The Mechanics of certain moves.....

[Guest AndrewTS]

Trish's Stratusfaction used to be pretty believable when she first started doing it and it looked like she was actually running up the ropes. Now everyone practically has to get her in the backdrop position while she flails her legs in the direction of the ropes in a sad attempt to look like she's running off it. She needs to start using another finisher, either the Chick Kick or the handstand hurricarana.

No. The "Chick Kick," other than having a bad, annoying name, should only be a transition move. It doesn't even look as forceful as a superkick, and you see guys like Tajiri, Van Dam, or gals in Japan tossing dozens of stronger looking kicks at each other during the match.

 

A standard Hurracanrana may be too bland. I think you're on the right track, though.

 

 

Here's a move that looks cool but I have no idea what it's supposed to affect - Reno's Roll the Dice/Test's Overdrive.  What the hell is it doing?

 

It's called the Test Drive when Test uses it. The Overdrive was Randy Orton's Natural Born Thriller-swiped reverse rocker-dropper style neckbreaker. He blew the move, injuring himself, and REPEATED THE SPOT (that and blowing the finish against Storm in the same night earned him a spot on my shit list until he redeems himself with a really good match) to end the match.

 

Both moves, coincidentally, would affect the neck.

[Guest HellSpawn]

I dunno if this fit in the thread but...

 

Why some people actually take/do some moves/holds better than others.

 

For example...

 

 

Some guys perform the Camel clutch in an "Evil sheik" way, just holding the head up, while some canadians actuallly use the "mexican" way, holding both arms and riding the guy.

 

I seen Jericho performing the Liontammer (the real LT) over RVD, Malenko, Benoit, Eddie, Trish, Stephanie !!! and even HHH (way back in 2000) but now, he have to aplply a very shitty crab, damn, his move looks weaker than a regular boston crab.

 

Here in Mexico we have some shitty things too...

 

That "hitting the ribs to make the guy raise the arms" is way, way too much silly.

[Guest deadbeater]

The vertical suplex works because the assailant is flipping the opponent over while all he does is fall back.

 

Trish has a very supple back. So Jericho can definitely work the Tamer on her.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Quick note on the Angle Slam.

 

Watch Bobby Eaton do it and see how when done properly, if is a legit move.

 

Tim

[Guest evilhomer]

I seen Jericho performing the Liontammer (the real LT) over RVD, Malenko, Benoit, Eddie, Trish, Stephanie !!! and even HHH (way back in 2000) but now, he have to aplply a very shitty crab, damn, his move looks weaker than a regular boston crab.

The Liontamer is very tough on the neck whether you're putting a lot of force on or not. He had to WWE-style it down to it's current levels. He also was brought into the heavyweight division when he came to the WWF, and it's guys like Kane, Rock, HHH etc just can't be put in a move like that because of size and lack of flexibility.

 

Speaking of camel clutches, whatsupwit the Steiner Recliner. The guy just gets on his knees, Scotty puts their arms over his legs, then he grabs their chin; there's no arch in the back whatsoever. Now it would be pretty unpleasent to have someone Scotty's size having a grip on my chin, but as a painful submission hold, I don't think so.

 

 

Here's a move that looks cool but I have no idea what it's supposed to affect - Reno's Roll the Dice/Test's Overdrive. What the hell is it doing?

I've seen Test spike the guy's head into the mat a couple of times so that it's kind of like a spinning DDT. But basically, when it's done as it should be, it's just a cool looking move that's sold well and moves so fast that you don't have time to realize that there was no impact.

[Guest Downhome]

He had to WWE-style it down to it's current levels. He also was brought into the heavyweight division when he came to the WWF, and it's guys like Kane, Rock, HHH etc just can't be put in a move like that because of size and lack of flexibility.

That reminds me of when Jericho wrestled Kane a while ago, and tried to put the Liontamer on Kane. You remember the time, when Jericho tripped about 3 times trying to do so, heh.

 

It always brings a smile to my face.

[Guest swilk]

My favorite is the basic dropkick.

 

If you connect, you're ok on the landing. If your opponent grabs the ropes and you miss, you roll around on the mat like you were shot!

[Guest razazteca]

Here in Mexico we have some shitty things too...

 

That "hitting the ribs to make the guy raise the arms" is way, way too much silly.

 

One of the spots that I dislike so much in Lucha Libre is the "I'll dazzle my opponet by making them attack each other or do a funny dance" Now we all know La Parka is the master of this but when Rayo de Jalisco does it, it looks weak and just takes away the suspension of belief especially the when an opponet is tricked to jump outside.......poor Mr Niebla why does he always fall for that!?!?!?

[King Cucaracha 0]

Remember the Tombstone The Undertaker did to Booker T at SS 2001...where he pointed down with his thumbs in mid-move...was Booker T magically 'hovering' or something?

 

Also, the School Boy rollup. I saw one on Velocity or something where Crash pinned Albert with a Roll-up...a REALLY weak one at that.

 

There's loads others...like the nerve hold Yoko used to use mid match to catch a breather. And all the moves Albert does to Benoit in full nelson style...why doesn't Benoit just relax his arms and escape? And Edge's faceplant.

 

But the WORST is definatly the Slingshot. HHH makes it slightly believable, but seriously it's just the lamest move.

[Guest Anglesault]

This might be the thread to once again rant about my least favorite heel spot.

 

The jump off the second rope into an extended foot. WHAT WERE YOU GOING FOR?

 

On second thought, might be the wrong thread.

[Guest eiker_ir]

that Tombstone was to Shane....

[Guest eiker_ir]

i hate whenever in a cruiser match or in Lucha matches, two cruiserweights star going all flipity-flopy all over each other for like 4 minutes and it always end with a freaking ARM-DRAG

 

i hate that

[King Cucaracha 0]

that Tombstone was to Shane....

Oh yeah...my bad. Damn, how could I forget that. It looked quality, but it was so damn contrived.

[Guest Anglesault]

i hate whenever in a cruiser match or in Lucha matches, two cruiserweights star going all flipity-flopy all over each other for like 4 minutes and it always end with a freaking ARM-DRAG

 

i hate that

[Guest JHawk]

Somebody brought up the dropkick. The explanation I always heard was that you expect to hit the dropkick, so when you do you can brace yourself for the fall easier.

 

As for the suplex, the idea when you bring the opponent down is to land on your own shoulders to absorb the fall. But if you listen to some of Jesse Ventura's old commentary, he acknowledges that he'd rather use a bodyslam because it does similar damage to your opponent without hurting yourself with a fall.

[Guest ElectricRaccoon]

This might be the thread to once again rant about my least favorite heel spot.

 

The jump off the second rope into an extended foot. WHAT WERE YOU GOING FOR?

 

On second thought, might be the wrong thread.

True. Is it that much to ask that they at least establish the possibility that they were going for a double axhandle? It's less than ideal, but it'd still be something. Maybe it's a really ill-conceived taunt, like "I bet you couldn't even kick me if I jumped off the second turnbuckle within range of a kick! And here...we...go!"

[Guest evilhomer]

Another explanation on the dropkick is that you were expelling a great deal of energy into the kick, since the kick didn't connect, all that energy is transfered into you fall.

 

 

Another way to look at it is when you swing and miss in baseball. Sometimes you put so much weight into the swing that if you don't connect, it knocks you off balance, and it's embarrassing as hell when it happens.

 

 

I've got waaaay too much time on my hands.

[Guest CED Ordonez]

Somebody will probably do this with ease but explain the mechanics of running the ropes.

[Guest AndrewTS]

Somebody will probably do this with ease but explain the mechanics of running the ropes.

When you Irish Whip some one you fling him/her with so much strength and momentum that you can actually make your opponent run against his/her will. They are as helpless as toys with wheels on them that are given a big shove.

[Guest The Amazing Rando]

How can a simple clothesline make someone flip like 5 times...I've taken them and I know all it does is knock me on my ass...even when i am running into it...I've never had enough force to flip my ass over...and if I can't do it on my own there is damn sure no way that Rikishi's fat ass can spin through the air

[Guest RepoMan]

Rolling Thunder is a pretty contrived move. I don't see how rolling around is going to make a splash that much more painful.

[Guest eiker_ir]

i don't like the face plant bulldog thingy that Edge does, looks bad IMO

[Guest Steviekick]

You don't flip around in circles when you get clotheslined because you don't haven't had the magical Samoan acrobatics training that Rikishi has.

[Guest AndrewTS]

You don't flip around in circles when you get clotheslined because you don't haven't had the magical Samoan acrobatics training that Rikishi has.

Hennig used to sell that way too.

 

Actually though, unique selling methods aren't really the topic. However, we could easily do a whole topic about them.

 

The flipping.

Rock's goofy overselling

Hall's Atomic Drop sell

Morely/Venis' hilarious "going limp" DDT sell

RVD's "act like I've been positively killed" piledriver sells from ECW

Flair Flip/Flair Flop

 

And so on. I can't really complain about that, because it looks damn cool and who cares if they are unrealistic?

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

I can explain the mechanics of Rolling Thunder. Theoretically, adding another 360 degrees of rolling to a 270-degree flip should add impact due to momentum. This mainly explains the move's reason when RVD completes the roll and then immediately hits the somersault senton. When he chooses to pause, it defeats the purpose.

 

It also acts as a way of making RVD seem better than his opposition. It's a way of RVD to say "look how good I am, I can do this roll and all of this taunting and STILL kick your ass," fitting right into RVD's cocky persona...when his persona is cocky instead of "hey man, don't worry, it's 4:20."

[Guest razazteca]

i hate whenever in a cruiser match or in Lucha matches, two cruiserweights star going all flipity-flopy all over each other for like 4 minutes and it always end with a freaking ARM-DRAG

 

i hate that

I prefer a flying headscissors or a hurricana finish, but really how different is this than say the multiple pin attempt spot that involves the bridge up into tombstone to refersal tombstone etc.....

 

It is more entertaining that watching to wrestlers punch & kick for 5 minutes.

[Guest Pa|adin]

I always thought the X-Factor was a stupid move. How can you make someone jump by just grabbing their head? Pulling on their hair?

[Guest CoreyLazarus416]

That's why the best selling of it have always been when the receiver dives pretty much head-first. Makes the move look both more brutal than it SHOULD be, and a little more realistic.

[Guest eiker_ir]

i hate whenever in a cruiser match or in Lucha matches, two cruiserweights star going all flipity-flopy all over each other for like 4 minutes and it always end with a freaking ARM-DRAG

 

i hate that

I prefer a flying headscissors or a hurricana finish, but really how different is this than say the multiple pin attempt spot that involves the bridge up into tombstone to refersal tombstone etc.....

 

It is more entertaining that watching to wrestlers punch & kick for 5 minutes.

 

i prefer it ending in a hurricanrana or something else too, but it really pisses me off when it ends in an armdrag, it feels so unsatisfying....

[Guest Jake the Muss]

It wasn't called the 619, it was just a trademark fake out.

Hence its original name, the Tiger Feign.

I have seen Black Tiger 3 use this move for offense before Rey Mysterio Jr did it in WWE, so is he responsible for its orgin?

No. I have seen that move used in Mexico by a number of wrestlers (Super Astro, Oro specifically) way before Black Tiger 3.