Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 20, 2003 The storylines make sense? Wasn't HBK the same guy who laid down for HHH 6 years ago? Why is Jericho happy he lost the battle royale? Why is Nash the #1 contender his win/loss record is in the single digits? Austin fires Sean Morely but hires Val Venis? After the 15th loss to the Dudley boys, only now does Rico decide they suck? The 'Jericho was behind it'? Shit, it didn't work when it was HHH what makes them think it'll work now? Le Resistance? It didn't work when it was the unamericans what makes them think it'll work now? Especially with two shitty wrestlers. Tell me when these storylines actually start to make sense and then I'll "face it". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted May 20, 2003 The storylines make sense? Wasn't HBK the same guy who laid down for HHH 6 years ago? Why is Jericho happy he lost the battle royale? Why is Nash the #1 contender his win/loss record is in the single digits? Austin fires Sean Morely but hires Val Venis? After the 15th loss to the Dudley boys, only now does Rico decide they suck? The 'Jericho was behind it'? Shit, it didn't work when it was HHH what makes them think it'll work now? Le Resistance? It didn't work when it was the unamericans what makes them think it'll work now? Especially with two shitty wrestlers. Tell me when these storylines actually start to make sense and then I'll "face it". If it happened more than 8 months ago, it did not happen. HHH beat Flair for the belt, yet we get this DREAM MATCH. Jericho is happy that Christian is evolving into a evil heel. Nash is the #1 contender because he got cheated at the PPV Chief Val was on tv? Rico is co-dependent Jericho does have a undefeated record against Goldberg remember. Now for what works: Jericho Hi-Light Reel, classic interview in the ring material to kickstart feuds Austin as GM is in every segment almost and tries not to lose his temper "don't think to hard" "One step at a time" "don't ask for so much" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 20, 2003 Jericho is happy that Christian is evolving into a evil heel. ...And is not angry at the fact that he doesn't have the IC title. Why was he even in the match anyways? What does that do for the title? Nash is the #1 contender because he got cheated at the PPV Booker got cheated on at the PPV (Wm) - he just magically gets forgotten about? How many matches has Nash had anyways? 5? Tops? Ditto with HBK. Does the term #1 contender just mean "guy who gets screwed by HHH"? Then why isn't Steph #1 contender? I can't see why they don't have an actual #1 contender, still have the Nash/HHH feud, with the #1 contender waiting patiently for his shot. Then someone can challenge the #1 contender for the shot at the champion - the #1 contender wins it, talks about HHH ducking him - two natural feuds right there. It just happens to rip off the current Tito Ortiz/Chuck Liddell situation. Chief Val was on tv? He was at Judgement Day - or does the "if it happened 3 days ago it doesn't count" rule come into effect here? Rico is co-dependent So why is he leaving them? It would be cool to have Rico return next week (or in 2 weeks) as a total badass with mean lookin stubble, torn leather jacket, a cigar, etc. and try to act like he wasn't a big flaming pansy just a few weeks ago... "My name is Ric and I make the ladies say "O" and I'm the baddest man in the universe and a Rogue Professional Wrestler... don't fuck wit me, or I'll cut you... Jericho does have a undefeated record against Goldberg remember. So why would that make Jericho want to kill Goldberg? Now for what works: Jericho Hi-Light Reel, classic interview in the ring material to kickstart feuds Austin as GM is in every segment almost and tries not to lose his temper So "What works" is the most talented guy on the roster getting reduced to being an interviewer and a non-ring performer, non-house show and PPV worker, getting the most on-screen time? "don't think to hard" "One step at a time" "don't ask for so much" I can't believe I forgot those. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted May 20, 2003 *ignores rest of thread* *instead asks everyone to think about how Chris Benoit has been used since his standing ovation at the Rumble* No Way Out: 5 man tag to build a match that wasn't his. WrestleMania: 3 team tag not given enough time to matter Backlash: Not on show. Judgment Day: sub 4 minute 6 man tag to open show. Note to WWE wrestlers: DON'T GET OVER. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted May 20, 2003 Jericho see Christian as an equal. Jericho was in the match to make Christian look good. This gives the IC title a new heel champion, not just the same old crap that has been going on forever. Change is good. Nash is Kliq need I say more + he is 7 foot Bawh Gawd. I did not see the PPV, so I guess that Austin rehired Val to piss off Bishoff. Rico should develop some kind of character in the coming weeks. Maybe his last name is Logan? Jericho hate Goldberg for what happened in WCW. Grudges will never be forgotten. Austin and Jericho gets the audience excited, what else do you want? I would rather see them than Coach or Terri screwing up interview segments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Army Eye Report post Posted May 20, 2003 I have a problem with people complaining about wrestling. I agree the sport has it's flaws, but come on here!!! I understand what you are saying about the PPV opener being short but at least Benoit's not doing the job for the taskmaster or feuding with Big Show. Also yes WCW DID bury him worse. When did WCW bury him worse? Couldn't have been the feud with Taskmaster. I mean.. feuding with Kevni Sullivan who was the booker.. you're guaranteed TV time every week, high spot on the card, etc. And Benoit won the feud. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 20, 2003 Poor Benoit. That's what you get for being a hard worker and great wrestler. You gotta be like Kevin Nash and Big Show... Work hard at being tall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted May 20, 2003 Poor Beniot, he is too good for his own good. Maybe he should focus on working the mic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted May 20, 2003 I have a problem with people complaining about wrestling. Should we just accept everything WWE puts out and not think: Hey- this kind of sucks. Boo? Not complaining leads to things not changing. That's not a good thing. I understand what you are saying about the PPV opener being short but at least Benoit's not doing the job for the taskmaster or feuding with Big Show. Nope- He's just jobbing to the Big Show so Big Show can be made to look like Brock's bitch. You'd rather have Benoit lose in 4 minute openers rather then have a high profile feud with Kevin Sullivan. Also yes WCW DID bury him worse. Benoit never had a 4 minute match on a WCW PPV. Concentrate on the positive, the WWE is definately still watchable and so are other great fed's like NWA TNA, ROH, etc........ Judgment Day was watchable? Backlash was watchable? Smackdown when Mr. America is on is watchable? HHH v. Nash was watchable? The 15 minute brawl they had was watchable? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted May 20, 2003 Poor Benoit. That's what you get for being a hard worker and great wrestler. You gotta be like Kevin Nash and Big Show... Work hard at being tall. Benoit needs to learn how to make friends who like to use needles or shampoo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 20, 2003 Jericho see Christian as an equal. Jericho was in the match to make Christian look good. This gives the IC title a new heel champion, not just the same old crap that has been going on forever. Change is good. Actually, a solid face title run would be a change of pace. A heel cheating to win the IC title in a meaningless match has been going on for a long while. I did not see the PPV, so I guess that Austin rehired Val to piss off Bishoff. You just wanted to say "piss off Bischoff" didn't you? Rico should develop some kind of character in the coming weeks. Maybe his last name is Logan? *taps nose* Jericho hate Goldberg for what happened in WCW. Grudges will never be forgotten. What happened in WCW? Why is this only happening now? Austin and Jericho gets the audience excited, what else do you want? I would rather see them than Coach or Terri screwing up interview segments. Classic "it could be worse". What else do I want? I want wrestling. I'm silly like that, though. Anything can get the crowd excited, really. Sable could take off her top, the crowd gets excited. Jeff Hardy jumps off a ladder, the crowd gets excited. Someone says a 'bad word', the crowd gets excited. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 20, 2003 Not to mention that the match between Benoit and Sullivan at GAB96 had the fans on their feet... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted May 20, 2003 Heel champions is what makes a good title reign. Besides most of the contenders are tops faces: Booker T, RVD, Hurricane, Goldust. Possible heels: Jericho, Rico, Stevie Richards, Val Venis. In WCW Jericho would claim false victories over Goldberg by countouts during interviews and other crazy hijinks. "WWE makes movies" Austin & Jericho are the top performers now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Report post Posted May 20, 2003 Why do heels make better champions? Are we to ignore the two biggest drawing champions in the history of the company were Hogan and Austin...both FACES. Someone is buying HHH's drivel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted May 20, 2003 Why do heels make better champions? Are we to ignore the two biggest drawing champions in the history of the company were Hogan and Austin...both FACES. Someone is buying HHH's drivel I personally feel that a heel makes a better champ, even though there are obvious exceptions for certain guys, because to me it's much more fun seeing the face hund down said heel, in order to FINALLY overtake him. I've always prefered angles where a heel is the champion, and the face is trying to finally climb the mountain. Take most of Flair's reigns and his various opponents, the heel Hogan in WCW and various contenders like Sting/Luger/etc..., take even Hogan's FIRST title win against The Iron Shiek, and the list goes on and on. Hell, just look at Mankind's first title win. This of course just once again goes to personal perference, and I just prefer to see the face fight for the title. Hell, at times, a face champion just doesn't feel right. Much like I feel Sting was a much better challenger, than champion, etc... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 20, 2003 The WWE's problem is that all they do is the chase. When the face wins the title they have no idea what to do with him (see Lesnar, Brock, see Stratus, Trish) so they either get the title right off them (trish) or just place the champ in limbo (Brock). Food for thought - Brock Lesnar is the longest reigning face champ in a very long while. HBK held it for a month. Rock held it for a month. HHH held it for a month. Angle held it for a month. Rock held it for a month. The IC title holder should have been made out to be STRONG - heel or face. With a battle royale deciding the winner, it was already created in a questionable way. Then the winner actually got eliminated, cheated, and won. Then a loser of that match was happy that he lost. The IC champ lost the first match he was in since winning the title and now is on the run. Why would anyone want this title? ------------- If WCW issues carry over in the WWE - then why isn't Steiner taking shots at Booker T? There is no consistency here. It doesn't make sense. The WWE makes bad movies. They write their shows in a sitcom format. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Sakura Report post Posted May 20, 2003 Since when is a show being "watchable" a good thing? Isn't the point of a show to be entertaining...not just "watchable"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted May 20, 2003 WWE Raw a show about nothing. Booker T could not be champion because he is "sick" but he was a team playa and lost in a screw job making Christian a "credible" heel. Why would anybody want the IC title, simple answer THEY HAVE NO CHANCE AT BECOMING WORLD CHAMP nobody can defeat HHH. Flair was heel champ nWo were heel champs Its all about the chase Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Austin3164life Report post Posted May 20, 2003 Austin was in true form chasing after the World Title, especially before WM 14 and 17. But the exception to that is he was an awesome heel World Champion from WM 17 to Vengeance (not counting the two week hotshot). It's not that a heel champ is better, but I think a heel champ with a long reign is easier to do (the problem is that Triple H isn't a true heel, he sucks, and they can't book ANYONE talented to look strong against him besides his kliq orgy-mates). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 21, 2003 It can't be all about the chase though. You can't keep having heel champions for 3 months, then a face champ for 1 month, then a heel champ for 3 months, then a face champ for 1 month... There *needs* to be one big huge fucking face run and the WWE has no idea how to do it. WWE RAW *is* a show about nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted May 21, 2003 RVD or Booker T could of had a face title run but it never happened. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lord of The Curry Report post Posted May 21, 2003 Even if RVD or Booker were given title runs, as Rudo pointed out, the WWE has no idea how to book their face champions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Downhome Report post Posted May 21, 2003 Even if RVD or Booker were given title runs, as Rudo pointed out, the WWE has no idea how to book their face champions. I think they are doing a pretty good job with Brock Lesnar so far. It is a bit harder to book faces as great long term champs. That is unless of course, the guy who is the champion is just that great at playing the part, aka Hogan, Bret, etc... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Austin3164life Report post Posted May 21, 2003 Another big problem in booking a World Champion these days is that the WWE is trying to model the new blood around the old blood (i.e. "Who is the next Bret Hart? Next Austin? Next HBK?). Sure, those are good topics for smarks and fans, but the WWE should concentrate on what makes the new stars click, rather than trying to recreate superstars with a modern twist. Let Brock Lesnar be BROCK LESNAR. Not Goldberg, Triple H, or whatever established star from a previous era. Each boom that the WWE experienced came when the McMahon family just took a calculated risk and gave the ball to the workers. If they want to give the world heavyweight championship to Booker T, they could've had him win at Wrestlemania. But let Booker T be himself, and not try and model his persona or title run around a previous superstar of the past. This problem exists in most other sports as well. Take the NBA for example. The media is SO FIXATED on looking for the next Michael Jordan (no, it is NOT Kobe) that they're ignoring the fact that the NBA is slowly returning back to the age of the forward/center (Most of the best players are 7 foot forwards/centers: Shaq, Duncan, Dirk, Garnett, Webber). Like the WWE, the NBA should focus on who really is lighting the NBA up, rather than wanting to think that this person is the next______. Once the WWE stops looking to the past and looks into the future (with such a DEEP talent roster), then they'll be fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 21, 2003 How exactly have they done a good job with Brock thus far? Was it in the captivating John Cena feud or the Awe inspiring Big Show saga? They are just waiting until Angle comes back... If they had a clue then they could have made an Angle that would have lasted 2 PPVs rather than split em up and give em to two pointless challengers. You're right though, it *is* hard to book long-term face champions but it is *necessary*. But, of course, the WWE can't do anything hard - oh no - that would require effort... Can't give effort, nope... Can't give effort. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest LJSexay Report post Posted May 21, 2003 Brock's run has been pretty solid, IMO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted May 21, 2003 Ok, by "solid" you mean... what? The fact that he has held it for 2 ppvs... I know, it's astonishing, it's a 2 year record... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted May 21, 2003 Even if RVD or Booker were given title runs, as Rudo pointed out, the WWE has no idea how to book their face champions. I think they are doing a pretty good job with Brock Lesnar so far. It is a bit harder to book faces as great long term champs. That is unless of course, the guy who is the champion is just that great at playing the part, aka Hogan, Bret, etc... If they would build up Brock's challengers then maybe but they're just like: Okay- So we're gonna have Nunzio face Brock. But how do we make fans think he has a chance? Put him over Benoit? Sounds good Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lord of The Curry Report post Posted May 21, 2003 Yes, the wrestling machine Chris Benoit who has jobbed to Cena, Palumbo and Big Show in the past month. He's the one! There isn't really anybody for Brock right now that the fans would buy as a real threat except for......oh.....oh no. Oh God no. Brock vs Mr.America is SO going down tonight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted May 21, 2003 Spoiler (Highlight to Read): It didn't go down tonight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
