Lance Storm unhappy and a new upcoming gimmick

[Mecha Mummy 0]

Read his website - Lance is one angry man.

but hes getting paid.. tell him to get the hell out of WWE and do some Indy work for awhile, then he'll appreciate what he had..

 

fuckin crybaby

Um, I don't know. Raven makes more on the indies than he did in the WWE. Maybe Lance could too.

[Guest Goodear]

As for his look, Storm has a great look. He has been able to get in incredible shape with no roids - that should be rewarded in an industry where drug use is rampant.

I wouldn't say the guy isn't doing roids if I were you, there is no telling what these guys are sticking in their bodies and while sometimes its really obvious who is doing them it's not so clear who isn't. When the steroid trials came down it was (I believe) Roddy Piper and Danny Spivey that ended up testifying that they were on the stuff and neither one of them looked anything like Scott Steiner. Anyway regardless of that, Storm looks incredibly generic and does nothing with it to get over a personality (which is the problem with his ring work as well). But at least he doesn't still have the rat's tail from Smokey Mountain anymore.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

RVD got over because of flashy moves - he was supposed to be a heel but instead went the face route. The WWE put him in circumstances where his ability would be put to good use - the hardcore match with Jeff Hardy at Invasion, the ladder match with Jeff at Summerslam. Storm follows the belief that in doing flashy moves, you're going to make yourself a face, but when the company wants you to be a heel you have to dum it down.

 

Matt and Jeff got over due to their ladder match with E&C @ No Mercy. The WWE saw this ability and capitalized on it - setting up the TLC matches.

 

Rikishi got over by shoving his ass in peoples faces. The WWE saw his large ass and said "hmmm", and started shoving everyones face, from Steph to Vince to Angle, in there.

 

Hurricane got over on camp-value. The WWE pushed the whackiness of it.

 

Are we seeing a pattern here?

[Guest Goodear]

Is the pattern that Lance doesn't have a hook that the WWE can capitalize on?

[Guest Polish_Rifle]

At least Lance gets some sort of medical plan with the company. He'd be completely on his own if he were in the indies.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

"The only wrestler I can say with 100% certainty that doesn't take steroids is Lance Storm" - Jeff Marek, who knows Storm.

 

Storm's physique is actually pretty unique in the WWE anyways. He isn't skinny by any means, but isn't thick like a Benoit or a HHH.

 

I don't see where the WWE has put Storm in a position to get himself over.

 

Storm was the first guy from WCW to "attack" the WWE... and was forgotten about. He was in the ring when ECW reformed and turned on the WWE...and was forgotten about.

 

The Unamericans was a bad idea in the first place - everyone knew that the WWE was capitalizing on the emotions from 9/11 - but the WWE wouldn't go over the line with it and have these "unamericans" (what a horrible name) come out and say "hey American, you deserved it" and then go and piss on the WTC site. Instead they put the flag upside down... OH THE HUMANITY!!! I don't see what Storm could have done here.

 

The Tag Team with Regal was a Regal vehicle, not a Storm one. When a teams biggest feud is with two announcers, then there's a problem.

 

And now they are just using Storm as a complete jobber who doesn't even get his own entrance. Yes, this is 1992 and you are watching Superstars. Up next, Barry Horowitz..

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Everyone has a hook.

[Guest it-lenny]

Read his website - Lance is one angry man.

but hes getting paid.. tell him to get the hell out of WWE and do some Indy work for awhile, then he'll appreciate what he had..

 

fuckin crybaby

Um, I don't know. Raven makes more on the indies than he did in the WWE. Maybe Lance could too.

Are you Raven's accountant? LOL.. you obviously dont really know what most of the indys pay their workers....

[Guest Goodear]

The point is not that the WWE hasn't done anything to get Storm over (they really haven't) but he doesn't help himself by not really doing anything for them to draw on either. Sure he's not an embarrassingly bad wrestler, but he does nothing that would seperate him from the pack either. Like I said, to get Storm over a company has to dedicate themselves to the task. The WWE did not bother to do so and I can see why when they have much better tools they can and do work with.

[Guest it-lenny]

The point is not that the WWE hasn't done anything to get Storm over (they really haven't) but he doesn't help himself by not really doing anything for them to draw on either. Sure he's not an embarrassingly bad wrestler, but he does nothing that would seperate him from the pack either. Like I said, to get Storm over a company has to dedicate themselves to the task. The WWE did not bother to do so and I can see why when they have much better tools they can and do work with.

well put..

[Guest Goodear]

Everyone has a hook.

So... what's Storms?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Better tools? 3MW?

 

I don't see how anyone could separate themselves from the pack in the WWE. They are all told to wrestle the same, bland style in a short period of time. The only guy who was able to do it was RVD (and Tajiri, but he was quickly buried) and that's because RVD was (a)protected by Paul, and (b)wasn't worried about getting canned cause, well, does RVD worry about anything? Storm can't really do that. It is a great risk to go against the grain in the WWE - I don't think you could hold it against Storm for not trying to 'grab the spotlight' when you're not allowed to. Storm is one of the best athletes in the WWE (with a fantastic vertical leap) and has the ability to do that, but just can't.

 

Promo and Push time is reserved for a set group of guys - a set group that Lance just isn't a part of. Does Storm have any distinguished attributes about him? No. Does he have something that the WWE could captalize on? Yes. It's just a matter of them wanting to do so.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

Oh come on! Page 3!!!

[Guest Redhawk]

RVD got over because of flashy moves - he was supposed to be a heel but instead went the face route. The WWE put him in circumstances where his ability would be put to good use - the hardcore match with Jeff Hardy at Invasion, the ladder match with Jeff at Summerslam. Storm follows the belief that in doing flashy moves, you're going to make yourself a face, but when the company wants you to be a heel you have to dum it down.

 

Seeing as Lance and RVD came in around the same time and were both supposed to be heels, let's use the InVasion-to-SummerSlam period as points of comparison: RVD's ability is acrobatics, which he was able to display at InVasion and SS and he stayed over after that. Sure he became a face within a heel stable, but there were other guys who got over as heels during the WCW/ECW thing (Booker T, Kanyon, Rhyno, Dudleys) who were supposed to be heels.

 

Back to Storm, though. Lance's ability is technical wrestling, right? At InVasion and SS he was allowed to do that, yet he didn't get or stay over. Before InVasion, Lance was the first WCW guy to show up in WWF. At InVasion he was in the very first WCW vs. WWF match (which was supposed to be a big deal), he was partnered with his Mike Awesome (a tag team that was over in WCW, which also allowed Lance to work with someone he was comfortable with; RVD was thrown out there with Jeff Hardy, who needs to be carried and RVD hadn't worked with before). Lance was also put up against the most over tag team in WWF in Edge and Christian. Enough of a push for you? At SummerSlam, as Intercontintental Champion no less (they even aborted their precious Albert push for Lance's sake) Lance was given plenty of time to do a technical match with an already-over babyface (Edge).

 

So both Storm and RVD were given equal opportunity to get over leading up to SummerSlam, right? In fact, you could argue Storm was given an easier road. Now, who stayed over? RVD. Who didn't? Lance Storm.

 

Matt and Jeff got over due to their ladder match with E&C @ No Mercy. The WWE saw this ability and capitalized on it - setting up the TLC matches.

 

They had to get over before that to even get into the ladder match. Matt and Jeff actually got over doing insane shit on Sunday Night Heat in, guess what? 5-minute matches. That's the Hardyz "thing," though, doing insane shit. Lance was given the chance to do his "thing" and didn't get over.

 

Rikishi got over by shoving his ass in peoples faces. The WWE saw his large ass and said "hmmm", and started shoving everyones face, from Steph to Vince to Angle, in there.

 

Please. Rikishi was over big-time before he ever did a Stinkface on anyone. Remember Royal Rumble? Remember the title match with Triple H on Smackdown? That was when Rikishi was MOST over. He only started doing the Stinkface when his heat started dying down they needed to keep it up. If anything, say Rikishi got over by dancing, not the Stinkface.

 

Hurricane got over on camp-value. The WWE pushed the whackiness of it.

 

Yeah, something stood out about him. Nothing about Storm stands out.

 

Are we seeing a pattern here?

 

Yeah. Lance Storm has never been able to get over.

[Guest Adrian 3:16]

They had to get over before that to even get into the ladder match. Matt and Jeff actually got over doing insane shit on Sunday Night Heat in, guess what? 5-minute matches. That's the Hardyz "thing," though, doing insane shit. Lance was given the chance to do his "thing" and didn't get over.

But since its not Storm's thing to do insane shit in 5 minute matches, you have to give him something else. What works for RVD and the Hardyz is not going to work for everybody. That's one thing that Heyman understood that WWE has never seemed to grasp: you play to a wrestler's strengths, not his weaknesses.

 

As a promoter you'll want every wrestler, every character as over as possible. But to do that you don't sabotage their push by making them do exactly what they're not good at. RVD has to work his hardcore spot-fests, not a boring, old fashioned "story telling" match like he was forced to with HHH. Goldberg is meant to come in and kick the shit out of jobbers, not be exposed in long matches and talk a lot when his mic work is atrocious. And a guy like Storm needs a chance to work a technical match, you give him 2 minutes and expect him to bounce like a pinball like his name was Jeff Hardy and of course he's going nowhere. Oh, and letting him WIN *gasp* once in awhile just might help too...

 

Just look at Storm's stay in WCW. He comes in as a surprise partner to Kidman, which is a big deal because right off the bat he's built up as a ringer. Sure enough he kicks the shit out of a bunch of guys, turns on his little buddy Kidman, wins 3 or so titles, gets time for his hilarious (yeah I said it) promos, and becomes leader of his own stable. That's how you get someone over. Compare that to WWE, where he played the Stevie to Regal's Victoria.

 

I agree that 2001 was the only time Storm was actually made to look like a threat, so no argument from me there. I even liked the guantlent angle where Flair made him fight Show, Kane and finally Rock to get his job back- even if it was as a heel it gave people the impression there must be something special about him if he went through all that and Flair gave him the chance to begin with. But everything after that went to shit- the unAmericans nonsense and playing Regal's bitch in a riveting feud with the announcers is not going to keep anyone over. (Well maybe bob barron enjoyed it, but I'm sure the other 99% of the audience begged to differ)

[Guest Rob Edwards]

Storms hook is the so boring he's entertaining thing, WWE just has to put him in the right situations to exploit it, maybe have a valet come on to him and Lance not notice because he's too into his work or something?

[Mecha Mummy 0]

Read his website - Lance is one angry man.

but hes getting paid.. tell him to get the hell out of WWE and do some Indy work for awhile, then he'll appreciate what he had..

 

fuckin crybaby

Um, I don't know. Raven makes more on the indies than he did in the WWE. Maybe Lance could too.

Are you Raven's accountant? LOL.. you obviously dont really know what most of the indys pay their workers....

Raven has openly stated MULTIPLE times that he makes more in the indies. The only true variable there is that some people try to undercharge him or cancel the shows.

[Guest Rob Edwards]

Lance got hired from his WCW contract though, seeing as WCW poached him I'd imagine he's well off until he has to renegotiate

[Guest Goodear]

Better tools? 3MW?

 

Three Minute Warning is getting a push? I must have missed that one inbetween all the jobbing and losing and jobbing some more. Sure WWE tried to push them when they first came in, but they do that for everyone. Now Rosie and Jamal are on the job train choo choo.

 

I don't think you could hold it against Storm for not trying to 'grab the spotlight' when you're not allowed to. Storm is one of the best athletes in the WWE (with a fantastic vertical leap) and has the ability to do that, but just can't.

 

Sure I can, guys who do well in wrestling grab your attention and refuse to let go in some way. Every successful grappler in WWE does it. Lance does not do that because of a complete lack of color, a lack entertaining matches in the last year, and a lack of a tight moveset. People just don't pay to see the guy that can leap the highest.

[Guest Adrian 3:16]

Storms hook is the so boring he's entertaining thing, WWE just has to put him in the right situations to exploit it, maybe have a valet come on to him and Lance not notice because he's too into his work or something?

There you go, I could get with that. Now how long did that take you to come up with that, about 2 seconds? Its taken WWE 2 years and counting...

[Guest it-lenny]

Read his website - Lance is one angry man.

but hes getting paid.. tell him to get the hell out of WWE and do some Indy work for awhile, then he'll appreciate what he had..

 

fuckin crybaby

Um, I don't know. Raven makes more on the indies than he did in the WWE. Maybe Lance could too.

Are you Raven's accountant? LOL.. you obviously dont really know what most of the indys pay their workers....

Raven has openly stated MULTIPLE times that he makes more in the indies. The only true variable there is that some people try to undercharge him or cancel the shows.

and you believing what he says makes you a blind mark

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

RVD's ability is acrobatics, which he was able to display at InVasion and SS and he stayed over after that.

 

Storm can do acrobatics too. He just doesn't because he's a heel and proper heels don't do that sort of thing.

 

Sure he became a face within a heel stable, but there were other guys who got over as heels during the WCW/ECW thing (Booker T, Kanyon, Rhyno, Dudleys) who were supposed to be heels.

 

Dudleys were already over before that - and got over by using tables. Booker T got over much later with those (horrible) skits with Goldust which were made entertaining on Booker T's ability alone as a straight man - total respect for Booker T there, but that's not ring related, nor does it come into the confines of a 5 minute match. Kanyon, over? Whuh? Rhyno, huh?

 

Back to Storm, though. Lance's ability is technical wrestling, right?

 

In the WWE? No. Lance's "technical ability" was dummed down to the kick-punch style that we've all come to know and love.

 

At InVasion and SS he was allowed to do that, yet he didn't get or stay over. Before InVasion, Lance was the first WCW guy to show up in WWF. At InVasion he was in the very first WCW vs. WWF match (which was supposed to be a big deal), he was partnered with his Mike Awesome (a tag team that was over in WCW, which also allowed Lance to work with someone he was comfortable with; RVD was thrown out there with Jeff Hardy, who needs to be carried and RVD hadn't worked with before).

 

You're kidding me right? Oh that poor RVD! Having to move around all those smoke and mirrors in that match with Jeff Hardy! It must have been very tough! And of course, you conveniently left out the fact that Storm _lost_ that match, while RVD _won_ his. Did Storm/Awesome vs. Edge/Christian have any build up? Oh wait, it had storm losing to Christian a week before the PPV as well. *Smacks head* oh yeah, I forgot, silly me. Man, with all that build up for Storm it's hard to imagine anyone fucking it up. And then there was that EPIC 3 minute match with Jericho where Storm tapped out. Shit, they just gave Storm the goldberg push there, HOW COULD HE HAVE EVER FUCKED IT UP?!

 

Lance was also put up against the most over tag team in WWF in Edge and Christian. Enough of a push for you?

 

Um, no. Should it be? You *do* know that a push doesn't _just_ consist of "being there" right? The WWE has to _do something_ with you as well to make it mean anything. It's like giving him a car with no gas. It's like saying Jericho got a push when they gave him the undisputed title. You don't actually think that... do you?

 

At SummerSlam, as Intercontintental Champion no less (they even aborted their precious Albert push for Lance's sake) Lance was given plenty of time to do a technical match with an already-over babyface (Edge).

 

And the match was one of the best on the card and one of Edges best match up to that point in time (hell, it was Edges best singles match). The IC title is meaningless btw, esp. when you win it in a 2 minute throwaway match which STILL has a screw job ending and Edge transitioned into a feud with Christian while Storm was left out in the cold - so could you explain to me how Storm fucked it up? Oh, it must have been in that Saturn/Moppy match, or that Kurt Angle squash, or that tag match where he and credible lost to E&C before the PPV or maybe his entire title run where he was made to look like a total fucking goof!?

 

Oh, and the next night on raw, they must have done something really special with this former IC champion.. HOLY SHIT! A MATCH WITH THE ROCK! WHATTANOPPORTUNITY! YEAH! BIG TIME! What? 3 minutes? Looked like a bitch? Took a ppls elbow from a midget? Well, shit, what a better fucking push than that!

 

So both Storm and RVD were given equal opportunity to get over leading up to SummerSlam, right? In fact, you could argue Storm was given an easier road. Now, who stayed over? RVD. Who didn't? Lance Storm.

 

Oh yeah, Storm was given the much easier road of being pushed as a total goofball and not having a serious win in his entire stay there.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

3MW got a huge push in the Summer.

 

How can Storm stand out when all he wrestles is tag matches (where he's the guy who gets thrown around a lot) and squash-jobs? The only match where he was ever able to showcase his ability is that SS01 match with Edge, which was a really good match that the WWE did NOT follow up on AT ALL.

[Mecha Mummy 0]

Read his website - Lance is one angry man.

but hes getting paid.. tell him to get the hell out of WWE and do some Indy work for awhile, then he'll appreciate what he had..

 

fuckin crybaby

Um, I don't know. Raven makes more on the indies than he did in the WWE. Maybe Lance could too.

Are you Raven's accountant? LOL.. you obviously dont really know what most of the indys pay their workers....

Raven has openly stated MULTIPLE times that he makes more in the indies. The only true variable there is that some people try to undercharge him or cancel the shows.

and you believing what he says makes you a blind mark

Awww, that SOOO hurts my feelings. What was Raven's pay in WWE? Do you know, smart one? Please, educate the 'blind mark', because I remember reading that the average midcarder makes like 10K per month. Can anyone confirm this?

[Guest Rob Edwards]

I can't confirm it but I think it's anywhere between $60,000 - $200,000 basic with everything else based on tickets, merchandise etc

 

and Raven was hardly in a position to make extra on that

[Guest Adrian 3:16]

Oh, and the next night on raw, they must have done something really special with this former IC champion.. HOLY SHIT! A MATCH WITH THE ROCK! WHATTANOPPORTUNITY! YEAH! BIG TIME! What? 3 minutes? Looked like a bitch? Took a ppls elbow from a midget? Well, shit, what a better fucking push than that!

Agreed 100% Rudo. I'll never get the mentality that a squash to a main eventer is considered a push, as if Rock is some holy messiah of wrestling and Storm is an infedel they're doing a favor to by just letting him be there with him. Here's a rundown:

 

Scenario 1: Storm actually beats The Rock. (not even saying that he should've, just an example) This is a push.

 

Scenario 2: Storm loses, but has a great match where he takes The Rock to his limit and both guys look great in the process. This is a push. (my choice by the way)

 

Scenario 3: Rock beats the fuck out of him and lets his midget buddy finish him off. Not a push.

 

 

I do have to disagree that Kanyon and Rhyno were unover circa Invasion, they were both fairly popular (Kanyon less so). Of course when they finally came back from their year and a half absences WWE did less then nothing with them so now they're not over, which only proves our point that much more.

[Guest Goodear]

3MW got a huge push in the Summer.

 

I think you might be abusing the word 'huge' since I can't remember them doing much but attack old ladies and lesbians but whatever...

 

How can Storm stand out when all he wrestles is tag matches (where he's the guy who gets thrown around a lot) and squash-jobs? The only match where he was ever able to showcase his ability is that SS01 match with Edge, which was a really good match that the WWE did NOT follow up on AT ALL.

 

How did Rico stand out by being a manager to Billy and Chuck and 3MW? He found a way to garner heat with the gimmick and used it without a great deal of support from the front office. Lance simply doesn't have the same tools as other guys when it comes to charisma and the good wrestler that he is, he still doesn't come close to being anywhere near the top workers in the federation.

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

For, what, a month and a half (?) 3MW was squashing people - from big show to yes, lesbians - left, right and centre. They were the henchmen of the boss, Eric Bischoff. They were put into the 'big angle' (which bombed, of course. But WWE's intentions were for it to garner attention from the media) with Billy and Chuck and were in the first, albiet meaningless, "interpromotional" match between Raw and Smackdown. The WWE put time and effort into building up 3MW - A LOT more time than building up Lance Storm.

 

Rico's heat was "Rico's Gay" - and given the homophobic nature of the WWE fans, that's not really hard to do.

[Guest Rob Edwards]

I thought Rico's heat was more to do with the arrogance than the gayness

 

Was he ever formally pushed as gay anyway?

[Guest RavishingRickRudo]

The fans chant "Rico's gay"!