Austin/wwf update.....

[Guest Smeghead]

If the rumors are true, then Austin's attitude comes off as being a little unprofessional to me.  I can understand his problems with the nWo, but I don't see how this will make the situation any better.  Bottom line, he needs to be careful.  It doesn't matter how big a draw you are.  If you piss off the boss enough, you're gone.  Bret Hart ring a bell?

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

Well...technically Hart didn't start pissing McMahon off until after he was asked to leave...

 

...but I smell what you're cooking.

[Guest Dangerous A]

The writers and Vince have copied just about every gimmick and storyline this year, so Vince scewing Austin a la Bret is not out of the question at all.

[Guest goodolemr]

This is a complete DOUBLE STANDARD. Austin is a net favorite, so he gets a pass. But if a story came out of Hogan, or Hall, or Nash, or Triple H refusing to do a job, the smarks would be all over them.

 

Austin forgot that this is a business, and it depends on wrestlers laying down for one another and doing the job. Austin has become a mark for his own character, just like Bret Hart did.  No one is bigger than the business.

 

When they showed up, everyone was worried whether or not the nWo would do business when they returned. For all the trash Scott Hall gets by the smarks, he’s done everything asked of him since returning, including taking part in a humiliating angle on Smackdown on his third day back as a part of some kind of ‘punishment.’ On the other hand, Austin is acting like a selfish prick.

 

And the sad thing of course is, all the smarks who are defending Austin look like hypocrites. None of the Austin defenders pass the ‘if the shoe were on the other foot’ test. Let’s change the roles. Hall refuses to job and skips RAW and Smackdown. Don’t lie, you’d be demanding he be fired! It’s a clear double standard.

 

I’m a big Austin fan, but I for one am not going to give him a free pass on this. I just hope Austin comes to his senses and starts respecting the business again.

[Guest Nater]

Ok, what I said but a little clearer:

 

Hogan, Nash, Hall signed.. Hogan gets set up to do his typical "icon is now you" match and Hall or Nash are left on the X8 card .. and without hogging 3 matches (yes 2 was a lot for a month back) Hall would have a match vs somebody..

 

I likely see Austin putting his hand in on this one, as I seriously doubt that Hall said "Austin, your putting me over.. like it or not"

 

End result is Austin being able to beat up 2/3'rds of the nWo at a time.. which is now what is left of them. Are they a poison or just another punchline for Rock *horn horn* chico.

 

oh crap.. expecting logic from wwf.. i take it back ???

[Guest caboose]

the nWo is dead in the water so austin knows vince will come back to him and ask him to save the summer storylines.

austin may be acting like a spoilt brat but he holds all the cards.

you really think vince is gonna let go of his most consistent top drawer, and all that merchandise money.

the money austin generates is the difference between himself and bret, bret simply did not do the business for the wwf that austin does.

[Guest mastermind]

Double standard. Double standard. Yes, I agree with what some are saying that Austin carried the wwf last year when Rock and Triple H were out of the wwf. Austin was rewarded with the longest title reign since Shawn Michaels and Kevin Nash in 1995 with the exception of the two week reign of Angle. He got that long reign after beating Rock who carried the wwf along with Triple H the year before. I think the wwf rewarded Austin already for returning from injury.

 

The wwf wasn't exactly burning up the tv screens, so Vince brings back Ric Flair. He brings back Perfect, Goldust, Godfather, and Venis which were somewhat successful gimmicks to fill the void of missing gimmicks in the wwf. You see sometimes I think the wwf does have logic in what they do. The wwf wanted to give wcw either smackdown or raw. Basically the split right now is what they were planning to do with wcw. People were ripping the wwf for not signing the big names and making the invasion flop. People say the wwf made a mistake in thinking guys like Booker T and DDP could be seen on the same level of Austin, Rock, or Triple H.

 

So what does Vince do? He signs the big names that the CASUAL fans would see competition to the big dogs of the wwf. He signs people with name brand value to put into "wcw" or one half of the split. People were complaining that Vince made Shane the "owner" of wcw and thought Vince should have bought Ric Flair to head the group. Now Vince has Flair to head "wcw" during the draft. People were complaining that the wwf didn't do invasion like Eric Bischoff and wcw did in the summer of 1996.

 

So what does Vince do? He signs the nWo and uses them in a storyline to return to DESTROY and POISON the wwf like they did to wcw. Just like wcw used the nWo in 1996 by going after the top faces of Sting, Flair/Horsemen, Savage, and Luger the wwf makes Hall/Hogan/Nash go up against the clear cut top two babyfaces in Austin and Rock. The group couldn't go up against the third top face because he was in the storyline of facing the world champion at WrestleMania and fighting for his spot at the WM main event slot.

 

At Bash at the Beach during the initial ppv appearance of the nWo they WENT over. People complained that Hogan never passed the torch or whatever when he left in 1993. So, what does Hogan do? He jobs to Rock. The reason why Rock and Hogan are put in this "best ever" match is simply that Hogan and Rock are the biggest crossover stars and to the casual fan they probably would see it this way. Another reason is that Austin has the torch that Hogan didn't pass over. Hogan jobbing to Austin and vice versa long term wise wouldn't be best for business. The Rock is younger and barring injury or leaving for hollywood is the guy to base the company on. Vince knows this and putting his old guard crossover star in there with the present crossover star would help Rock who is at this moment below Austin in kayfabe terms.

 

I still say it made MOST sense for Austin to lose his match to get the biggest heat for the nWo. They were brought in to poison the wwf. Putting Hall in there with Angle or someone like that wouldn't have the same heat especially since Austin has only lost only once at the event.

 

Austin walks out a week later because he doesn't like the direction. What direction? The wwf is splitting and it has already been said since last year that Austin would headline one league and Rock the other league. Now because people like the nWo are here he is putting a hissy fit into things? Give me a break. I'm saying this only because of the thread because imo this sounds like a work. Reading this thing it makes Austin's future look up in there and that fits exactly into the draft storyline. We will see though. I have more confidence in Austin than this and also the wwf. Vince/Flair at Mania wouldn't get the same heat as Vince and Nash costing Austin a match with Hall, that's just me though.

 

I find it funny that people complain about Triple H getting the undisputed title(which I said Austin should have won at Vengence) after only being back 2 months(which I agree with), but say that Austin rehabbed himself and deserved the title at WM 17. Double standard as its basically the same thing. Vince won't fire Austin. he would just demote him. Vince wouldn't do that. Anyways, speaking about Bret he only didn't go along with Vince because of Shawn Michaels and losing in Canada. He didn't NO SHOW when he was put into angles with Yankem DDS or Pierre the Quebecor.

[Guest The Man in Blak]

And the sad thing of course is, all the smarks who are defending Austin look like hypocrites. None of the Austin defenders pass the ‘if the shoe were on the other foot’ test. Let’s change the roles. Hall refuses to job and skips RAW and Smackdown. Don’t lie, you’d be demanding he be fired! It’s a clear double standard.

Sorry, I don't quite see the clarity of this particular double standard that everybody's pimping here - hell, everybody trumps it around so much, it's becoming the equivalent of an internet fashion statement.

 

Someone tell me how there is even ONE close comparison between Austin, whom was almost unarguably the MVP of the WWF last year, and Scott Hall, who was resurrecting what was left of his drug-soaked career in Japan.  

 

Tell me with a straight face that Scott Hall is a loyal WWF worker with a clean record that NOBODY should have had any apprehension with.

 

Just last month, when Hall came in and was basically telling wrestlers to their face that he would kick out of their finishers and generally make them look stupid, the majority of the internet was calling for his head on a PIKE.  And rightfully so - Hall has never been renowned for his professional demeanor and his horrible "punishment" on Smackdown was probably a message from the WWF that he should keep in check.

 

And how confident was the WWF in Scott Hall's ability?  Fuck, they didn't even bother to BOOK the other big member of the nWo because they had no idea that Hall wouldn't stumble into the Skydome looking like some extravagant mixture of Wild Turkey and elephant shit.  Let's put the "shoe on the other foot" and let's say Hall didn't even arrive to Toronto on the night of Wrestlemania - how would that have made Austin and the WWF look?  Who would the 'net be putting on the cross THIS time?  

 

Or how about if the proposed storyline went down and McMahon came in to interfere on the nWo's behalf?  Would they have said that Austin got hosed?  Could it have potentially made the nWo look even WORSE, considering that they would have had to have Vince F'n McMahon come down and help them win over one man?  That would have made the nWo (and Scott Hall in particular) look like total feebs and it certainly wouldn't have done a lot for Austin either.

 

You can throw around this whole idealism that the WWF is some kind of dictatorship country where everybody should follow orders without question, but the WWF is in the business of ENTERTAINMENT and everybody is going to look out for themselves to some extent.  EVERYBODY upstairs has pull of some extent and deservedly so - it's not like their two floors higher than everybody else in the factory, working on the same damn conveyor belt.  Austin has been there, been loyal to the WWF, and when dealing with something that could damage his character's marketability, you're damn right he's going to have a problem with that.  Bret Hart probably gritted his teeth with every match he had while working with Yankem, Hakushi, or Jean-Pierre LaFitte, but the guys that were on top then had at least been with the company for longer than two months.

 

Hall should have felt lucky just to have even been re-hired into the WWF - and, just to remind everybody on the 'net of what they were saying a month ago, very little people thought the nWo was going to do anything more than hold down their precious midcard talent and stink up the main event (Mr. Smart Mark, you've got a call from cosmic irony, line one).   I'm as much of a fan of Scott Hall's ringwork and personality as anybody else, but I'm not going to be declaring this guy the next member of the papacy just because I had hard-on for the nWo in December '96 and I don't blame Austin one bit for not only being a little disappointed with having to work with him, but with the way the bookers/writers structured what could have been one of the most interesting confrontations that the nWo would have to deal with.

 

If you want to stick Austin on something in this situation, do it for him waiting until the last second to veto something and keep the damn nWo out of it.  (On that charge, he's guilty, but nobody's even really bothering to look at that particular facet of the case.)

 

But if you're mad because Austin "made the nWo look stupid", take that one to the bookers and the writers.

 

If you're mad about Scott Hall's downward spiral through the WWF midcard, take a look at the Raw main event from last week and tell me Hall's not going to be higher in the card than Austin if the two rosters combine on PPV.

 

Hell, if you're mad about Austin refusing to work with pre-slapnuts Jeff Jarrett, take a look at the actual tapes of what Jarrett was back then - that was even more of an personal offense than asking him to work with Hall, given that Jarrett had NO personality, and looked to be mired in midcard hell.  (If you think the fans would have been Austin/Jarrett more than they would have bought Rock/Mr. Ass, then maybe it's YOU that needs a stiff drink.)

 

But don't lay it on the lap of Austin based on this false pretense that Scott Hall is one of the most loyal, clean, and cooperative workers that the WWF has ever had the privelege of knowing OR hiring.

 

RANT OVER.

[Guest godthedog]

ok, i think there's something we need to clarify about the hogan/rock match: it didn't happen because austin refused to work with hogan.  it didn't happen specifically because vince thought hogan/rock could draw more money than hogan/austin (although i'm sure he eventually would've put hogan & rock together eventually anyway).  it happened because the rock wanted it to happen.  at the observer site is a rock interview where he states, plain as day, that he told vince to do everything in his power to make that match happen.

 

the lesson: everybody on top uses backstage clout to get what they want.  even the rock.

[Guest Brian]

They should have just had Triple H/Austin/Rock vs. NWO and Jericho vs. Angle at WrestleMania.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

I hope when Benoit comes back, they put him in a program with Austin and Austin refuses to job to him. Then it will be fun to see how people react.

[Guest Dangerous A]

Brian, you are right. They should have ran with a 6-man tag at WM instead of the individual match ups. This way the guys could go on longer, they can cover up the lack of workrate from the nwo side, and the nwo program would be able to go on longer. Hoganmadewrestling, I am intrigued by your statement as well. I know he has already worked with Benoit, but lets see now. Austin has said no to Gunn and Jarrett programs because he felt they were not on the level as he. Maybe he feels the same way about a possibly non-hyped return of the crippler.

[Guest El Satanico]

I don't see how you think him refusing to job to Beniot would even remotely be the same as him doing it to Jarrett and Hall.

 

Beniot has proven himself to be capable near the top of the card if you weeeill.

 

Jarrett until his return to WCW was totally unproven. At the time he was suppose to feud with Austin i don't think he was ready to move up. They should've built him up a little more before tossing him in with one of the main guys. As shown in his WCW return he was capable to move up but i think he needed a good IC feud with no Chyna before getting Austin to have a real shot of making it near the top in WWF.

 

And Hall, well we all know why he is unproven and a big risk.

 

So i don't see the connection.

[Guest Brian]

The Jarrett situation was different, because Austin refused to work with him. Austin puts himself above the company sometimes, and the NWO definately needed a win in some form.

[Guest]

If you guys remember Austin said he wasn't going to sell the nWo's shitty offense before they even came in. Personally I stand by Austin in this situation, he was one of the main guys who made the WWF as popular as it is/was and I think Vince McMahon owes Austin his dick for that. And for everyone who says Vince made Austin, that's complete bullshit Austin made Austin, Vince tried to make stars in the in the mid-90's (Duke "The Dumpster"?) and that didn't work. And for those who think Austin has a bad atitude, I don't blame him if I had carried a federation on my back for a whole year and then be asked to job to a guy for an angle that was dead already I wouldn't do it either. Think people Austin is one of the few guys who has the right to be a prick. Vince needs to remember who brought the cash home when it was needed, cuz if Austin hadn't of been there we might have seen WWF/ECW invading the WCW this summer.

[Guest goodhelmet]

"I hope when Benoit comes back, they put him in a program with Austin and Austin refuses to job to him. Then it will be fun to see how people react."

 

IF Austin refused to job to Benoit it would be a complete different set of circumstances.

 

1) Benoit was a main eventer prior to his injuries, something Hall never was in the WWF

2) Benoit has proven his professionalism and has a good reputation backstage, something Hall has not proven and doesn't have

3) You could liken Benoit's return to HHH's and I would offer the same criticism. While my smarkdom says Benoit should be WWF champion every day of the year, the reality is Benoit should have to prove himself again in the ring before any main eventer takes a fall for him.

 

-Because of the above mentioned, the circumstances are completely different.

 

"The Jarrett situation was different, because Austin refused to work with him. Austin puts himself above the company sometimes, and the NWO definately needed a win in some form."

 

Austin refused to work with Jarrett for several reasons. 1) Easily, because of merchandising 2)Noone can sit here and say Jarrett wasn't fucking Debra prior to her union with Stone Cold. I wouldn't want to wrestle or be involved in a program with my wife's ex. Then you have Benoit-Sullivan all over again. 3)Austin HAS drawn money, Jarrett never has and probably never will as WCW found out.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

I pass the test...as I was one of the first people to speak out against Austin and his work ethic while he was unhappy.

 

I took some good shit for saying that Austin was being unproffessional BEFORE the story broke...

 

SO I will continue my anti HHH campaign with a clear conscience...knowing that I pass the "shoe on the other foot test".

 

Also...Austin didn't forget this was a business...he remembers this is a business just fine.

 

He learned all about it when Hogan had him buried and fired from WCW.

[Guest goodhelmet]

"I pass the test...as I was one of the first people to speak out against Austin and his work ethic while he was unhappy.

 

I took some good shit for saying that Austin was being unproffessional BEFORE the story broke..."

 

Hey, I criticized Austin for another reason. For refusing to work with Hogan. That's why they went with Rock-Hogan. BUT Hogan and hall are two different animals. While Austin may have reason to be weary of all NWO members, getting to job to Hall or pinning Hogan are two different animals.

 

Austin shouldn't have been involved in the NWO story period. He should have been battling for the belt, instead we get a roided up, half cripple who happens to be INTENSE but can't work a mic to save his life etting the belt. Something is wrong here.

 

If Vinnie Mac wants to send a message to Austin that he's the boss then do it already but nooone has changed my mind that Austin didn't do the right thing by refusing to job to Hall.

[Guest godthedog]

nobody reads my posts i guess.  

 

Hey, I criticized Austin for another reason. For refusing to work with Hogan. That's why they went with Rock-Hogan.

 

“Now, my challenge is with Hogan. “When the idea was thrown at me in a conversation I had with Vince (McMahon), I said, ‘Frankly, please do anything you can to make this happen.

--from the rock's interview with the wrestling observer

 

please, stop saying that rock/hogan happened because austin refused to work with hogan.  i know the above quote doesn't exactly prove beyond the shadow of a doubt that austin had no problem working with hogan, but i'll take the rock's word over a sourceless rumor.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

This is a complete DOUBLE STANDARD. Austin is a net favorite, so he gets a pass. But if a story came out of Hogan, or Hall, or Nash, or Triple H refusing to do a job, the smarks would be all over them.

 

 

Of course, when somebody beats Austin, they usually end up being better off for it. Hogan has this amazing ability to job and to be HIGHER on the card than the guy who beat him.

 

Steve SHOULD be upset that the WWF is sticking three broken-down fossils in the friggin' ME picture of the WWF when they failed to draw for WCW so spectacularly since about 1998.

 

 

Austin forgot that this is a business, and it depends on wrestlers laying down for one another and doing the job. Austin has become a mark for his own character, just like Bret Hart did.  No one is bigger than the business.

 

When they showed up, everyone was worried whether or not the nWo would do business when they returned. For all the trash Scott Hall gets by the smarks, he’s done everything asked of him since returning, including taking part in a humiliating angle on Smackdown on his third day back as a part of some kind of ‘punishment.’

 

 

A punishment for being drunk and for pissing off numerous wrestlers backstage.

 

 

On the other hand, Austin is acting like a selfish prick.

 

 

Gee, all Steve has done is carry the WWF for the past few years, be the most consistently top-notch performer in a long, long time, went heel when asked, bent over backwards to try and make the heel turn work, etc.

 

And, for his hard work, he gets knocked BELOW Rock, Hogan, and HHH in the WWF face hierarchy.

 

 

And the sad thing of course is, all the smarks who are defending Austin look like hypocrites. None of the Austin defenders pass the ‘if the shoe were on the other foot’ test. Let’s change the roles. Hall refuses to job and skips RAW and Smackdown. Don’t lie, you’d be demanding he be fired! It’s a clear double standard.

 

 

Except that Austin is a draw, has not caused headaches backstage for years, can work a mic, can deliver in the ring, and isn't a time-bomb waiting to go off.

 

 

I’m a big Austin fan, but I for one am not going to give him a free pass on this. I just hope Austin comes to his senses and starts respecting the business again.

 

 

Austin IS respecting the business.

 

He's telling Vinnie, rightly, that his product is crap.

                      -=Mike

 

...Amazed that so few people wish to recognize how much pull Hogan et al have.

[Guest TheMikeSC]

The Jarrett situation was different, because Austin refused to work with him.

 

 

Jarrett a) was not even CLOSE to being over and b) Austin did have a reason to not work with him. JJ's comments about him offended him and he wished to have nothing to do with him.

 

 

Austin puts himself above the company sometimes, and the NWO definately needed a win in some form.

 

 

Why should the best worker in America job to a not-over, mediocre-at-best, time bomb of bad publicity? It would be STUPID beyond words to explain it.

 

And, as I read elsewhere, if the WWF wanted to explain the split, having Vince interfere in the Flair v UT match would've made FAR more sense.

                       -=Mike

[Guest Some Guy]

Just a little something that bothered me.  Scott Hall main evented Surivivor Series 92 (tagged w/Flair vs. Macho/Perfect, I know this wasn't the last match or world title match but it was the main event, look at the box cover to the tape) and Royal Rumble 93 for the WWF title against Bret.  So he was a main eventer at the very beginning of his run in WWF, oddly he wasn't really all that over until his face turn as a result of his loss to the Kid.

 

Austin should have done his job.

[Guest mastermind]

Rock saying he wanted to face Hogan at any cost or whatever to Mcmahon doesn't prove anything. Rock/Hogan could have gone at SummerSlam(which actually is better timing with his move already being out) or some other time. He was probably saying that when Hogan got signed or convinced Vince to sign Hogan. I heard from Meltzer and company about Austin refusing to fight Hogan EXACTLY on the weekend Hogan/Hall/Nash were announced as being signed before the thing even hit the net on Saturday evening.

 

Anyways, I want to see people defending Austin 3-5 years from now if he keeps this up. I guess Bret Hart should have kept the title and we should have stayed in the dark age era in 1997 because Vince's direction didn't oblige with him when the CASUAL fanbase was sick of the wwf's current product just as it was around until Royal Rumble this year. I see real hypocrisy here. I have a question to ask. If the wwf didn't bring in the nWo what would ratings be and what would the excitement be over WrestleMania I really want to know. Austin vs. Angle again? I always said from long time Austin should have been rewarded for his years of service with getting the undisputed title and head into WrestleMania although I understand why Jericho was given a shot. People here were complaining about the possibility of Rock/Austin again(which I still say should headline next year) or didn't want face Triple H against heel Austin. I guess people forgot the wwf's options.

 

You know not to start up anything, but Ric Flair use to like the nose candy should we jump on him like we do Hall just because he put on better matches and is Ric Flair? My point is he had a personal problem and people act like the man is the devil. I understand FULLY people's reserves about the guy, but when I keep seeing he's a drunk it makes me think people are just judging him on his extra-curricular activities and not what he means to storylines and matches. Hell, the wwf didn't book Nash at Mania because Nash IS RUSTY as hell. Did you see SmackDown when he couldn't even go over the top rope? Yeah, the wwf had more trust to book Hall because of the "workhorse" Nash's rust who is already complaining about having to work too much. To explain the split the wwf should have had Flair vs. Mcmahon plain and simple, but the wwf was smart to do his ring return in a Flair arena.

[Guest mastermind]

Oh, to show I'm an Austin fan I AGREED that Austin shouldn't have done the job to Jarrett or Gunn, but he could have at least wrestled them. They are beneath him and would only hurt Austin for him to job to them. They wouldn't look any more like a bigger star just Jericho doesn't look like a bigger star to casual fans for beating Rock and Austin.

[Guest goodhelmet]

OK, points I will reiterate:

 

Austin disagreed with putting Hall over, not wrestling him. I agree with Austin since Hall has yet to prove himself.

 

The reason Nash wasn't scheduled to wrestle was in case Hall fucked up. He was an insurance policy. Had nothing to do with his ring rust.

 

Austin should not have lost to Hall for the same reason Hogan should not have lost to Kidman or Jarrett. They did not deserve that win

 

Just because a booker feels something should happen does not mean it is always the right thing. Ex: Dusty wanting Rick Steiner to beat Flair. Vince Russo wanting the title on Tank Abbott, etc.

[Guest Some Guy]

Austin did apparently refuse to work with Hogan, who is the biggest star in the history of pro wrestling.  He would have gone over anyway, so I don't see why he didn't want the match.

 

I can understand Austin being pissed that guys he hates and/or is very bitter at for WCW (Hogan,Flair, etc..)  But he is starting to get closer and closer to becoming who he hated in WCW.  He never loses clean, is refusing to work with certain people, hasn't put out an effort for 2 months, hasn't modified his style or promos (What? not withstanding) for a 2 years (After the heel turn he went back to being almost the same exact character as before). This is starting to sound like Hogan to me.  And it's saddening to me that the greatest anti-hero in wrestling is becoming just like the other guys, an older guy who is way to paranoid about his spot and lacking the self confidence to maintain it without bitching to the boss.

[Guest RedJed]

"Austin disagreed with putting Hall over, not wrestling him. I agree with Austin since Hall has yet to prove himself."

 

How exactly is Hall supposed to prove himself anyway? He's sold every attack since he's returned. Just because the guy has personal demons doesn't mean he should be buried, especially at this level. Hall, to get over a credible main event type heel (which is the whole point to be in that match anyway) should have been put over. PLUS the plan was for Vince to interfere which would have created the logic in the split. Because Austin demanded the changes be made, you now have Hall (and Nash) as nothing heels who the casual fans can't even hardly accept at the main event level, AND there was no reasoning for the split.

 

"Just because a booker feels something should happen does not mean it is always the right thing. Ex: Dusty wanting Rick Steiner to beat Flair. Vince Russo wanting the title on Tank Abbott, etc."

 

True, but I don't think it's a wrestler (especially the wrestler who is supposed to lose in the situation) to refuse for it to happen in that manner. It would be one thing if some outsider just tried to change the plans of this match but it was Austin himself.

 

--Anyway I feel in this situation Austin is digging his own grave. Not only did he refuse to get the big money match at Mania against Hogan (which now looking at the whole scheme of things may have been the worst decision Austin could have made since his appeal compared to Rock could have held Hogan's pops down, which would have helped Austin anyway) but Austin was proposed to win at No Way Out and face Hunter at Mania. He refused because he didnt want to put over HHH again at Mania, as it was penciled one way or another, someone was laying down for HHH. So Austin put himself in this position, plain and simple.

[Guest goodhelmet]

"PLUS the plan was for Vince to interfere which would have created the logic in the split. "

 

Once again, it would have been logical for Vince to have interfered in the Flair-Taker match, NOT the Austin match. And if the WWF has shown the last year, Logic does not play into their thinking.

 

 

"Austin demanded the changes be made, you now have Hall (and Nash) as nothing heels who the casual fans can't even hardly accept at the main event level"

 

Which is where they should be rightfully. And if Vince cared about his damn angle, why would he force Austin into a program  with someone Austin didn't want to be involved with in the first place. Austin should have been kept apart from them and firmly in the world title picture.

 

 

"How exactly is Hall supposed to prove himself anyway? "

 

By not telling wrestlers he doesn't even know that he will kick out of their finishers. By not showing up 3-4 hours late to the shows with his other buddies. By not going to a Vegas bar your first week back with the company.

[Guest Some Guy]

With the exception of the lateness (for which he is/has never been punished for, that is not condoning it, but a fine or 2 would probably fix it IMO) the other infractions happened in his first few days.  I'm guessing he was just busting balls when he said he would kick out of the Dudleys(?) finisher.  His drinking is inexcusable but I haven't heard of a repeat offense.  He has done everything he possibly could do on screen to get himself and the angle over, so I think he deserves a little bit of a break.  I agree that a McMahon run in made more sense for the Flair/Taker match, but thats not what they wanted to do.  They wanted the run in during Austin's match.  How many matches has Vince cost Austin in the past?  A lot.  This is similar to Rock losing to Steph, only Hall is a wrestler and has credibilty with the fans.  The biggest difference I see it was Wrestlemania and if that was on Austin's mind it makes him kind of a mark,IMO.

[Guest pinnacleofallthingsmanly]

Let it be known that Austin nixed the run-in during his Wrestlemania match due to the fact that it made no sense and would ignore previous things that were established by WWF storylines. They wanted Vince to make a run-in during Austin's match which despite Vince's intentions of injecting a lethal poison into the WWF, would really make no sense and would serve no purpose other than providing an impetous for the split.

 

As far as Austin putting people over, you guys act like he is holding somebody down. Let's not forget that the people in the NWO are old and have looked like crap thus far. I don't mean to sound like Tom Zenk, but Scotch Hall looks decrepid, Kevin Stash looks like he forgot how to wrestle and please let us not get swept away in the favorable crowd response that Hogan has gotten since Mania. Hogan had better start supergluing his bandana to his head because  he doesn't exactly look like a spry young man who can hold his own with the rest of the wrestlers around. Furthermore, the steaming pile of crap that is writing the WWF stories has done such a poor job, the NWO storyline may probably fail no matter who puts them over.