Iraqis celebrate in Michigan

[Guest Mad Dog]

You know X it's really easy to jump all over the Marines when your not in their shoes.

[Guest SP-1]

Equipment malfunctions. Choppers aren't made for sandstorms. It's war. This isn't the first time it's happened. Won't be the last. Our military is one of the best in the world, and I say that not out of pride but out of recognition.

[Guest EricMM]

Obviously it has happened, since it has occured a few times during this conflict, involving professional soldiers...

 

I think friendly fire is just part of war. Or at least it seems to be...

[Guest DrTom]

And I think it's ridiculous with how supposedly easy this whoel war has been, how many "friendly fire" and "accidental" deaths have occured. If we're so highly trained how fucking hard is it NOT TO SHOOT AT YOUR OWN GUY?!?!?!?!

Their military may be "Inferior" to ours, but that might be just a case of US Air Power more than that our Marines are just "better" than their military..

In other words, if it was just straight US Ground Force vs. Iraqi Ground Force, this war would have been a lot closer and more like Vietnam. I dare say we probably could have lost that, and the US Marines are HIGHLY HIGHLY overrated.

Spoken like a true civilian.

 

Tell you what: you keep spouting your crap from the rooftops, and men and women who are facing dangers your corn-fed ass couldn't even comprehend in its most pillow-bitingly wretched nightmare will continue to do their jobs and show why they're the best military in the world. 'Kay?

 

Hey, at least you're not as bad as Cartman. I don't get physically ill from reading what you write.

[Guest Vitamin X]

You know X it's really easy to jump all over the Marines when your not in their shoes.

Oh but I have been, and not to mention that my brother was one of the most highly decorated snipers in the 1st MEU and was based out of Camp Pendleton. He just got honorably discharged after his 4 years, and he's awaiting the call anyday now to go. And even he says the British Royal Marines are TOUGH.

 

You're talking to someone here who actually went through Marine Corps Basic Trainign and got kicked out for an idiotic reason (which was beign manic depressive and attempting suicide my sophomore year and being told to lie about it-thus getting me kicked out for 'fradulent enlistment' and the recruiter in serious deep shit.) I could go back if I wanted to, and actually have an ominous message from a Staff Sergeant on my answering machine as of this moment, but I do not really want to because like I said, the US Marines are pretty much nothing but cannon fodder to the whole of the US military. The Air Force does the bombing, softens them up, the Marines scare the shit out of them and die, and the Army cleans up while the Navy kicks back and sends pilots out.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Have you actually been in combat? Going through training, and actually being in combat is two different things.

[Guest cartman]

Hey, at least you're not as bad as Cartman. I don't get physically ill from reading what you write.

I love you!

[Guest Vitamin X]

And I think it's ridiculous with how supposedly easy this whoel war has been, how many "friendly fire" and "accidental" deaths have occured. If we're so highly trained how fucking hard is it NOT TO SHOOT AT YOUR OWN GUY?!?!?!?!

Their military may be "Inferior" to ours, but that might be just a case of US Air Power more than that our Marines are just "better" than their military..

In other words, if it was just straight US Ground Force vs. Iraqi Ground Force, this war would have been a lot closer and more like Vietnam. I dare say we probably could have lost that, and the US Marines are HIGHLY HIGHLY overrated.

Spoken like a true civilian.

 

Tell you what: you keep spouting your crap from the rooftops, and men and women who are facing dangers your corn-fed ass couldn't even comprehend in its most pillow-bitingly wretched nightmare will continue to do their jobs and show why they're the best military in the world. 'Kay?

 

Hey, at least you're not as bad as Cartman. I don't get physically ill from reading what you write.

RAH RAH RAH GO USA!!!

 

[Guest Some Guy]

You know X it's really easy to jump all over the Marines when your not in their shoes.

Oh but I have been, and not to mention that my brother was one of the most highly decorated snipers in the 1st MEU and was based out of Camp Pendleton. He just got honorably discharged after his 4 years, and he's awaiting the call anyday now to go. And even he says the British Royal Marines are TOUGH.

 

Where the fuck did anyone say that the Brits weren't tough? From what I've read this was about Iraqi vs. American military. How's that working out for the Iraqis?

 

The best of the Brits are probably as good as our's but they don't have the depth that we do. The best of Saddam's troops may be a good as our's, but it's doubtful considering the training (who has fought and won more wars than us in the last 200 years? We've learned a lot about this type of thing from experience), food, medicine, and technology at the disposal of our boys.

 

And I think it's ridiculous with how supposedly easy this whoel war has been, how many "friendly fire" and "accidental" deaths have occured. If we're so highly trained how fucking hard is it NOT TO SHOOT AT YOUR OWN GUY?!?!?!?!

 

Uh, it happens in war. Friendly fire happened in the Civil War for Christ's sake and all they had were muckets and cannons. Accidents happen, people and machines aren't perfect. Whet you said is like saying to Michael Jordan in his prime "If you were so highly trained how fucking hard is it TO HIT EVERY SHOT YOU TAKE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!"

 

I think it was you who said that Gulf War 1 would've been like Vietnam if we didn't have 30 countries on our side. I'm begging you to go read a book about the Vietnam War, not written by a Communist. Vietnam was a ckusterfuck because of irregular fighting (and we won vittually every battle anyway), tough jungle terrain, and politics, politics first and foremost.

Gulf War 1 was has nothing to do with Vietnam besides that they were both wars. The Gulf War was fought in clear desert for the most part and against organized troops and politics didn't fuck things up until we repelled Saddam out of Kuwait and they decided not to keep going and finish the job. Teh world was, as it always is content to leave well enough alone and it always seems to come back and bite them in the ass, the way teh Europeans appeased Hitler and the way we let Saddam stay in power for example. It takes corage for a politican to go to war, there are tremendous risks ionvolved an if it goes badly then your career is over. And as some of knew all along and some of realized after Vietnam and Korea, war is far too serious a proposition to tgo in half assed without the intent to win.

 

Despite your Marine training you seem to be wholly ignorant of what this is all about. You went to boot camp and saw the newbies just getting started, don't you think that they weed out the ones who can't handle it for whatever reason? They got rid of you didn't they? Don't you think thet the guys get better with experience? Calling the Marines as a whole "overrated" is laughable. Maybe tehy are just "cannon fodder" but ti takes a hell of a lot fo balls to go out there and be cannon fodder. Could you go out and do it, even with your minimal training? I don't know if I could.

[Guest Vitamin X]

You know X it's really easy to jump all over the Marines when your not in their shoes.

Oh but I have been, and not to mention that my brother was one of the most highly decorated snipers in the 1st MEU and was based out of Camp Pendleton. He just got honorably discharged after his 4 years, and he's awaiting the call anyday now to go. And even he says the British Royal Marines are TOUGH.

 

Where the fuck did anyone say that the Brits weren't tough? From what I've read this was about Iraqi vs. American military. How's that working out for the Iraqis?

Not particularly well, but I'm sure you're not readign close enough. From what the news is reporting and what I've read and seen, the British and Australians are having quite a role in this war. Tell it to the British Royal Marines who have been taking Basra under their control..

 

The best of the Brits are probably as good as our's but they don't have the depth that we do.  The best of Saddam's troops may be a good as our's, but it's doubtful considering the training (who has fought and won more wars than us in the last 200 years?  We've learned a lot about this type of thing from experience), food, medicine, and technology at the disposal of our boys.

 

Agreed.

 

I think it was you who said that Gulf War 1 would've been like Vietnam if we didn't have 30 countries on our side.  I'm begging you to go read a book about the Vietnam War, not written by a Communist.  Vietnam was a ckusterfuck because of irregular fighting (and we won vittually every battle anyway), tough jungle terrain, and politics, politics first and foremost.

Gulf War 1 was has nothing to do with Vietnam besides that they were both wars.  The Gulf War was fought in clear desert for the most part and against organized troops and politics didn't fuck things up until we repelled Saddam out of Kuwait and they decided not to keep going and finish the job.  Teh world was, as it always is content to leave well enough alone and it always seems to come back and bite them in the ass, the way teh Europeans appeased Hitler and the way we let Saddam stay in power for example.  It takes corage for a politican to go to war, there are tremendous risks ionvolved an if it goes badly then your career is over.  And as some of knew all along and some of realized after Vietnam and Korea, war is far too serious a proposition to tgo in half assed without the intent to win. 

 

But Saddam wasn't a blant military threat to anyone else in the Middle East, Hitler was. You can't even necessarily make the comparison, unless you talk about how they treat their own people. Looking at it from a humanitarian standpoint, it was the right thing to do, but looking at it from a diplomatic standpoint the United States is trying vigorously to earn that title as liberators without seeming like we're trying to loot them for their oil.

 

How did politics fuck up Vietnam in your point of view? Personally, I believe it's because we didn't seek the help of many other allies to completely overwhelm them like we did Iraq in Gulf War I. And as to your comment that it takes courage for a politician to go to war, just remember that there is a VERY fine line between bravery and stupidity, and we know which side Bush is already teetering to on that one.

 

Despite your Marine training you seem to be wholly ignorant of what this is all about.  You went to boot camp and saw the newbies just getting started, don't you think that they weed out the ones who can't handle it for whatever reason?  They got rid of you didn't they? Don't you think thet the guys get better with experience?  Calling the Marines as a whole "overrated" is laughable.  Maybe tehy are just "cannon fodder" but ti takes a hell of a lot fo balls to go out there and be cannon fodder.  Could you go out and do it, even with your minimal training?  I don't know if I could.

 

Oooooo BURN. Nice one, but unfortunately I've heard that one far too many times to really care. They got rid of me, but the fact that I can still go back in whenever I like makes that insult completely irrelevant. Of course guys get better with experience, I wasn't judging how ALL Marines and Marine Corps training is done based on how much of it I have already done. But people make them seem as if they're the greatest most amazing fighting force this world has ever seen, and I just beg to differ, in a historical aspect anyways. The United States Air Force and pretty much all of our air power, THAT'S what makes the United States the most powerful country militaristically right now, even over China.

 

And does it really take a hell of a lot of balls to go out there and be cannon fodder? In that case, why is it that the suicide bombers, who don't just risk their life, but GIVE IT UP COMPLETELY get called on as cowards and terrorists by the conventional news media? September 11th was the boldest move that Arab world EVER made on the United States, you cannot deny that. I in no way condemn their actions, but it still takes a lot of balls to believe in something and in a cause so strongly you are completely willing to give up your life for it, instead of merely just risking it.

 

So yes, of course I could do it, even with my minimal training (I was one of the top 5 recruits in my platoon anyways). There are thousands of terrorists that are willing to be suicide bomber,s and hell if someone was truly aggressively attacking our very own shores, I wouldn't mind risking my life to fight for the safety of our country then, whether part of the organized military or not. There are times I think about going back to the US Marines, but I stop myself when I think about what their purpose is overall in the US military.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Tell it to the British Royal Marines who have been taking Basra under their control..

Once again where did anyone question the Royal Marines?

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Well that's because they HATE Americans. Seriously. WHich is what worries me most about this Iraq thing. Dont you think it's been a little TOO easy fopr us to just walz into Baghdad and take over? Something is up. Saddam and his sons are alive and well i'm sure since there is NO way the enemy would admit defeat after all their "we're gonna win" talk over the past 2 weeks.

 

Put it this way. Does it scare you that our troops are now surrounded by alot of people that really dont like Americans? Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Turkey, Iran...etc.

 

I'm a bit nervous about the simplicity thus far is all so please don't go flaming me for sayin this. It's just a skeptical way to look at this.

The Arab world hasn't exactly had a wealth of victories over the past --- geez, century now.

 

Israel defeated SEVEN Arab states ALONE.

 

We could wipe out the entire region in less than a year if we CHOSE to do so.

-=Mike

[Guest TheMikeSC]

Muslims hate Americans because of religion. The fact that we INTERFERE with them for our own personal gain is just plain retarded and fules the fire more. I don't care what you or anyone else thinks about me and my personal beliefs, I just like to get them out because eventually something is going to happen that will make people like you realize just how right I am.

 

The Nazi's believed that they were more powerful than any other nation in the world, so of course they would claim victory is inevitable. Iraq KNOWS it has a far inferior military, which is why they used tactics like dressing as civilians and other sneaky shit. They know they can't beat out military with their military. I'm just not going to count out the fact that weak forces are still the most shifty and dangerous. As far as I know the Nazi's didn't have Chemicals to use against it's enemies. Or Nukes for that matter. Times are quite different now then they were when Hitler was pulling his shit.

Let's take an honest look at our recent military conflicts

 

We saved a Muslim country (Kuwait)

 

In Bosnia, we saved --- yup, the Muslims.

 

We freed two more Muslim countries (Afghanistan and Iraq) from Muslim leaders who killed FAR more Muslims than we have EVER dreamed of killing.

 

So, again, how are WE the bad guys here? Heck, how are we anti-Muslim?

 

The Arabs hate us because they hate how far their civilization has fallen. They hate that they are militarily impotent. They hate that they have little science to speak of. They hate that a culture that was once the envy of the world has become nothing short of a joke. They WANT to be in our position more than words --- but they cannot do so.

 

And, deep down, they KNOW the fault is theirs alone. They sit on top of oil --- yet most of their people live in squalid poverty. They're in the cradleplace of humanity --- yet it's one of the most ass-backwards places on earth.

 

The Arabs may not LIKE us --- but they fear us. And, with the leadership in those countries, that is ALL you need.

 

Arabia knows that the moment we pull out, the Saud family is gone. Immediately.

 

Kuwait knows that we SAVED them.

 

Syria knows that should we want to, we could conquer them in 2 weeks.

 

Ditto Iran.

 

When dealing with despots, you MUST approach them from a position of unquestionable power --- and that is where we are. You do not try and treat them as equal partners because, for whatever reason, their governments don't respect that.

-=Mike

[Guest Some Guy]

The Arabs hate us because they hate how far their civilization has fallen. They hate that they are militarily impotent. They hate that they have little science to speak of. They hate that a culture that was once the envy of the world has become nothing short of a joke. They WANT to be in our position more than words --- but they cannot do so.

It's not that they're civilization has fallen too much, it's that's our's has run circles around them for the last few hundred years. They haven't evolved and we and the rest of the West has. Some of them still thin thefucking Crusades are going on. Iraq seems to have a better chance at successful democracy because they do have some edu. and enough people. But Afghanistan will take decades, after giving teh country a crash course in 21st century 101.