Limosine Ridin', Jet Plane Flyin', WOOOOOOOO!

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

Who in the hell is Jumbo? I'm guessing you're one of these "puro" people, whatever that means. I'm probably one of the more markiest people on the board because I don't really care about anything outside of the WWE and the old WCW.

 

I've only been watching for about 4 years now and I prefer North American Pro Wrestling (or sports entertainment or whatever the fuck you can to call it) to just entertain myself and becase Reality TV sucks. For my dollar, Flair is pretty entertaining.

 

 

What I am trying to say is, if you have points to back up your claims, bring them on, I'm sure the people here are interested. But if all you're going to do is rag about how Flair is overrated by everyone, then it's trolling.

Did you even read my last post or did you just say "Golly gee! I don't know who Jumbo is! Let's expose that instead of having a valid point!"

 

If you actually took the time to read what I said I brought up many valid points, Flair's "broomstick formula" and his lack of diversity in the body of work he's compiled.

 

I love how knowing a Japanese worker = instant puro smark.

 

And Flair IS overrated by anybody. I don't think even the biggest Flair marks will dispute that one.

[Guest HellSpawn]

Dont want to rain on your parade "Curry" but, are you sure you are in the right board? 'Cause Japan and stuff is a little down.

 

But OK, you disagree, OK, have fun and take care.

 

Just remember this is a WWE board, and we could / we like workrate, but we also can have fun when we got entertainment, not everyone love no-selling matches or flying guys.

 

Take it easy man.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

So if I compared Ric Flair to Chris Benoit people would be a lot happier? Just because certain people don't know who Jumbo Tsuruta doesn't automatically disqualify my opinion.

 

Fuckin rubes........

[Guest HellSpawn]

Man, take it easy.

 

Its nice, someone disagre with you and its a...

 

"Fuckin rube".

 

You came here and CHALLENGED US to make YOU like Flair.

 

And then YOU tried to make invalid ALL the thing we said.

 

Thats nice.

 

It looks like... you know what. I quit. Have fun and Love/Hate/Ignore/Bash Flair if you want, but dont spoil our fun, OK?

Edited May 21, 2003 by HellSpawn

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

Troll? Ease up, skippy. It's the truth. Somebody tell me about the vast repitoire Flair posesses. Honestly. Because every single match Flair is in I only see:

 

1) Chops

2) Whoooos!

3) Strutting

4) Figure four

5) Headlock and punch

6) Backdrop

7) Flair flip

8) Bodyslam off the top rope.

 

It's not like a match where a guy hits GOOD signature moves, Flairs repitition has been going on for a long, long time but people will still (in the words of Homer Simpson) "kiss his BUTT and call it ice cream." I've seen Hart, Benoit and others do great carry-jobs in their respective careers and they showed far much more diversity while doing it then Flair ever has.

 

Compare the careers of Jumbo and Ric Flair. Compare their ***** matches. Look who made the effort to do something different in each match. Look who didn't.

You also forgot the snap suplex and the hesitation suplex he used to use and pulled out Monday night.

 

You also were saying that Flair didn't have the amount of moves as this Jumbo guy, but you were wanting someone to tell you why Flair is so great. That has nothing to do with what moves he uses. Flair is great for several reasons, most have already been said. But his lack of moves was never a problem.

[Guest EternallyLazy]

Curry, if Flair isn't as great and really isn't that big of a deal... never has been... then why do so many wrestlers fucking WORSHIP the guy? Both in America and Japan? If WRESTLERS worship the ground he walks on, shouldn't that tell you something?

[Guest ViciousFish]

Curry, if Flair isn't as great and really isn't that big of a deal... never has been... then why do so many wrestlers fucking WORSHIP the guy? Both in America and Japan? If WRESTLERS worship the ground he walks on, shouldn't that tell you something?

It's really hard to argue with a point like that. Go EternallyLazy!!

[Guest bravesfan]

Troll? Ease up, skippy. It's the truth. Somebody tell me about the vast repitoire Flair posesses. Honestly. Because every single match Flair is in I only see:

 

1) Chops

2) Whoooos!

3) Strutting

4) Figure four

5) Headlock and punch

6) Backdrop

7) Flair flip

8) Bodyslam off the top rope.

At least you admit it's his moveset that you're pissed about.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Just because certain people don't know who Jumbo Tsuruta doesn't automatically disqualify my opinion.

Well, you're in the WWE forum (which seems to include the feds it's bought up over the years by extention), and AFAIK Jumbo Tsuruta has never had a contract with those companies. So pardon me if I don't know who the guy is.

 

So if I compared Ric Flair to Chris Benoit people would be a lot happier?

 

Well, you are the person who decided to play the Hardcorer-Than-Thou game and the rest of us who can't keep up with your OMG KICKIN RAD knowledge of wrestling just shouldn't participate in this discussion, I guess.

 

Fuckin rubes........

 

[Guest MillenniumMan831]

Flair brought the best of both worlds into wrestling.

 

He was always very passionate for whatever angle he was in. He brought a sence of legitimatecy to what he was doing (interview, match, ect.).

 

However, he was also one of the greatest entertainers in wrestling. He could make you hate him one sec, and laugh the next by telling some inaginary fat boy "to sit down and shut up!!!" He went over the edge more often than not and that only helps the viewer think,

 

"Man, Flair is pissed off! Flair/Sting should be awesome . . . What is he doing?!? What the hell is he dropping elbows on the mat?!?"

[Guest LatinoHeat]

The Ric Flair Annual Essay Contest...

 

Huh?

[Guest EternallyLazy]

Curry, if Flair isn't as great and really isn't that big of a deal... never has been... then why do so many wrestlers fucking WORSHIP the guy? Both in America and Japan? If WRESTLERS worship the ground he walks on, shouldn't that tell you something?

I still haven't gotten an answer to my above questions...

[Guest HellSpawn]

Curry, if Flair isn't as great and really isn't that big of a deal... never has been... then why do so many wrestlers fucking WORSHIP the guy? Both in America and Japan? If WRESTLERS worship the ground he walks on, shouldn't that tell you something?

I still haven't gotten an answer to my above questions...

Dont bother, he already said it all.

 

 

We are just a bunch of F'n Rubes !!!!

[Guest NoSelfWorth]

If this is a WWE folder, why are all the Flair fans constantly refering to his work in the NWA ? If Curry can't talk about Jumbo, who never wrestled in the WWF/E, then you shouldn't bring up any non-WWF/E work of Flair's.

 

And Flair was repetitive. Not to say he didn't have killer matches, because he did. But he did use the same set of moves over and over again.

[Guest Austin3164life]

NWA became WCW which was bought by the WWF. Right?

[Guest NoSelfWorth]

NWA became WCW which was bought by the WWF. Right?

NWA has never been WWF/E. And Vince never bought WCW, just it's trademarks, and 24 contracts.

[Guest HellSpawn]

If this is a WWE folder, why are all the Flair fans constantly refering to his work in the NWA ? If Curry can't talk about Jumbo, who never wrestled in the WWF/E, then you shouldn't bring up any non-WWF/E work of Flair's.

Maybe because we are not talking ONLY about NWA, but the whole package, NWA, WCW, WWF, WWE, and even his early stuff, you cant be so closed minded and just discuss the career of X Wrestler and forget about his past.

 

I mean, we are allowed to discuss about Angle's olympics or Lesnar's NCAA, arent we?

[Guest NoSelfWorth]

If this is a WWE folder, why are all the Flair fans constantly refering to his work in the NWA ? If Curry can't talk about Jumbo, who never wrestled in the WWF/E, then you shouldn't bring up any non-WWF/E work of Flair's.

You cant be so closed minded and just discuss the career of X Wrestler and forget about his past.

 

I agree. The point I was making was that while certain people were coming down hard on Curry for talking about a non-WWE wrestler, they then brought up non-WWE stuff Flair did. I just wanted some consistency.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

You've come to the wrong folder is you wanted consistency. The fact remains, Flair's work, however psychologically groundbreaking or influential (which I can't see at all in todays wrestlers) remains horribly repititive and boring. I cannot remember ever seeing a Flair match and saying "Wow! That's different" or "Hey, he's changed his stategic plans to fit the match."

[Guest ManKinnd]

When WAS the last time Flair hit a move off the top?

[Guest AndrewTS]

This Jumbo Tsuruta talk is nonsense. Flair is well known and respected worldwide, and he himself said that HHH was the best wrestler in the world, so there, it's a moot point. After all, he's a wrestler, so his opinion counts more than ours.

 

 

Seriously, though, Flair was a total package in his day, with the charisma, the right look, the ability to put on a hell of a show and wrestle.

 

Don't go by his WWE work or even his late WCW work. I've seen some of his NWA/early WCW matches, and he does diversify his moves in there. But these days he's mainly a showman.

 

Jumbo may beat him out. I can't say, though, because the only exposure I have to him are a match or two on a tape comp and playing him in the Fire Pro games.

 

However, if some one familiar with Jumbo's work and Flair's NWA stuff could give their input, maybe we'll get somewhere here.

[Guest TheGame2705]

Flair's your basic wrestler. As far as what makes him good, he brings emotion. He can play a heroic face or the evil dick in the same night and ball his eyes out and laugh hysterically in the same night.

 

You have to understand "Flair can carry a broomstick to 5 stars". He's not athletically having a classic with said broom. Rather he's just conveying all his emotion and making everyone lose focus of the actual wrestling and pay attention to the heroics/dastardliness.

[Guest The Grand Pubah of 1620]

It doesn't matter what promotion you are talking about. What country you are talking about. But what we are talking about is Flair in his prime. And LOTC, in his day he was inovative. 20 years later, no he isn't, he's doing the same things he did 20 years ago, but then he was the man that could...

 

carry a broomstick to 5 stars

 

..too bad you couldn't experience Flair back then. Then you'd know what we were talking about.

[Guest nl5xsk1]

Have Flair's matches gotten relatively routine lately? Yes. Have they always been this way? No. Even if we're not allowed to talk about his work in the NWA, or when he traveled to other smaller leagues like WCCW or PNW, if you watch his matches from his last tenure in the WWF and then compare them to his matches now, you see some similiarities and some of the same spots but they won't be the exact same matches as he does now.

 

And even though it might bring hell upon my shoulders, can I point out that a lot of Benoit's matches have been relatively predictable lately as well? (particularly if we can't use his matches in Japan, ECW, or WCW as comparison)

 

It's the state of the WWE right now, folks, whether we like it or not.

[Guest Nater]

And even though it might bring hell upon my shoulders, can I point out that a lot of Benoit's matches have been relatively predictable lately as well? (particularly if we can't use his matches in Japan, ECW, or WCW as comparison)

 

It's the state of the WWE right now, folks, whether we like it or not.

I think thats absolutely correct. The problem is that not much time is given to the wrestlers to throw out a great match for TV. We are faced with PPV matches that are somewhat stale unless the wrestler is given a chance to regularly work full matches. 13 full matches a year is what the wrestlers are scheduled with.. is that good or bad?

 

If you think Jumbo is better than Flair, okay. If you think Benoit is better than Jumbo, sure. It's all opinion. I tend to focus on who is doing the best right now

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

If this is a WWE folder, why are all the Flair fans constantly refering to his work in the NWA ? If Curry can't talk about Jumbo, who never wrestled in the WWF/E, then you shouldn't bring up any non-WWF/E work of Flair's.

I just said that by extent WWE encompasses all the feds it's bought over time.

 

But it doesn't matter, we're just all rubes.

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

Hey wizard, there's a dead horse laying there. Why don't you just beat it some more? You're the fucking rube simply for just not letting go. I said it. Get over it. Move on.

 

The term "***** match" gets thrown around WAY too often when referring to Flair. The closest thing I've seen to him being in what I'd call a ***** match is him vs Steamboat at WrestleWar 89, which I found to be a very underwhelming match and would probably only rate at ****1/2.

 

Flair's style and workrate itself were bested long ago by many other wrestlers. Benoit was doing better, faster, harder and more innovative stuff in 1993, two years after his debut. What was Flair doing? Same old same old.

 

The matches Flair put on, while emotionally involving and entertaining, wore out their welcome quite quickly IMO. Compare him vs Steamboat WrestleWar89 to matches that occurred only a few years later in Japan. Kobashi/Kikuchi vs Furnas/Kroffatt for the All Asia Tag Titles 92 is a match that every wrestling fan should go out of their way to see. Fast, innovative and the hottest fucking crowd in the history of pro wrestling. And it only occured 3 years after the "*****" match between Ricky and Ric yet managed to dwarf and overshadow the match in almost every way you can imagine.

Edited May 23, 2003 by Lord of The Curry

[Guest EternallyLazy]

Curry, if Flair isn't as great and really isn't that big of a deal... never has been... then why do so many wrestlers fucking WORSHIP the guy? Both in America and Japan? If WRESTLERS worship the ground he walks on, shouldn't that tell you something?

I still haven't gotten an answer to my above questions...

and I STILL have not gotten an answer lol

Edited May 23, 2003 by EternallyLazy

[Guest Lord of The Curry]

What was your question?

[Guest EternallyLazy]

What was your question?

*ahem*

 

Curry, if Flair isn't as great and really isn't that big of a deal... never has been... then why do so many wrestlers* fucking WORSHIP the guy?

 

Forgive my sarcasm, but I believe that is a question

 

 

 

*wrestlers both in America and Japan