Huge, Huge Props to the WWE video package team

[Guest JHawk]

EDIT: Sorry, missed a full page. The point was made

[Guest wwF1587]

this is a little late but I just saw the video and WOW... you guys said it was great but DAMN man

[Guest Rob Edwards]

How many other wrestlers get teams named after them? Angle gets a pretty good shake from the bookers most of the time.

Show me a 6 month time period where Angle is a consistant ME threat.

November 2002 onwards, granted theres an injury break after 5 months but he's going to come back with a big push after not very long off so it's arguable whether that qualifies or not

He looked like SUCH A BADASS getting the shit kicked out of him by Brock every week.

 

Then theres August 2000 - February 2001

 

With the Honky reign.

In both cases he WAS pushed as a consistant ME threat

 

I didn't see that much wrong with the reign though, he was over throughout but creative didn't know what to do with him when it came to a close

 

and whats wrong with a Honky reign? the guy sold out some pretty big arenas

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

He wasn't pushed as a threat. Being at threat means people would actually take you seriously. What's wrong with a Honky reign is that Kurt Angle is not Honky, and the World Title is not the IC title... not to mention the fact that every heel champion with the exception of HHH seems to be the Honky-style champion.

[Guest Rob Edwards]

He wasn't pushed as a threat. Being at threat means people would actually take you seriously. What's wrong with a Honky reign is that Kurt Angle is not Honky, and the World Title is not the IC title... not to mention the fact that every heel champion with the exception of HHH seems to be the Honky-style champion.

but thats not the idea with Honky style champs, You make the heel cowardly but intelligent and when he keeps sneaking wins all the time fans keep buying tickets because they want to see the next person kick his ass and usually think he will

[Guest Choken One]

There are two types of heels...

 

HHHeels. The ones who flat out dominate. Hunter and Vader are the ONLY ones that come to mind...

 

every one else in history was in some form a Honkyheel.

[Guest Rob Edwards]

I'd add Sid and Taker to the list of non Honkyheels

[Guest Choken One]

Maybe...Sid had a hint of Honky in him...

 

Taker though? Sure...

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

Even Hogan in the nWo was a "honkyheel". He couldn't win any match against one of the top faces without having a half dozen guys storm the ring. Plus he was always running/hiding from Sting, Warrior, etc.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

The key word there is "cowardly".

[Guest Rob Edwards]

whats wrong with being cowardly as a heel? Surley it's a quality to boo

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

When everyone else is a cowardly heel?

 

When your ability goes beyond that of a cowardly heel?

 

If you should be booked strong and retain credibility?

[Guest Anglesault]

but thats not the idea with Honky style champs, You make the heel cowardly but intelligent and when he keeps sneaking wins all the time fans keep buying tickets because they want to see the next person kick his ass and usually think he will

 

Question: What did Honky do after he lost the title?

[Guest Rob Edwards]

Nothing for the simple reason that he was a pain in the ass backstage who made Hogan look manageable, had he been less of a problem I'm sure he'd have done better

 

I'm not advocating a comedy push for Angle now RRR, I totally agree it's time to move away from that, I just don't think there was anything wrong with Kurt's initial title reign

[Guest CanadianChris]

but thats not the idea with Honky style champs, You make the heel cowardly but intelligent and when he keeps sneaking wins all the time fans keep buying tickets because they want to see the next person kick his ass and usually think he will

 

Question: What did Honky do after he lost the title?

He somehow convinced Greg Valentine to dye his hair jet-black and sing horrible country songs with him.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

I'd add Brock Lesnar as a heel wasn't a Honkyheel either. I don't ever remember Brock trying to get out of a match. Paul kept trying to weasel out of matches with the likes of Hogan and Big Show and Brock would keep shouting at him to shut up and maintain his composure.

[Guest Choken One]

Which is how Lesnar became the UBER-FACE he is today...

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

The initial title run was bad for so many reasons - mainly because he was booked as a weak champion. Which is not only bad for Angle, but is bad for the title. Like I said, the only clean win I remember is against Essa Rios on heat. Dispite being under a "booked" format, credibility is integral in wrestling.

[Guest Rob Edwards]

I don't agree for the simple fact that Angle was still super over on the day his reign finished and he and Rock were able to draw some pretty amazing heat to their match (despite it being a forgone conclusion) They just had nowhere to go afterwards with him and had to settle on the despearion Benoit feud and shuffle him down to high mid card when they could well have kept him on top with the "snapped" angle he was doing

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

But that's the thing, he was a midcard gimmick character given a main event title. After the reign he went back to the mid-card cause he wasn't a strong enough character to stay up in the card (plus he wasn't dating a McMahon). The Rock interview was funny, but it didn't want me to a)see the Rock win or b)take Angle seriously.

[Guest Rob Edwards]

I thought they did have somewhere to go with it though and it COULD have been the perfect example of how to turn a comedy main eventer into a credible threat, people were really buying into the whole "Kurt's snapped" thing, with the extended anklelocks etc, ideally he could have done with going over say Taker or Tripps at Mania but then that obviously wasn't going to happen so he had to start form square one with a guy with no real angle or push. That killed him not the comedy reign

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

It's pretty much well what happened in Jerichos reign - except they tried to have Jericho go serious for his match w/ the Rock - but then got really goofy afterwards and almost lost to Maven and then curtain jerked a smackdown w. Tazz.

 

The Comedy stuff hurt him when he was champion - the champion shouldn't be a goofball, or at least, be a semi-goofball who can still get it done in the ring and doesn't cheat in every single freakin match. It's like they said "what's the worst way this title run could go" and then went with it.

[Guest Anglesault]

I don't agree for the simple fact that Angle was still super over on the day his reign finished

My favorite excuse!

 

"Well, terrible writing hasn't ruined his heat yet, so why should they write good stuff?

[Guest Rob Edwards]

but if it's pulling ratings and getting crowd heat it's not awful writing, It's just something you don't like to see your boy doing is it not?

 

Jericho was getting there too post Rock, of course Austin killed any chance he had of getting serious after that, but fans were starting to take Jericho more seriously

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

I don't really think anything could have saved Jericho though - the simple fact that he had to CHEAT to win the undisputed title taints it.

 

Angles reign got ratings?

 

Any way you slice it, having your WORLD CHAMPION act like a goofball and rarely ever getting a clean win is NOT GOOD BOOKING.

[LooseCannon25 0]

I don't really think anything could have saved Jericho though - the simple fact that he had to CHEAT to win the undisputed title taints it.

 

Angles reign got ratings?

 

Any way you slice it, having your WORLD CHAMPION act like a goofball and rarely ever getting a clean win is NOT GOOD BOOKING.

I agree with this.....and they did much better in his last reign with him defeating Benoit at Rumble in a no nonsense match. The world champion cant be a freakin joke