(observer) jericho fails/steph saves mania!

[Guest bcu1979]

I usually just lurk but after getting my Observer in the mail today I had to vent. According to the latest Observer, most people in the WWF consider Chris Jericho a failure as champion. They blame his work style and his lack of heat. The feeling was Jericho could not carry the Mania match so Stephanie McMahon was made the focus of the match so she could give Jericho heat and SAVE it! Meltzer admits that a lot of people are saying this because they are afraid to say anything negative about Stephanie because it might get back to her.

 

The original plan for the match at RAW was to seperate Jericho and Stephanie in the storyline. He adds sarcastically that it's because Jericho is holding her down. But I would not be suprised if Stephanie actually believes that.

 

It later goes on to say that Triple is starting to get heat from people who never would have said anything bad about him before because word is leaking out about all the comments he makes about guys in production meetings to bury them.  

 

I feel like I am watching WCW collapse all over again.

 

In an unrelated note, Meltzer says the original plan for Austin at Mania was to have him wrestle Benoit before it was discovered that Benoit would not be back in time.  HHH/Jericho was always the plan for the title match.

[Guest bps "The Truth" 21]

1.  I think it was obvious to everyone who watched it that Jericho tried his best to carry HHH...in that he did fail.  

 

2.  HHH bury people?  NO!  Why did RVD get depushed on January 7th?

 

3. This is worse than what happened to WCW...because it is the only thing left.

[Guest The Mighty Damaramu]

I hate Stephanie. Even if everything that is reported backstage is false I still hate her for the simple fact that she annoys the #### out of me. Please god...let Jericho or HHH win on Raw.

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

Dear god, Stephanie *killed* the heat in that feud, both by her presence and her writing...I mean, how is a fucking dog supposed to add heat?

 

Interesting about Benoit...I wonder if that means he will be coming back as a heel. God I hope he's back soon.

[Guest Tony149]

3. This is worse than what happened to WCW...because it is the only thing left.

Yeah, also don't forget nobody in WCW dated the "Director of TV writing".

[Guest teke184]

Well, Jim Cornette DID imply that Bischoff was blowing Nash...

[Guest muzanisa]

Steph saves Maina, Jr saying they'd hire someone with her talent if she wasn't a MacMahon, the Jericho interview where the guys asked him if he was shining the belt or would he leave that for HHH to do after wrestlemania, Bob Holly refusing to cover his arse and the Jerry Lynn conspiracy theory. That was the best Observer for a long long time.

[Guest muzanisa]

Oh and the more chance of getting Rickson Gracie to do a job than Steph.

Before I even checked the net she annoyed me and now if half of what is said is true she sounds like the Kliq plus Hogan rolled into one.

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

I heard she said she doesn't want to be on TV and is only staying on because the other writers make her.

 

Which is pretty funny.

[Guest EUX4life]

the mcmahons have never really had any faith in jericho.  remember last king of the ring, when the title match was austin defending against jericho and benoit.  rather than sell the match on the challengers, it was sold on a fight that austin and mcmahon were having.  they built it up so the payoff would be whether or not vince was in austins corner or not, not the match itself.  they didn't think jericho could draw enough.  same thing with this wrestlemania.  it wasn't about the match itself, it was about triple h pedigreeing steph.  even the last No Way Out was more about the nWo coming in more than it was about jericho defending against austin.  you bought the show to see the nWo interfere, not to see the match itself.  and now with the match on raw. it's all about stephanie leaving, and not at all about jericho maybe winning the title again.  it's a wonder he's even over at all, and a wonder why the WWF still ever starts with him in the first place if they're just gonna take the heat off him after a week

[Guest teke184]

Somehow, I'm sensing that Jericho's contract negotiations this Fall will NOT go well.  He's the first "name" wrestler to renegotiate since Chyna was told "don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya."

[Guest]

>>>I heard she said she doesn't want to be on TV and is only staying on because the other writers make her.

 

Which is pretty funny.<<<

 

Why, people usually watch when she is on. Only Smarks have negative heat towards her. Since Steph is such a good heel, she can be used to get over angles and people who weren't previosuly over or needed that extra edge. So the writers may have actually wanted her around to use her as a plot device such as the case for  HHH/Jericho. What's so funny about that?

 

>>>it's a wonder he's even over at all, and a wonder why the WWF still ever starts with him in the first place if they're just gonna take the heat off him after a week<<<

 

He's still over becuase he's Chris Jericho and he's never been buried. Anyone in the WWF with name value will always be over. Look at the Big Show, he's been buried 10x worse than Chris Jericho, yet, he's still over.

 

And the McMahons writing team usually focuses on Jericho for long stretches of time. Unlike most of the Mid-card after Russo left, Jericho has always had some sort of direction. Whether it be as an egotisitcal heel, a bland babyface always hovering near the main events, or a main event heel as he is now. He's been pretty lucky as it is. Things could have come out much worse. For all the bitching and groaning I hear around here about Jericho's treatment he's always managed to get some of the choice positioning in angles and storylines. If no one had any faith in Jericho, he never would have been champ. Of course the WWF expected it to turn out better than it did. The fans didn't respond the way they would have liked, but that was due to poor booking more than anything else.  

 

Still, all in all, the Jericho heel turn is a failure as the HHH face run is shaping up to be. Both men will have to eventually shoulder the blame for it, as will the creative staff. The WWF obvioulsy blew it's load with both cases as they expected better results from both men since Jericho was a super-over heel in WCW and HHH was over as a face even when he and Austin were supposed to be mega-heels. I guess they just expected too much too soon from both guys. Neither man is helping himself at the moment, though Jericho is slightly better off as he's getting heat again, but in the past, his forced promos did nothing for him. HHH just isn't going to cut it as a face with his monotony and he's always stated he isn't comfortable palying a face. Oh well, we see why.

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

It's funny that she would try to pass off having a typically huge McMahon ego by blaming the other writers.

 

And the heat she gets is *not* proper heel heat.

[Guest cobainwasmurdered]

she gets "fuck i wish she would die so i didn't have to see her annoying ass anymore" heat.

 

my friends that don't read the internet hate her and always want to change the channel when she comes on, she is evil and if something isn't done the wwf will become even more of a parody of itself.

[Guest teke184]

Is it POSSIBLE for the WWF to be an even bigger parody of itself?  I think that the buildup to the HHH-Jericho match set THAT standard.  Lucy and Steph BOTH shit all over the product (figuratively and literally).

[Guest Midnight Express83]

Good Heel Heat is what kurt Angle gets.

 

Bad Heel Heat is what Steph Gets. BIG difference.

 

Jericho's title run wasn't a failor because of Chris Jericho. It was because once Feb came around it was either nWo, hulk Hogan, or Steph as the main focus of shows. I mean on Smackdown, the former world champ is annouced as so "Ladies And Gentalment, Stephanie McMahon and Chris Jericho". HELLO! When the fuck does the manager get annouced before the main eventer?

 

ALL the McMahons need to leave television.

[Guest]

*Sigh* How can you judge good heel heat from bad hee heat? I knew people who hated Benoit during his whole heel run because they said he was boring. Does that mean he got negative heat too?

 

Every wrestler is going to get the TV turned off on them every once and awhile. The Bossman Heat theory is beyond ridiculous.

[Guest reverse knife edge]

"Why, people usually watch when she is on."

Care to offer some sort of quarter hour ratings breakdown?

 

"Only Smarks have negative heat towards her."

Have you done a national survey?

 

"Since Steph is such a good heel, she can be used to get over angles and people who weren't previosuly over or needed that extra edge."

Stephanie is a lousy heel. She is a lousy actor. Chris Jericho and Triple H needed her help to get over? Hmmm, no. I seem to remember a Rock/Jericho feud just a couple months ago that was red hot and based on nothing more than good old fashioned booking. Stephanie's presence managed to suck every last bit of heat out of the Triple H/Jericho matchup. And there's nothing funny about that.

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

I seem to remember a Rock/Jericho feud just a couple months ago that was red hot and based on nothing more than good old fashioned booking.

Yep. That was based on personality, charisma, good mic skills and good mat skills.

 

Not a screechy, irritating woman.

[Guest Some Guy]

Knife Edge I think you hit on something when you said, "I seem to remember a Rock/Jericho feud just a couple months ago that was red hot and based on nothing more than good old fashioned booking."  If I were WWF I would just go back to simple old fashioned booking until I could find someone capable of writing good, coherant storylines.

 

If teh wrestlers really feel taht Steph put heat on this feud they're marks.  need I remind you that 1/7/2002 HHH gets the biggest pop ever then he and Steph start appearing on TV together and teh heat for HHH falls drastically.  Same for Jericho when Steph joined him, his heat went down.

[Guest bcu1979]

I have conflicting thoughts on how Jericho's contract negotiations will go.

 

One one hand, Triple H and Stephanie are clearly burying him as much as possible before the negotiations start so Jericho can have even less leverage than before to want a raise. It would not surprise me if Vince gave Jericho a lowball offer knowing Jericho would refuse to sign it. That way the WWF can say they wanted Jericho to re-sign but his head got too big, like Chyna.  

 

But on the other hand, Vince has signed Nash, Hall, Mr. Perfect and Goldust in recent months just so no start-up could use them. Jericho is a far bigger asset in the long run than any of those guys. (I would argue he's a bigger asset now as well.)  Jericho is also a guy a start-up company could build around. The same could certainly not be said for Nash or Hall.

 

And no matter how many jobs he does between now and July, he's still only a few months away from being the WWF champion and main eventing WrestleMania. It would be stupid of the WWF to show Jericho the door now after he's been one of their biggest and most marketable stars the past 3 years. They SHOULD have been trying to re-sign him to a new deal long before his contract was up, like they did with Rock, HHH & Angle.

 

I figure Jericho and the WWF will eventually come to terms on a new contract where Jericho gets a small raise so both sides can save face. But then again, this is a company that thinks Stephanie McMahon saved the main event at WrestleMania and believes they can build their television shows around a nostalgia act.  Who needs Jericho when Stephanie is the star of the show?

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

It would be stupid of the WWF to show Jericho the door now after he's been one of their biggest and most marketable stars the past 3 years.

Sadly, the WWF is increasingly showing that it *is* stupid.

 

I agree with you, Jericho will probably get a low offer and be forced into taking it. That'll happen when most of the contracts come up (apart from HHH of course) as there is no competition to better the offers.

[Guest]

>>>One one hand, Triple H and Stephanie are clearly burying him as much as possible before the negotiations start so Jericho can have even less leverage than before to want a raise.<<<

 

PLEASE, you sound like a mark caught up in a storyline. If that's YOUR OPINION, please pass it off as such. Don't make it seem like a fact as you obviously have no proof.

[Guest goodhelmet]

Hey, I don't normally agree with you Best Buy BUT in all fairness there is absolutely no proof to substiantiate Jericho being buried by Trips and Steph DUE to his contract negotiations. But it is documented that Trips and Steph have a strong say in storyline direction and it stands to reason that Trips was NEVER made to look as weak as Jericho during this run. I think that come May, Jericho will not be involved in any major storyline due to Vince's negotaitions with him. Vince is a cheapskate and will give Jericho as little as possible regardless of his past successes. If you see Jericho with a belt or in a major storyline come June then be surprised.

[Guest]

If HHH has any say in storylines I'd be surprised. For him to be such an egotist and "student of the game" he should know a few things.....

 

1). A good storyline, which Jericho/HHH/Steph was not.

2). That weak storylines, weak booking, and upper mid-card face reactions lead to weak champions.

 

Like I've said before, HHH has come out looking worse than Jericho. At least Jericho is getting ME heat for now while HHH is still bothered by Steph and is holding two basically worthless titles. Either HHH has no control over anything or he has becaome a horrible politician.

[Guest caboose]

it's funny,for the last few years the main event at wrestlemaina is supposed to be contested by the two men who have contributed most in the last year to the wwf product.

e.g 1999 austin(most over and exciting face) vs. rocky(most over heel wrestler and making people really want to see him lose)

2000(final two)-triple h(breakout star and heel monster) vs. rocky(carrying babyface duty with austin away and just so out of control popular)

2001 rocky(no real feuds but was still an enjoyable champion and happily took second spot when austin came back) vs. austin (worked as hard as ever from sept to mania to be in good ring shape and even more popular than rocky)

 

but this year, jericho finally breaks out of the midcard, nice austin alongide benoit and a super hot series of battles with rocky and increasing the conisitency in his ring work some big jobs aswell, vs. triple h- almost 8 months of tv getting paid to work out, pumping himself with sterroids(you know it's true), comes back works 2 and a half months, not exactly at his best or setting the crowd on fire.

and of course triple h walks of with the title!

hmmm...

of course triple h isn't getting pushed cos he's banging steph, and jericho isn't being made to look stupid.

[Guest goodhelmet]

Point granted on the storyline sucking shit. But trips DID win the main event of Mania and it was he and Steph who were mainly involved in the angle, where Jericho was an afterthought. Trips and Steph received all of the airtime and were the center of attention the entire time. Did one person doubt that Trips would not walk out of Mania champion? That's because Jericho's build since Trip's return has sucked shit. Did Jericho get a twenty minute segment with a fake priest, a horrible duet and get to pedigree his father in law? NO.

Was Jericho allowed to pin one opponent since joining with Steph without Steph's help . NO

I think Jericho came out much worse.

[Guest]

Caboose, write something coherent please and then I'll respond to you.

 

HHH didn't win the ME of WM because the REAL main event was Rock/Hogan. The title match was an afterthought. And most of the 20 minute skits and angles HHH were involved in were horrible and hurt his credibility with the WWF fans. I still content that Jericho looks better at this point than HHH. Now if Steph pins Jericho on RAW then I'll agree with you.

[Guest goodhelmet]

Regardless whether it had heat or not is irrelevant but it was the last match on the card, billed as one of three main events adn was the world title match to boot. By your reasoning, WM13 was headlined by Bret-Austin because it had more heat and was more important than Sid-Taker (the actual main event).

 

"And most of the 20 minute skits and angles HHH were involved in were horrible and hurt his credibility with the WWF fans."

 

I agree but when the challenger is more concerned with his dog and ex-wife then the Champion, how weak does that make your champion look. Trips was building himself as so superior that only personal problems with his ex could distract him. Not once did he show any concern that Jericho would beat his ass. Jericho was booked as weak.

 

As for monday, let's just wait and see because I think that match will be more screwy and overbooked than Sting-Hogan2

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

But HHH is the champion, probably for a long run, and Jericho is headin back to the midcard. He'll be lucky to get a Backlash rematch.