My View on things

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

Anti-smark threads amuse me at a site called thesmartmarks.com.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

I'm sorry that every single fucking segment doesn't entertain your negative ass.

Why. Why, with the talent that they have, can't they put on a show where everything is good?

Everyone has a different opinion on what "good" is.

 

Me and my brother are really enjoying the Mr. America segments, alot of people here aren't enjoying them for whatever various reasons they have.

 

Just one example.

 

Different strokes for different strokes.

 

The 13-14 year olds watching the show more than likely enjoy the TnA segments more than us older folk, who have been there and done that... etc

 

Not every fans would want to see 8-20 min. technical matches or brawls or whatever, everyone has a preference and they will enjoy certain parts of the show more than others.

 

 

(Tries to steer this thread back to a decent discussion and away from any more HHH buries Jericho jokes)

This is exactly the way I look at it... so many here assume that they have all the right answers... that everything we want would work better than the stuff they're putting out now. Maybe it would... but then again, maybe it wouldn't. I love technical matches, but when I hear fans chant "boring" at Eddie and Benoit during their last ppv match encounter, I gotta wonder if this kind of thing would truly bring the fans back

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Everyone has a different opinion on what "good" is.

 

Disagreed. There are universal standards for *good*. People may be *entertained* by different things, but *good* is more of a fixed standard. What I may find entertaining and what I may find good can be two different things. I enjoyed the movie Mr. Deeds, I wouldn't really call it 'good'. I didn't enjoy Being John Malkovich, but I can realize that it had specific properties in it that made it 'good'. You can take something apart and say why it was good. "Entertaining" on the other hand, you can't really explain. My OAC Creative Writing teacher probably could explain this concept better.

 

Me and my brother are really enjoying the Mr. America segments, alot of people here aren't enjoying them for whatever various reasons they have.

 

They take up too much time, they feature two performers who do not work house shows, they are a rip-off of old angles, they don't really lead to any good matches, they prevent the advancement of other storylines and wrestlers to get over.

 

Just one example.

 

Different strokes for different strokes.

 

Yes, but you can't really call the Mr. America angle 'good' can you?

 

The 13-14 year olds watching the show more than likely enjoy the TnA segments more than us older folk, who have been there and done that... etc

 

TnA can be found elsewhere. There's nothing really that the WWE makes unique about it. They dedicate WAY too much time towards it.

 

Not every fans would want to see 8-20 min. technical matches or brawls or whatever, everyone has a preference and they will enjoy certain parts of the show more than others.

 

Yeah ok, so why doesn't the WWE give that variety? Everything is watered down. Why don't they actually give those technical matches, why don't they give those cruiserweight matches, why don't they give those brawls (ok, all matches are brawls)?

 

(Tries to steer this thread back to a decent discussion and away from any more HHH buries Jericho jokes)

 

It's not really a decent discussion though. You're just saying "well I enjoy it" without saying why.

[Guest Heel In Peril]

Triple-R, you're steadily getting more over with me.

 

 

::tries to spark "tankabbott sucks" chant::

 

::reminds tankabbott it's only a joke before anything gets oat of hand::

[Guest tank_abbott]

*Looks around...shakes head...gives up..*

[Guest tank_abbott]

Disagreed. There are universal standards for *good*. People may be *entertained* by different things, but *good* is more of a fixed standard. What I may find entertaining and what I may find good can be two different things. I enjoyed the movie Mr. Deeds, I wouldn't really call it 'good'. I didn't enjoy Being John Malkovich, but I can realize that it had specific properties in it that made it 'good'. You can take something apart and say why it was good. "Entertaining" on the other hand, you can't really explain. My OAC Creative Writing teacher probably could explain this concept better.

 

Me and my brother are really enjoying the Mr. America segments, alot of people here aren't enjoying them for whatever various reasons they have.

 

They take up too much time, they feature two performers who do not work house shows, they are a rip-off of old angles, they don't really lead to any good matches, they prevent the advancement of other storylines and wrestlers to get over.

 

Just one example.

 

Different strokes for different strokes.

 

Yes, but you can't really call the Mr. America angle 'good' can you?

 

The 13-14 year olds watching the show more than likely enjoy the TnA segments more than us older folk, who have been there and done that... etc

 

TnA can be found elsewhere. There's nothing really that the WWE makes unique about it. They dedicate WAY too much time towards it.

 

Not every fans would want to see 8-20 min. technical matches or brawls or whatever, everyone has a preference and they will enjoy certain parts of the show more than others.

 

Yeah ok, so why doesn't the WWE give that variety? Everything is watered down. Why don't they actually give those technical matches, why don't they give those cruiserweight matches, why don't they give those brawls (ok, all matches are brawls)?

 

(Tries to steer this thread back to a decent discussion and away from any more HHH buries Jericho jokes)

 

It's not really a decent discussion though. You're just saying "well I enjoy it" without saying why.

Okay I'll try...

 

RRR all your last post said is you disagree with me because my opinion is different than yours. Your trying to tell me what I enjoy or find good or entertaining. I KNOW what I enjoy. Hogan. I find him entertaining. I thinks its GOOD that he's on my TV every week. Sure I'm waxing nostagia (sp?) but I'm enjoying it. Its only a TV show, really don't take this too seriously. Who cares if its killing the house show business and not drawing a rating, as long as I'm entertained I'll watch. (Baaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!)

 

 

And I'm sorry that I gave my opinion that this was a good discussion, you disagreed therefore I am obviously wrong.

 

(Allows thread to return to HHHate)

[Guest Heel In Peril]

If I can be serious for a minute, tank_abbott. I believe what Triple-R is trying to communicate to you is that although your opinion may be different than his (and a number of others here), he would still respect it so long as you provided any examples to prove that you are in fact correct by any means. In my opinion, besides the fact that you've been failing to even attempt to do so, it doesn't matter as much as the fact that it's you who continues to put down the opinions of others and accuse us of elitism. Even if R-Trips had no point at all, I don't recall him (or most anyone taking opposition to you) ever expressing that you should NOT explain yourself. If anything, (that's right) we've been beseeching you to do so. Convince us! Don't give up; convince us! And until THAT point in time comes around... let us get back to our HHHate. I rather enjoy it...

[Guest tank_abbott]

What would you like me to explain? I've stated my opinion:

 

No matter what is on the screen some one will bitch about something, and I could care less about the $$$ issues and stupid decisions being made by the WWE, because it's there product to fuck up, its not like Pres. Bush starting a War or anything serious. Its merely a product that I've enjoyed for 20 years, dispite a great many flaws.

 

(I'm going slap myself when I read this tommorrow, as i've got to get out the door, and I'm writing a rushed, ineloquient response)

 

(Good Day)

 

See ya 7:45 am tommorrow!

[Guest Heel In Peril]

What would you like me to explain? I've stated my opinion:

 

No matter what is on the screen some one will bitch about something, and I could care less about the $$$ issues and stupid decisions being made by the WWE, because it's there product to fuck up, its not like Pres. Bush starting a War or anything serious. Its merely a product that I've enjoyed for 20 years, dispite a great many flaws.

 

(I'm going slap myself when I read this tommorrow, as i've got to get out the door, and I'm writing a rushed, ineloquient response)

 

(Good Day)

 

See ya 7:45 am tommorrow!

So what?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Okay I'll try...

 

RRR all your last post said is you disagree with me because my opinion is different than yours. Your trying to tell me what I enjoy or find good or entertaining. I KNOW what I enjoy. Hogan. I find him entertaining. I thinks its GOOD that he's on my TV every week. Sure I'm waxing nostagia (sp?) but I'm enjoying it. Its only a TV show, really don't take this too seriously. Who cares if its killing the house show business and not drawing a rating, as long as I'm entertained I'll watch. (Baaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!)

 

Being entertained by it and it being good are two different things. I disagree with you saying "it is good" because (a)your opinion isn't based on anything other than "it entertains me" and (b)there are other elements in the storyline which are bad. I already listed some of them. All you said was "I don't care about them" - well fine, you can not care about them but do *not* ignore them when calling the storyline *good*. If this board were all about people having their own protected, untouchable opinion and everyone just said "It's good cause I like it" "It's bad cause I don't like it" then there wouldn't be much discussion here.

 

You haven't justified your opinion. You just said "It's good cause it's entertaining and I enjoyed it" - wow, that's great for a 5 year old but let's be a lil more advanced here. Anyone can have an opinion; it's the reasons and justification FOR that opinion that give it worth.

[Guest El Satanico]

This board has gotten alot more bitchy during his horrible run WWe has been on for the last few years. WWe is responsible for making us like this so don't say it's our problem.

 

However, I'm wondering what started the civil war we seem to be entering around here. The "smarks" and "anti-smarks" have seemingly entered full scale war like has never been seen.

 

This war looks like it could grow to become worse than WWe only fans vs. WCW fans. We WCW fans defended alot of what WCW did, but never do I recall us doing it in such a blind manner that the "anti smarks" are now employing.

[Guest tank_abbott]

I find it funny that I've fallen to the point of being "anti-smark", just because I'm not tearing the WWE a new a-hole with each post.

 

What would you like me to say? Your really hung up over the fact that I, in my heart of hearts find certain storylines "good" and "entertaining" that you don't happen too.

 

I've been a fan of Hulk Hogan since 1985, poor workrate be damned. Whatever causes the unexplainable allure I have when this man is on my TV Screen I cannot say. (Was that repetitive?) But whatever it is I'm totally digging the McMahon/Hogan storyline.

 

It has a nod to the past with the not so mysterious masked man "plot" twist. (See Red River Jack, The Machines, Mr.R, Both Yellow Dogs, etc)

 

Its also has encompassed several of my "heros" from the past (Piper/Mean Gene/Snuka) and can potentially make a star out of whatever young guns get involved. (O'Haire and who knows who else might be used) The potential is there if they want to use it. Thus maybe, just maybe the storyline will help the company out in the long run, since it hasn't boosted business in the short term. (The blame for WMania's buyrate fall can be deferred to many things not just Hogan/McMahon, even if that was one factor)

 

So I hope that clears up why I have the (apparently unique) opinion that this particular storyline is "good" and "entertaining".

 

 

(WARNING OUTRAGEOUS STATEMENT FORTHCOMING)

 

And just cause the masses here don't enjoy it, doesn't make it a "poor" fued. (Here it comes) Remember the masses were the ones shouting "Crucify HIM!" to Pontius Pilate.

 

(Sits back...waits for further bashing)

[Guest saturnmark4life]

I don't have a problem with Vince/Hogan in a lower-midcard slot, where it would produce harmless comedy matches and not be the FOCUS OF THE ENTIRE SHOW.

 

Spoiler (Highlight to Read):

when you get every heel on smackdown saying they're after Mr. America at the PPV, you not only waste all your TV time on a comedy feud involving part time and non-wrestlers, you actively drag half your roster down with it and are basically admitting you don't have a fucking clue what to do with them.

 

Like I believe I said before, tank, there are bits of the product that I will always enjoy no matter how much that is based solely on markout value (Flair, dreamer etc) or how insignificant, but I'm not gonna ignore that the current product defies logic and is self destructive. And if I want to keep seeing the aspects of US wrestling I enjoy, I still want there to be a WWE in a few years, which there won't be at the rate they are going.

[Guest tank_abbott]

But as I said before, who ever wipes out Hogan (if they choose to go in that direction) will have gotten a majior "rub". The potential for making somebody a "star" is there... But even I have doubts if the WWE will do it the right way...

 

So this mid card "comedy" angle could lead to somewhere much better.... COULD being the operative word.

 

Brock killed Hogan last August and it helped his credibility leading up to his star making match with the Rock.

 

Mr. America might still be unmasked as someone else (with Hogan making the save) and that person could in theory get Hogan's rub as well. Lots of theories.... no concrete yet.

 

 

I by no means am implying this is the best way to build new stars, I'm just explaining how I feel this angle could potentially help the WWE.

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

i honestly have to try extremely hard to believe that there are people this stupid to think all "smart" fans are like this......

[Guest saturnmark4life]

But as I said before, who ever wipes out Hogan (if they choose to go in that direction) will have gotten a majior "rub". The potential for making somebody a "star" is there... But even I have doubts if the WWE will do it the right way...

 

So this mid card "comedy" angle could lead to somewhere much better.... COULD being the operative word.

 

Brock killed Hogan last August and it helped his credibility leading up to his star making match with the Rock.

 

Mr. America might still be unmasked as someone else (with Hogan making the save) and that person could in theory get Hogan's rub as well. Lots of theories.... no concrete yet.

 

 

I by no means am implying this is the best way to build new stars, I'm just explaining how I feel this angle could potentially help the WWE.

I enjoyed Brock/Hogan, and think it was a good way to set up the PPV. However, Hogan came back. That should have been it. Brock is the future of the company. He kills Hogan. But no. Vince has to do that. This is why I have a problem with your comment about making new stars using Hogan, they did fine the first time around, but now he's feuding with a 50+ year old non-wrestler. Who the fuck is getting any useful rub there?

 

Hogan was one of the best things about 2002, seriously. But he has outlived his usefulness in such a big role.

[Guest tank_abbott]

The word I keep using is potential saturn, This angle can potentially help propell younger stars who get involved to the next level.

 

Here's a brief idea:

 

Piper vs Mr. America (This Sunday) Mr. America comes out with a full Red White and Blue Body suit/mask on...

 

Shitty Lil match for a few mins (3-5) with Mr. A doing all the trademark Hogan stuff (test of strength..etc) Piper finally gets the sleeper hold... Suddenly the crowd roars as Hogan comes through the crowd with front row ticket in hand (he's banned by McMahon) Sean O Haire jumps on the ring and warns Piper...Piper turns to see Hogan gets rolled up 1-2-3. Hogan then unmasks Mr. America as whoever (A Bigger size guy to match Hogan's stature, would obviously work the best) O Haire vs The New guy, New Guy vs Piper, Hogan (reinstated) /New Guy vs Ohaire/Piper... Then Hogan and the New Guy can move on to other tag opponents until The new Guy gets Hogan's rub like Edge did via the Tag Team.

 

If there gonna use Hogan anyway, you might as well make a new star or 2 along the way

[Guest Mystery Eskimo]

Hogan doesnt really have any rub left to give, although the idea of having him in a tag team is good- he can let his partner do the work, come in and pop the crowd for the finish.

[Guest saturnmark4life]

I can see how that might work, but for chrissakes, I'd rather see New Guy/Good Worker and leave guys to get over on their own merits. Why drag new guys into feuds with 'expired' wrestlers instead? Hogan's pops are dying down, he cannot draw anymore, and he should have been left well alone after his run in 2002. Hogan's done.

 

I accept that Mr. America being unmasked as someone else is a HUGE possibility. That doesn't mean it won't be Ed Leslie, though.

[Guest tank_abbott]

Again I'm not saying using Hogan in the capacity that they are using him in is necessarily the best for the long term business, but if they insist on pushing him, let a young guy get the rub (which IMO is still possible) from the Hulkster.

[Guest saturnmark4life]

Absolutely, you could stick him in a tag team, but Hogan sure as hell isn't going to retire as a midcard tag wrestler. Having him around at this point has more negatives than positives. The reason I loved Brock/Hogan so much is we didn't see Hogan afterwards, much like with Yoko the first time around. That should have been it.

[Guest tank_abbott]

So long story short, no matter how poor or great a storyline is you'll dislike it cause Hulk Hogan is involved. gotcha.

 

 

PS

RRR you gonna rip these ideas apart pretty soon? I have to get to bed!

[Guest saturnmark4life]

No, I'd say that point was rendered invalid by my praise in this very thread of his run last year, which I enjoyed more than most. I also said I don't hate this feud, I just hate that it takes an upper card role and the actual wrestlers don't have a match for the PPV. I think the Mr. America thing is fairly amusing, but there's no WRESTLING to accompany it.

[Guest Coffey]

RRR, why don't you ever use quote tags in your post instead of just making your replies in bold? It's pretty much the same amount of work...

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

What would you like me to say? Your really hung up over the fact that I, in my heart of hearts find certain storylines "good" and "entertaining" that you don't happen too.

 

I don't care if you find them entertaining, but there is no way you can call them 'good'.

 

I've been a fan of Hulk Hogan since 1985, poor workrate be damned. Whatever causes the unexplainable allure I have when this man is on my TV Screen I cannot say. (Was that repetitive?) But whatever it is I'm totally digging the McMahon/Hogan storyline.

 

Ok, I'm a Hogan mark too... This doesn't explain how this angle is good. If anyone other than Hogan were in this angle, and it was executed the exact same way, would you find it bad?

 

It has a nod to the past with the not so mysterious masked man "plot" twist. (See Red River Jack, The Machines, Mr.R, Both Yellow Dogs, etc)

 

It's a nod to the Blue Blazer.

 

Its also has encompassed several of my "heros" from the past (Piper/Mean Gene/Snuka)

 

But how does that make it good? They have Rikishi want revenge on Piper after 20 years - why didn't he attack Piper before that? The whole Mr. American/Hogan contract dispute is completely irrational and doesn't follow the rules set up in the WWE's own universe. It's not "smart" in any way.

 

and can potentially make a star out of whatever young guns get involved. (O'Haire and who knows who else might be used) The potential is there if they want to use it.

 

What is the WWE's track record in making New Stars? 1 in 100? 1 in 1000? Unfounded Optimism. Has the relationship between Piper and O'haire even established? "Oooh, they're both Evil, they must be in cahoots!" - why was O'haire a face a few months ago and now all-of-a-sudden is a heel? They could have set up the Piper/O'haire relationship but they didn't. O'haire is just a lackey.

 

Thus maybe, just maybe the storyline will help the company out in the long run, since it hasn't boosted business in the short term. (The blame for WMania's buyrate fall can be deferred to many things not just Hogan/McMahon, even if that was one factor)

 

How in god's name will this storyline HELP? On Smackdown this storyline takes up *7* segments. It only needs one or two. Those other *5* could be used pushing the much more exciting cruiserweight division, or developing a new challenger for Brock, or character enhancement.

 

So I hope that clears up why I have the (apparently unique) opinion that this particular storyline is "good" and "entertaining".

 

It hasn't cleared up why you think it's good. It's good cause it has the potential to create new stars? Not when it's the Old Man Show. Not when it's taking up half the show that prevents other, younger, better wrestlers from getting over. It features legends? How does focusing on the past really ever help the future? Old Guys can't work in the ring, they don't work house shows, they don't actually *do* anything beneficial to the company other than entertain you.

 

And just cause the masses here don't enjoy it, doesn't make it a "poor" fued. (Here it comes) Remember the masses were the ones shouting "Crucify HIM!" to Pontius Pilate.

 

No, what makes it a poor feud is the fact that they take up too much time, they feature two performers who do not work house shows, they are a rip-off of old angles, they don't really lead to any good matches, they prevent the advancement of other storylines and wrestlers to get over.

 

Your only reasons for it being 'good' is because they feature 'legends' and 'has the potential to advance new talent' - which, given the WWE's track record, isn't a reasonable assumption to make.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

RRR, why don't you ever use quote tags in your post instead of just making your replies in bold? It's pretty much the same amount of work...

 

Aren't you the same guy who wants this forum to have more variety in it?

[Guest Spaceman Spiff]

B - 1 letter

QUOTE - 5 letters

 

Thus, using the bold tag takes 80% less work.

[Guest Heel In Peril]

What would you like me to say? Your really hung up over the fact that I, in my heart of hearts find certain storylines "good" and "entertaining" that you don't happen too.

 

I don't care if you find them entertaining, but there is no way you can call them 'good'.

 

I've been a fan of Hulk Hogan since 1985, poor workrate be damned. Whatever causes the unexplainable allure I have when this man is on my TV Screen I cannot say. (Was that repetitive?) But whatever it is I'm totally digging the McMahon/Hogan storyline.

 

Ok, I'm a Hogan mark too... This doesn't explain how this angle is good.  If anyone other than Hogan were in this angle, and it was executed the exact same way, would you find it bad?

 

It has a nod to the past with the not so mysterious masked man "plot" twist. (See Red River Jack, The Machines, Mr.R, Both Yellow Dogs, etc)

 

It's a nod to the Blue Blazer.

 

Its also has encompassed several of my "heros" from the past (Piper/Mean Gene/Snuka)

 

But how does that make it good?  They have Rikishi want revenge on Piper after 20 years - why didn't he attack Piper before that?  The whole Mr. American/Hogan contract dispute is completely irrational and doesn't follow the rules set up in the WWE's own universe.  It's not "smart" in any way.

 

and can potentially make a star out of whatever young guns get involved. (O'Haire and who knows who else might be used) The potential is there if they want to use it.

 

What is the WWE's track record in making New Stars?  1 in 100?  1 in 1000?  Unfounded Optimism.  Has the relationship between Piper and O'haire even established?  "Oooh, they're both Evil, they must be in cahoots!" - why was O'haire a face a few months ago and now all-of-a-sudden is a heel?  They could have set up the Piper/O'haire relationship but they didn't.  O'haire is just a lackey.

 

Thus maybe, just maybe the storyline will help the company out in the long run, since it hasn't boosted business in the short term. (The blame for WMania's buyrate fall can be deferred to many things not just Hogan/McMahon, even if that was one factor)

 

How in god's name will this storyline HELP?  On Smackdown this storyline takes up *7* segments.  It only needs one or two.  Those other *5* could be used pushing the much more exciting cruiserweight division, or developing a new challenger for Brock, or character enhancement.

 

So I hope that clears up why I have the (apparently unique) opinion that this particular storyline is "good" and "entertaining".

 

It hasn't cleared up why you think it's good.  It's good cause it has the potential to create new stars?  Not when it's the Old Man Show.  Not when it's taking up half the show that prevents other, younger, better wrestlers from getting over.  It features legends?  How does focusing on the past really ever help the future?  Old Guys can't work in the ring, they don't work house shows, they don't actually *do* anything beneficial to the company other than entertain you.

 

And just cause the masses here don't enjoy it, doesn't make it a "poor" fued. (Here it comes) Remember the masses were the ones shouting "Crucify HIM!" to Pontius Pilate.

 

No, what makes it a poor feud is the fact that they take up too much time, they feature two performers who do not work house shows, they are a rip-off of old angles, they don't really lead to any good matches, they prevent the advancement of other storylines and wrestlers to get over.

 

Your only reasons for it being 'good' is because they feature 'legends' and 'has the potential to advance new talent' - which, given the WWE's track record, isn't a reasonable assumption to make. 

All great points! However, I must say:

 

But as I said before, who ever wipes out Hogan (if they choose to go in that direction) will have gotten a majior "rub". The potential for making somebody a "star" is there... But even I have doubts if the WWE will do it the right way...

So this mid card "comedy" angle could lead to somewhere much better.... COULD being the operative word.

 

Brock killed Hogan last August and it helped his credibility leading up to his star making match with the Rock.

 

Mr. America might still be unmasked as someone else (with Hogan making the save) and that person could in theory get Hogan's rub as well. Lots of theories.... no concrete yet.

 

I by no means am implying this is the best way to build new stars, I'm just explaining how I feel this angle could potentially help the WWE.

 

At least you're backing up your argument with examples now, tank_abbott. I do respect that. Nice thought about the tag feud between Hogan/New Guy and Piper/O'Haire. I also agree with Triple-R that P&O's relationship needs to be clarified in order to get the best out of the angle.

[Guest tank_abbott]

I've argued about this topic enough, I grant you victory, RRR. Now let's go discuss abortion or something....

[Guest Heel In Peril]

I've argued about this topic enough, I grant you victory, RRR. Now let's go discuss abortion or something....

FINISH HIM!!!

 

...

 

Friendship!

 

Friendship???