Guest TheHulkster Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 Oh, so politics weren't around before Hulk Hogan. So Lou Thesz saying he would never drop the NWA strap to Buddy Rogers was just a minor disagreement. Nope, no politics there.
Guest cobainwasmurdered Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 who said politics weren't around before hogan?????
Guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 I have been watching wrestling for eighteen years since you asked. Not sure what that is supposed to prove though. "Hogan would Hulk up at the end of the match, no sell everything, and put his opponent away with a frickin leg drop!" That was his gimmick. Just like the Undertaker used to no sell. It was a part of his character. Get over it. I do not know that I could say that Flair held anyone down. He certainly did not help put anyone over as a booker though if you believe what Mick Foley says in his first book.
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 Exactly what is it that Hogan brought to the WWF that you see today? No selling by the Undertaker? Does anyone remember that the ratings and buyrates went in the shitter for the WWF until they completely changed away from the Hogan style charicatures? Remember WWF attitude? The movement that, led by a new star, brought the WWF back to the top (passing the almighty Hogan's WCW in the process)? What does Hogan have to do with "attitude"? and what the fuck does he have to do with "desire"? Nothing. It's nostalgia.
Guest cobainwasmurdered Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 the feud sting had with flair is what made him so popular. the nWa had tremendous sucsess when flair was the booker. you can't please everyone and that's what happened with foley.
Guest TheHulkster Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 You act like Hogan meant nothing to the sport. Hogan made the WWF what it is today, like him or not, he made mcmahon rich and made all the other wrestlers rich and was the key factor into building the wwf into an entertainment powerhouse. I guess that all means nothing because the only contribution he has made to wrestling was "he taught taker how to no sell". Ignorance is bliss I guess.
Guest cobainwasmurdered Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 hogan didn't do anything for "the sport" he did a hell of alot for "sportz entertainment" though. I'm a fan of traditonal wrestling, i always hated how people would freak out for a wrestler who used their patriotic feelings for his own gain. there's no denying hogan is a legend but that doesn't mean i have to like what he's done.
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 Hogan made the WWF what it WAS up until they overhauled everything he was about. Do you know what would have happened if Hogan had walked into a WWF arena in 1998? Hogan and his popularity stopped doing anything for the WWF when the bottom fell out in 1995/96. They had to start over. And they HAD to go the exact opposite root from Hulkamania. "Ignorance is bliss I guess." Is it?
Guest cobainwasmurdered Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 who should take his word on the fact that ignorance is bliss. after all anyone who thinks Hogan made the wwf wht it is, is an expert in ignorance.
Guest KTA Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 Exactly what is it that Hogan brought to the WWF that you see today? Let's see, he started fucking over wrestlers and their idea of a union. A "let's fuck over the mid-card and any babyface who is more over than me" blueprint . . . And HHH does just fine with the backstabbing and political games he plays with Vince today. A happy ending there. He also gave the a wWf pissed off, and strongly disgruntled Steve Austin. Then ATTITUDE became born into our world; thus poisoning hulk's own crappy cartoon-era residue that stayed in the WWF s 1980-98 timeline. The man is so ahead of us all.
Guest TheHulkster Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 Hogan's popularity is the reason the wwf ever meant a damn to begin with. Im not trying to say his star never faded or his popularity didn't wane or that you have to like him, but realize what he did for the wwf in its early years. A lot of people in here shit on his legacy because of net rumors taken out of control. Im sure he has protected his spot, but flair protected his spot, lou thesz protected his spot, Andre protected his spot, ed strangler lewis protected his spot. Thats how human nature is. Does Hogan belong in a wrestling ring now? No. Vince gave him the opprotunity to see main events again, to have the crowd cheering for him again, to have fame and fortune again instead of sitting home filming another B movie and he took it. In the same position, anyone would take that offer up. Flair did, andre did, lou thesz did, are they all evil?
Guest cobainwasmurdered Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 in it's early years is the key. the only person he's helping now is Terry Bollea. and the wwf meant a damn before hogan and will continue to long after hogan has gone to his grave.
Guest Tony149 Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 Hogan's popularity is the reason the wwf ever meant a damn to begin with. I don't think that's true. Vince raided everybodys talent. Sooner or later everybody was going out. He could of just used Andre The Giant as his star.
Guest cobainwasmurdered Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 if vimce hadn't signed hogan he would have thrown money at flair ntil flair jumped ship. vince was set up to dominate wrestling anyway what with the way he bought up all the indies.
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 I don't think its true either Tony. Who's to say that the WWF wouldn't be just as big...or bigger with a different star? Nothing. As much as some would like there too be...there just isn't. There isn't any proof the other way either...so its a moot point. But if a guy who can't wrestle...and cut the same promo for a decade can be the biggest star ever...
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 This isn't the If-Then statements thread cobain... but touche.
Guest TheHulkster Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 Andre made a lot of money in the pro wrestling industry, but he didn't break through wrestling and become a part of pop culture and neither did flair. If Flair, a man who also made a lot, had that much drawing ability, it wouldve happened.
Guest KTA Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 Nahh, I'm not trying to pisss anyone off really, this is just the net. However, I was seeing this AwA special recently and I can really see why Hogan was such a bad ass fan favorite those days. They even fucked w him and didn't give a belt those times. He still got over like ALL HELL!@$%^!! He gave a speech where he is still "Your champ" the people's champ. He was funny, was a GOOD GUY, and worked audiences into a frenzy. He has a ring charisma; people will HAVE to respond to him. It's a good skill to wrestle w and earn money w, truly it is if you're as sharp as Hogan has been However, let's not joke and forget about his history. Vince gave him the ball on some occasions, and he dropped it. He somehow (magically I might add) didn't drop to the midcard. HE wore out out his M Event welcome eventually but stayed fighting Sgt Slaughter as a Terrorist Who says Bret wouldn't get over as a Title holder and M E player if he never FIGHTS Hogan? That shit can make a former hulka maniac bitter. I don't think he's gotten by being a nice guy backstage his whole career. He screwed some people up very badly. Look at his WCW career and look at that lame run he had back then. Listen to everybody's story and they point at Hulk. Also, really Hogan was pretty much THE breakout star at the time, so every one give him some credit or you're just lying to yourself about how marks react to him.
Guest bps "The Truth" 21 Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 the NWA didn't have the money, drive or determination that Vince did, let alone the savvy. I always viewed the fact that Flair was able to keep that company afloat for so long to be one of the more impressive feats in the history of the business. There is no telling what Flair could have done in the top spot of the WWF (which as stated had already begun devouring every other form of wrestling in North America). Hogan made the WWF huge, no doubt. But when he left, and business sank...it all changed. Hogan made the WWF...and then WCW nearly broke it. In order to rebound, Vince used his savvy to overhaul the direction of his business completely. For as much as Hogan has done...since about mid 97...I don't see it's effects on business today.
Guest cobainwasmurdered Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 Andre made a lot of money in the pro wrestling industry, but he didn't break through wrestling and become a part of pop culture and neither did flair. If Flair, a man who also made a lot, had that much drawing ability, it wouldve happened. flair never wanted to be part of pop culture though. annd Andre was in a fairly big role in the princess bride. God i love that movie.....
Guest KTA Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 Damn, Andre pretty much dies around the time the Princess bride gets released on betamaxes across the world. . . Shit, man People knew about him before but he wasn't starring in cartoons and shit cause he talks like an overgrown french Wight who's buzzed on drinking the bar till it's just about empty. I wish that he could have had the Big Show's character. Chasing little Shane around the arena, wearing guady t-shirts, doing a worm, yelling 'AAWWWUUURRRRAAUUU" when he pleases, drooling after he wins, and Wait, no. That would have stunk to all HIGH HEAVENS too! But I say he should have mocked Hulk Hogan and his 'Venice beach weight lifter dude I like surfing' gimmick. AAAUUUUUARRRRAAAAAAAARRRRR
Guest Tony149 Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 the NWA didn't have the money, drive or determination that Vince did, let alone the savvy. I always viewed the fact that Flair was able to keep that company afloat for so long to be one of the more impressive feats in the history of the business. There is no telling what Flair could have done in the top spot of the WWF (which as stated had already begun devouring every other form of wrestling in North America). I think Dave Meltzer said it best about the idea of Flair as the top WWF guy in the '80s. He said the mainstream media and fans would of been taught a different kind of wrestling. Which I assume he meant people of would viewed wrestling more as a sport than a human cartoon. I agree about Flair keeping the NWA together. Had he left any soon than 1991, then the NWA/WCW is dead sooner. By the time he left WCW in 1991, it was already owned by Turner. Who was able to take the money losses the company had.
Guest cobainwasmurdered Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 flair was the glue that held the company together. that's why i consider flair the greatest of all time. not many men can almost single handely keep a company going.
Guest KTA Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 not many men can almost single handely keep a company going. Wait, what about Stone Cold, Hulk Hogan, and Goldberg? They saved their ship a good amount of times too. And they are all men.
Guest cobainwasmurdered Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 stone cold did that true. but i dont think goldberg did, or hogan but that's debateble
Guest KTA Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 There were many Hulk marks in Wcw and Goldberg made people chant and mark out at EVERY victory. When the show got slow or Russo crazed w lingo from backstage, people still liked Bill - and Hogan still (!) owns/owned in getting his mark heat. That is just . . . . whaat
Guest caboose Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 first off, refusing to work with someone is not politics, it's called having an ego. politics is using backstage influence to prevent pushes or depushes for others, putting yourself over and avoiding clean jobs. hogan for reasons mentioned in this topic and another topic i posted is THE worst politician ever.
Guest RavishingRickRudo Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 The thing is... You cant change a hulkamanias mind... At least the 'long-time hulkamaniac', They, we, me, accept the fact that the guy sucks in the ring, holds people down, ruined a company, so pointing out stuff like 'snitching on Jesse Ventura' is just wasting boardspace... WE DONT CARE. We choose to be hogan marks, mainly out of loyalty (for me) and we still get the same feeling that we had when we were 7 or 8 years old watching the hulkster hulking up, or droppin the leg or cupping his hand over his ear. And you cant change a anti-hoganites mind because the facts are facts... He sucked in the ring, he held people down, he made brutus beefcake a household shame.
Guest Posted March 27, 2002 Report Posted March 27, 2002 I've been watching wrestling, full time for around two years now. But I can done tell you Hogan and his friends are bad for business. Next time you should have a strong basis for your arguments.
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