgia Democratic Sen. Max Cleland, who lost both legs and an arm in the Vietnam War.

 

As part of a broader GOP campaign, Bush and other Republicans criticized Senate Democrats for holding up legislation to create a Department of Homeland Security over a labor provision, suggesting that the delay reflected weakness on national security. Republican Saxby Chambliss unseated the first-term Cleland in the November elections.

 

"I watched what they did to Max Cleland last year," Kerry said. "Shame on them for doing it then and shame on them for trying to do it now."

 

Kerry also mentioned recent GOP criticism of Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D., who said Bush's diplomatic efforts had failed "miserably" because he didn't secure a U.N. resolution for the war.

 

Following a speech to the New York State United Teachers convention in Washington, Kerry said, "I'm not going to let the likes of Tom DeLay question my patriotism, which I fought for and bled for in order to have the right to speak out."

 

Neither Hastert, Frist nor DeLay served in the military. In response to Kerry, DeLay spokesman Jonathan Grella said, "There's a difference between loving your country and leading it. Demanding regime change in America isn't unpatriotic - it's vile."

 

Kerry said Republicans have no right to criticize him when they are cutting funds to veterans hospitals.

 

Kerry's comments come on the eve of a trip to Iowa, where rival Howard Dean's strong anti-war stance has played well with the state's Democrats. Dean also has been critical of Bush and Kerry, suggesting that the senator waffled in his position on the Iraq war.

 

Dean also addressed the New York Teachers group Friday and said although he probably would not have used the words that Kerry did, "I have not criticized Senator Kerry for that, nor am I going to.

 

"It certainly would be unusual for me to line up with Tom DeLay, and I don't intend to start now," said the former Vermont governor.

 

Kerry's arrival on Sunday in Iowa also comes as another presidential primary rival, Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina, takes part in a town-hall meeting.

 

It's about fucking time someone had the balls to say "How dare you question my patritotism for questioning our elected leader." Fuck his politics, this needs to be said. When you are inside the borders of the United States you say whatever the hell you want about our leaders.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

DeLay is a fucking draft dodger and deserves no respect at all.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Oh, there's a lot more than that. Check out this list

 

 

Limbaugh, Rush Radio 1951 Vietnam anal cysts

 

AHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHWAAAAAAAAHAHAHA...grks..AHaheheawheeze..coughcough..h

rm.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Heh heh heh.

 

In Franken's book about Limbaugh, there's more about this.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

This whole issue is stupid. Kerry was just playing politics with his "change" comment. Big deal.

 

Although I will say that my view of Kerry has changed recently, and not for the better. I'm seeing a Lieberman/Edwards ticket in '04...

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Lieberman will never win the dem nomination.

[Guest Crazy Dan]

Unfortunately, I think if Lieberman was to secure the nomination, that he would end up looking like Bush-lite. And one thing that will drive away the more liberal members of the party is to come off as too conservative. I agree with Tyler's statement that he makes a great VP candidate at best. For the Democrats to win, they must put out a candidate that must be a better alternative than Bush.

 

As for Kerry's coments, I think the only thing that was wrong with them was the whole "regime change". That was a poor choice of words. But to question a Vietnam vet as unpatriotic, well that is really in poor taste as well. I am getting tired of this "if you criticize Bush, your unpatriotic" bull crap. Last I checked, this isn't Cuba, Russia, etc. The great thing about this country is that we can make comments about our leaders. And I am sure people questioned our leaders in wars of past.

 

Well, at least Bush is smart enough to keep his mouth shut. The last thing he needs is for him to get his "one year vaction" from National Guard duty brought up.

 

 

As for Tom Delay. He is such a partisan politician. If this was a war that Clinton was pushing for, you can be certain he would running his mouth night and day. Daschle is also an example of this as well, so I am critical of both sides. You either are against war or for it. It should never be a partisan issue.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

"Lieberman will never win the dem nomination."

 

Who is your early bet on -- or are you one of those It's-too-early-to-predict types? I usually am, but my guess is Lieb/Edwards...

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

I think the Dems need to run a ticket with a guy like Dean, but he may be a little bit too far left to get the nomination.

 

Judging from the early donation figures, it would appear Edwards has staying power and I think he can balance a ticket like Lieberman can... I think he'll get torched if he runs for the top spot, though, simply because he comes off as a major hick. So did Lincoln, though.

 

If I had to bet right now... I'd say it's going to be Kerry/Edwards, but it's still really wide open right now. Lieberman has been really quiet as of late, and I'm not sure he's making a hard push (especially since in the early polls, he's back in 6th or so) for the presidency. It could go to Dean, who's picking up a lot of ground on Kerry, though.

 

He's MY favorite out of the bunch, but then again, I'm a social progressive and he takes up a lot of the issues I'm concerned about.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

"I think the Dems need to run a ticket with a guy like Dean, but he may be a little bit too far left to get the nomination."

 

IMO, it would be like '72 all over again with Nixon/McGovern (sp?). Every now and then a political party needs to send a sacrifical lamb to the nomination slaughter (ie Goldwater in '64)...

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

The thing about Dean is that he's such a strong candidate... the problem is that he might be TOO strong. I disagree though, you should never throw up a sacrificial lamb... it costs too much money and discredits the party.

[Guest MD2020]

"I think the Dems need to run a ticket with a guy like Dean, but he may be a little bit too far left to get the nomination."

 

IMO, it would be like '72 all over again with Nixon/McGovern (sp?). Every now and then a political party needs to send a sacrifical lamb to the nomination slaughter (ie Goldwater in '64)...

Or Mondale in '84.

 

"Ha Ha Ha. Where's the Beef? No wonder he won Minnesota."

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

"it costs too much money and discredits the party."

 

Not always, look at Goldwater. It took almost 20 years, but his defeat, many say, planted the seeds of Reagan and company...

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Perhaps so, and that's a valid claim.

 

However, I think Bush is a lot more vulnerable than we're viewing him. The dems need to get a leader (or control of congress) who will push one of the party's main objectives, which is saving the nation's budget from the Bush tax cuts. That could, theoretically, throw us into a larger scale recession, and I think the party sees a need to actively push Bush in this coming election.

 

That being said, they could accomplish the same thing by campaigning hard for local vulnerable house and senate seats. I still think, though, that the time is ripe for a change in administration with the way our economy is going right now and the criticism falling on the administration for unwise fiscal policy.

 

This will come up a lot during the campaigns, in all likelyhood.

 

We'll see, though... it's still way too early to speculate.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

"it's still way too early to speculate."

 

Oh, yeah. But if there was no speculation, then there would be a whole lot of unemployed talking heads on cable news (not sure that's necessarily a bad thing...)

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

24 Hour Cable News = teh devil.

 

I'll agree with you about that

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

I mean I love having breaking news stories appear the moment they happen, but whenever there's a major event (Smart, Elian, etc.) I just steer clear of the usual suspects after all the major details are announced. It's amazing how many "experts" there are out there...

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

I actually think the "breaking news" portion is flawed more than anything. People are so quick to make sure they're the first to report something that they don't check their facts thoroughly enough.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

True, but most misreportings seem to get corrected quickly.

 

Besides, if not for cable news, there would be no O'Reilly (heh heh heh)...

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

What was O'Reilly doing before Rupert Murdoch founded his Ministry of Truth?

[Guest Mad Dog]

O'Reilly was a reporter on I one of the national news sources.

[Guest MrRant]

Bill O'Reilly joined FOX News Channel (FNC) as the anchor/host of The O'Reilly Factor in 1996. The O'Reilly Factor (8-9:00PM ET/PT Mondays through Fridays), the most-watched program on cable news, has caused the powerful in America to duck for cover as the rigidly enforced "No Spin Zone" deals with the nation's most important issues in a straightforward and provocative manner.

 

From humble beginnings on Long Island, New York, Bill O'Reilly has risen to become "the new pope of TV Journalism" according to television critic Marvin Kitman. In 2000, The Factor (as O'Reilly refers to it) passed Larry King Live to become the number one cable news program in the United States. Both of O'Reilly's non-fiction books, The O'Reilly Factor, and The No Spin Zone have each reached number one on The New York Times bestseller list. His novel Those Who Trespass has been optioned for the screen by Mel Gibson's Icon Productions.

 

While growing up O'Reilly had no idea that journalism would be his calling. He lived in a modest house with his father, mother and sister in the Westbury section of Levittown. O'Reilly began working in his early teens mowing lawns, which evolved into a house painting business.

 

Upon graduating from Marist College in Poughkeepsie, New York with a degree in History, he taught high school for two years in Miami, Florida. O'Reilly returned to school to pursue a Masters in Broadcast Journalism from Boston University.

 

After receiving his Master's degree, O'Reilly began his television news career in Scranton, Pennsylvania, followed by stops in Dallas, Denver, Portland, Oregon, Hartford, and Boston. In 1980, he anchored his own program on WCBS-TV in New York and later became a CBS News correspondent covering the wars in El Salvador and the Falkland Islands, among other assignments.

 

In 1986, Bill O'Reilly joined ABC News as a correspondent on The World News Tonight. During his three year tenure, he appeared on the show more than one hundred times, and received two Emmy Awards and two National Headliner Awards for excellence in reporting.

 

O'Reilly's career changed in 1989 when he joined the nationally syndicated Inside Edition as senior correspondent and backup anchor. Within three weeks, he took over the anchor chair from David Frost. During his six years at Inside Edition, the show was one of the highest-rated "infotainment" programs in America.

 

In 1995, O'Reilly left to enroll in the John F. Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University where he received a Master's Degree in Public Administration. Upon leaving Harvard, Roger Ailes, chairman and CEO of the then startup FOX News Channel, hired O'Reilly to anchor The O'Reilly Factor.

 

Bill O'Reilly continues to live on Long Island where his best friends are guys with whom he attended first grade.

 

Credit: FOXNEWS.com

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

...America to duck for cover as the rigidly enforced "No Spin Zone" deals with the...

 

Bahahahahha...

 

Gotta hand it to the Minitrue, they're really good at hiding it.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

Oh boy, another O'Reilly sucks debate. Let me pull my chair up to the front so I can get a good view...

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

No, I don't think he sucks. Frankly, he does a good job at doing what the public likes to see: berating people for having a different opinion.

 

Do I blame him for it? Of course not, he gets mad ratings.

 

However, saying it's a "no spin zone" is absurd. The guy's a conservative and pushes the conservative agenda. Does that make him a bad person? No. Does it make him a *tad bit biased*?

 

Uh, yeah.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

"The guy's a conservative and pushes the conservative agenda."

 

I wouldn't say he's conservative. He probably votes Republican primarily because he always complains about what's taken out of his paycheck, imo. I personally don't think he pushes a conservative agenda, but opinions are like, well, you know...

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Most of his stances are conservative ones, though.

 

He's not a total blind neocon, I'll give him that... but he's definitely a conservative.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...1-2003Apr4.html

 

Kerry Lashes Out at Republican Criticisms

 

By NEDRA PICKLER

The Associated Press

Friday, April 4, 2003; 5:31 PM

 

WASHINGTON - Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry lashed out at top congressional Republicans on Friday after they assailed him for saying the United States, like Iraq, needs a regime change.

 

"The Republicans have tried to make a practice of attacking anybody who speaks out strongly by questioning their patriotism," the Massachusetts senator said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. "I refuse to have my patriotism or right to speak out questioned. I fought for and earned the right to express my views in this country."

 

Kerry, a decorated Vietnam War veteran, backed a congressional resolution last fall giving President Bush the authority to use force to oust Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, but he repeatedly has criticized the president for failing to give diplomacy more time.

 

In a speech Wednesday in Peterborough, N.H., Kerry said Bush so alienated allies prior to the U.S.-led war against Iraq that only a new president can rebuild damaged relationships with other countries.

 

"What we need now is not just a regime change in Saddam Hussein and Iraq, but we need a regime change in the United States," Kerry said.

 

Several leading Republicans said Kerry's comments were inappropriate with U.S. troops fighting in Iraq. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., said the statement amounted to "petty, partisan insults launched solely for personal political gain."

 

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, called Kerry's words "desperate and inappropriate." Said House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., "Once this war is over, there will be plenty of time for the next election."

 

Kerry dismissed the attacks, telling an Atlanta political gathering Thursday that patriotism is not mutually exclusive with questioning the war. One day later, he delivered an even sharper rebuke to the GOP complaints.

 

"If they want to pick a fight, they've picked a fight with the wrong guy," Kerry said in a telephone interview.

 

The lawmaker said this round of charges and countercharges is not the first time Republicans have made a "phony issue of patriotism." He cited last year's campaign against former Georgia Democratic Sen. Max Cleland, who lost both legs and an arm in the Vietnam War.

 

As part of a broader GOP campaign, Bush and other Republicans criticized Senate Democrats for holding up legislation to create a Department of Homeland Security over a labor provision, suggesting that the delay reflected weakness on national security. Republican Saxby Chambliss unseated the first-term Cleland in the November elections.

 

"I watched what they did to Max Cleland last year," Kerry said. "Shame on them for doing it then and shame on them for trying to do it now."

 

Kerry also mentioned recent GOP criticism of Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D., who said Bush's diplomatic efforts had failed "miserably" because he didn't secure a U.N. resolution for the war.

 

Following a speech to the New York State United Teachers convention in Washington, Kerry said, "I'm not going to let the likes of Tom DeLay question my patriotism, which I fought for and bled for in order to have the right to speak out."

 

Neither Hastert, Frist nor DeLay served in the military. In response to Kerry, DeLay spokesman Jonathan Grella said, "There's a difference between loving your country and leading it. Demanding regime change in America isn't unpatriotic - it's vile."

 

Kerry said Republicans have no right to criticize him when they are cutting funds to veterans hospitals.

 

Kerry's comments come on the eve of a trip to Iowa, where rival Howard Dean's strong anti-war stance has played well with the state's Democrats. Dean also has been critical of Bush and Kerry, suggesting that the senator waffled in his position on the Iraq war.

 

Dean also addressed the New York Teachers group Friday and said although he probably would not have used the words that Kerry did, "I have not criticized Senator Kerry for that, nor am I going to.

 

"It certainly would be unusual for me to line up with Tom DeLay, and I don't intend to start now," said the former Vermont governor.

 

Kerry's arrival on Sunday in Iowa also comes as another presidential primary rival, Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina, takes part in a town-hall meeting.

 

It's about fucking time someone had the balls to say "How dare you question my patritotism for questioning our elected leader." Fuck his politics, this needs to be said. When you are inside the borders of the United States you say whatever the hell you want about our leaders.

Kerry is free to say whatever he wishes.

 

I'm free to say this is said SOLELY because HE wants to be President.

-=Mike

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

And yet, you overlook the hypocracy which is the traitor label being tossed at a Vietnam war hero.

[Guest Powerplay]

And yet, you overlook the hypocracy which is the traitor label being tossed at a Vietnam war hero.

By traitor, you mean a Benedict Arnold, right? Christ, Benedict Arnold, what ever the hell was he?