Ric Flair: A Double Question

[Guest Cover of Darkness]

A one week reign would water down an already very fragile title. It wouldn't do anyone any good. People believed that Hurricane could have beaten HHH - give him the title. Yeah, give him the title.

If anything, a reign from Ric Flair would do wonders for the title, even if it was only a week.

 

Why? It's Ric F'n Flair.

[TheOriginalOrangeGoblin 0]

BTW the overrun of a Raw scored a 4.4 so

 

Flair = Ratings!

 

[Guest Goodear]

Why? It's Ric F'n Flair.

Why not? Because he's 90 years old.

[Guest Cover of Darkness]

Why? It's Ric F'n Flair.

Why not? Because he's 90 years old.

Come on, any wrestling fan with history doesn't care. Plus, if he's only champ a week or two, he'll boost ratings without interfering in the grand scheme of things.

 

Plus, I saw some dude OLDER then him fight Mutoh and it took Mutoh like 5 Shining Wizards and a Moonsault to put him down.

[Guest JAxlMorrison]

I think without a doubt that HBK-Flair would've been a hell of a lot better then HHH-Nash. At least those two know how to build up heat, not to mention the fact that they have so much more talent as workers. Flair proved once again this week that he can still bring it when he wants to.

 

I said it in the Raw thread, if I was booking, I would've given the belt to Flair for a week via Nash's interference. Then, the following week I would have had HHH destroy Flair maybe in a Cage, bloody him up terribly, basically beat him down so badly that he has to be taken out by ambulance. That way you get some more heat onto the Nash-HHH feud since Nash costs him the title, then HHH becomes a better heel by mericilessly destroying a legend the week after.

[Guest Austin3164life]

I said it in the Raw thread, if I was booking, I would've given the belt to Flair for a week via Nash's interference. Then, the following week I would have had HHH destroy Flair maybe in a Cage, bloody him up terribly, basically beat him down so badly that he has to be taken out by ambulance. That way you get some more heat onto the Nash-HHH feud since Nash costs him the title, then HHH becomes a better heel by mericilessly destroying a legend the week after.

 

In the process, Flair becomes filler-boy to the Kliq Lovefest.

[Guest JAxlMorrison]

I said it in the Raw thread, if I was booking, I would've given the belt to Flair for a week via Nash's interference. Then, the following week I would have had HHH destroy Flair maybe in a Cage, bloody him up terribly, basically beat him down so badly that he has to be taken out by ambulance. That way you get some more heat onto the Nash-HHH feud since Nash costs him the title, then HHH becomes a better heel by mericilessly destroying a legend the week after.

 

In the process, Flair becomes filler-boy to the Kliq Lovefest.

Well if I was the booker I would be trying like hell to save this feud, and that would seem to be a logical way of doing it. Besides, I don't think anyone could make Flair a "filler boy" if they tried. Case in point, WCW. The pop he would have gotten would've made for an emotional end to Raw and would've had people tuning in next week, and maybe even to Heat.

[chaosrage 0]

Zah?  Jeff Hardy winning the IC title kept people watching?  Are you sure?  I just saw it as them pointlessly elevating a wrestler who just got swatted away like a bug the next week.  And the Jericho/Benoit win was totally upstaged by the Quad pull and HHH's subsequent "workin through the pain".  No one benefitted from that except HHH.

 

Any time the fans see someone they like win, I think naturally they're going to stick around more than when someone they hate leaves on top every single week. As for Jericho/Benoit, well they dominated most of that match and not only won totally clean, but they also took out HHH. For about a month, they WERE on top. They won a 30 minute TLC, got to squash Big Show and Rhyno, made Austin and Vince's lives hell, and came inches from taking the world title.

 

Rock won it at a PPV, held it for a month, HHH beat him, and then Rock took it off HHH a month after that and HHH never held it since his return in 02.  Flair winning the title of one week and losing it the next right back to HHH would just be a tiny bump in the road.

 

You're right, it would just be a bump, like Jeff was a bump. I'm not saying it would be the greatest thing ever to have Flair win or it would change the whole company around or whatever, just something that would be nice to see with no real reason not to do it.

 

C'mon, no one believed TAKA would win the title just like they didn't believe that Hurricane would - that was all in the booking of the match.  Jericho and Booker, on the other hand, the crowd believed that because of the respective storylines and the fact that both Jericho and Booker *should* have won the titles.

 

For a few minutes, a lot of people thought Taka could win. The crowd was gasping after the close falls, and most on the net said that he was coming so close it looked like they might give it to him. You didn't get that for Hurricane. Or Booker. The crowd was quiet for everything they did up until the end. This board was quiet because it was obvious he was losing. In October when RVD was going for it, there was doubt, but there was still some hope. Fans get a little more apathetic every time it happens.

 

I don't think they should give away title matches on free TV w/o a great deal of hype.  The original idea of having title matches on TV was to lure away watchers from Nitro/Raw.  No Nitro. Title matches should be saved for PPVs so people will pay to see the title changes.  If you want a lot of people to watch a certain TV 'event' where you want to pull off a bunch of important angles, then you hype up a title match there as well.  If HBK's one month title reign didn't break up the monotony of HHH's show, then I doubt a one week flair win would either

 

As long as you save the matches that people really want to see for the PPV, there's nothing wrong with giving title matches on free TV. Just because there's no Nitro doesn't mean they should put on less quality. People can still leave if the shows are boring and predictable. One or two title changes a year on free TV is okay, enough to let people know that it can happen. And I think HBK did break up the motonony for a little while, but that was a long time ago. HHH has been through a lot of wrestlers since then.

 

That's the thing.  HHH would *still* take it lightly because he'd still think that Flair was his buddy and would lie down for him.  All the while you'd have Flair question whether or not he'd do it - and since HHH is so into himself he wouldn't notice.  Hell, you could have him (HHH) help Flair "train" for the match in jest. to make it look like they are going to fool everyone - and it backfires on him.

 

Who in the hell would order a PPV when the challenger isn't even sure if he'll fight or not? Besides, you have to remember that Flair is still a heel. He needs something to make the people get behind him. It's much better the way they did it, with Ric going back to HHH and telling him to stop whining, because he wrestled thousands of times hurt. That he's not laying down for anybody anymore, and to be at his best because he's coming for him.

 

Oh that's no different than McMahon trying to do the Katie Vick angle.  That's crash tv.  The WWE doesn't need that.  They need intriguing storylines that hook viewers rather than constant surprises.

 

Except this is something the fans actually wanted to see, and it made sense. That's what I'm talking about. They built up an intriguing storyline from scratch in one night, and had the opportunity to deliver something even better but they didn't. One night there's nothing, and the next Ric is going for the title. If he would have won it, and had the end with all the wrestlers showing him respect on TV, and let's say you're a huge Flair fan, and you missed that show, you're going to feel like an asshole when you hear what happened. Even if the writing got better, people would still miss some shows and just watch the recaps. Instead, it needs to feel like every show could possibly be something awesome and you'll really miss out if you don't watch. Of course that doesn't mean it has to be booked like Russo, but a few surprising shows every now and then is good.

[Guest nl5xsk1]

I could see a scenario where Flair won the title from HHH, and the two seem to have issues with each other. Because Austin already told Nash he was the #1 contender, the match at the PPV becomes a three-way, with everyone thinking that Flair and HHH aren't getting along. But at the PPV, we find out it's all a big swerve~! and it becomes an unofficial handicap match. Ending in one of two ways:

 

1) either the power of Nash is too strong, and he overcomes the odds to win the belt (pinning Flair, of course, b/c no way HHH does the job if he can avoid it)

2) HHH walks away with the belt, pinning Nash after a (way too long) 2-on-1 handicap beatdown.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Any time the fans see someone they like win, I think naturally they're going to stick around more than when someone they hate leaves on top every single week.

 

Ok, so why did RAW's ratings drop after Jeff Hardy won the IC title? I have no problem with the ~surprise win~, or a change in pace, I just usually want it to be built up and make sense and last a while...

 

As for Jericho/Benoit, well they dominated most of that match and not only won totally clean, but they also took out HHH. For about a month, they WERE on top. They won a 30 minute TLC, got to squash Big Show and Rhyno, made Austin and Vince's lives hell, and came inches from taking the world title.

 

The strength of Jericho/Benoits push didn't come from the tag title win, it came from the fact that Benoit is God and Jericho has Benoit. If I say "Jericho/Benoit vs. Austin/HHH" you say "Quad tear"

 

You're right, it would just be a bump, like Jeff was a bump. I'm not saying it would be the greatest thing ever to have Flair win or it would change the whole company around or whatever, just something that would be nice to see with no real reason not to do it.

 

The reason not to do it is because it would dilute the title. The title is already weak as it is, the only thing that would give it strength would be a high profile, well built, title win. Not a week long fling with the nature boy. There are ways to freshen things up - that is not one of them.

 

For a few minutes, a lot of people thought Taka could win. The crowd was gasping after the close falls, and most on the net said that he was coming so close it looked like they might give it to him. You didn't get that for Hurricane. Or Booker. The crowd was quiet for everything they did up until the end. This board was quiet because it was obvious he was losing.

 

It was still obvious that Taka would lose, afterall, he's TAKA - it wasn't obvious that he would come close to winning or getting that much time in the ring with the champ, afterall, he's TAKA. I think everyone figured Booker would win because of the storyline they used specifically said "booker has to win".

 

In October when RVD was going for it, there was doubt, but there was still some hope. Fans get a little more apathetic every time it happens.

 

Oh I agree. I just don't agree with this notion that a week-long Flair win would do anything to break it. The title win should mean something more than a quick pop - all a Flair win does is dilute the title and the win over HHH.

 

As long as you save the matches that people really want to see for the PPV, there's nothing wrong with giving title matches on free TV.

 

But shouldn't *all* title matches be matches people want to see?

 

Just because there's no Nitro doesn't mean they should put on less quality.

 

I never said that RAW should cut down on the quality - I just said you save the really important stuff for PPV where you can get people to pay or for a specific tv show where multiple angles unfold. I am all for the raising of quality of Raw and Smackdown.

 

People can still leave if the shows are boring and predictable. One or two title changes a year on free TV is okay, enough to let people know that it can happen.

 

One title change a year on TV is fine, but really, there shouldn't be more than 3 title changes a year IMO for the world title. Just because a show doesn't have a world title change doesn't mean that it's "boring". There are other ways to make the show exciting than having a new champion.

 

And I think HBK did break up the motonony for a little while, but that was a long time ago. HHH has been through a lot of wrestlers since then.

 

Oh goodness no. It was still the HHH show, it was still the same show it had been for month - if not years. Armageddon got the lowest buyrate in a long time for a reason. Plus the HBK title win buried Jericho, Kane, and RVD. They can't get the job done but a guy like HBK can?

 

Who in the hell would order a PPV when the challenger isn't even sure if he'll fight or not?

 

Why would they stay around for the main event if he isn't sure? You know he will fight and you want to see how it will turn out. This way you get people to pay for it. THAT is a "change of pace" from the regular PPV title match.

 

Besides, you have to remember that Flair is still a heel. He needs something to make the people get behind him.

 

Flair is still a heel? Really? When does he get boo'd? The whole point of him questioning himself is that part of him is trying to get away from being HHH's lapdog and becoming the Legend that he once was. Should he take the opportunity or not? Can he or Can't he still do it? He's an underdog.

 

It's much better the way they did it, with Ric going back to HHH and telling him to stop whining, because he wrestled thousands of times hurt. That he's not laying down for anybody anymore, and to be at his best because he's coming for him.

 

Yes, and in the end nothing happens... No added ratings, no buyrates, no added meaning to the belt, just a pop from the fans... oh, and heat on HHH... Which is the same thing that has been happening for the past 10 months.

 

Except this is something the fans actually wanted to see, and it made sense. That's what I'm talking about.

 

How does it make sense? Ric Flair all-of-a-sudden wants to be the champ again? There were NO signs of Flair turning against HHH before that RAW. Flair seemed perfectly happy with being HHH's lap dog.

 

They built up an intriguing storyline from scratch in one night, and had the opportunity to deliver something even better but they didn't.

 

That's right, they did it from scratch in one night... see anything wrong with that? If it was such an intriguing storyline they should have stretched it for a month and built it up for a PPV. You know, actually have it make sense.

 

One night there's nothing, and the next Ric is going for the title. If he would have won it, and had the end with all the wrestlers showing him respect on TV, and let's say you're a huge Flair fan, and you missed that show, you're going to feel like an asshole when you hear what happened.

 

Oh yeah, cause geez, Flair = ratings right? Where were those flair fans when he became GM? All the Flair title win says is "The Old Guy is better than the Young Guys."

 

Even if the writing got better, people would still miss some shows and just watch the recaps. Instead, it needs to feel like every show could possibly be something awesome and you'll really miss out if you don't watch.

 

That's McMahon thinking. That's why they keep bringing back all those crappy old stars. For things to get better ratings-wise they have to get better product-wise. What you are talking about is a very superficial attachment to the product. What happens when the WWE stops providing those week-after-week surprises? It's bound to happen. The product still sucks because people will see all these surprises had no foundation to them and they weren't long-lasting... they were meaningless. The incentive to watch shouldn't be "I might miss something BIG if I don't" it should be "Damn, this is a good show".

 

Of course that doesn't mean it has to be booked like Russo, but a few surprising shows every now and then is good.

 

And how is Flair taking the title and then losing it back to HHH good?