Guest newblood03 Report post Posted June 13, 2003 No worse than what tanks been doin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vyce Report post Posted June 13, 2003 That Undertaker interview angered me irrationally. That was coupled with his match with Stambolit tonight. I just find him to be a fucking joke. Goddamn, he's trying hard to be all MMA with his "soupbone" punches and awful triangle choke. If ever there was a wrestler who I would actually cheer Cro Crop to light up, it'd be Taker. Show him how it's REALLY done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 13, 2003 Cro Cop vs. Taker... Oooooh sweet mercy. JR: And now, Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic, a member in the Croation Antiterrorist unit and K-1 and Pride fighter up against the Undertaker, a decade of destruction, devestation inc, dead man incorporated, fighting is a lifestyle, big evil, booger red, bah gawd the phenom. The square off in the centre of the ring, Cro Cop looking very relaxed, Taker looking cool as well, SOOPBONES BY THE UNDERTAKER! GET EM MARK! GET EM! SOOPBONES! LEFT! RIGHT! LEFT! RIGHT! RIGHT! RIGHT! SOOPBONES! SOOOOPBOOOOONES! OOOOOOOOOH and a left high kick by Cro Cop and Taker is out... dammit! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Hogan Made Wrestling Report post Posted June 13, 2003 Cro Cop vs. Taker... Oooooh sweet mercy. JR: And now, Mirko "Cro Cop" Filipovic, a member in the Croation Antiterrorist unit and K-1 and Pride fighter up against the Undertaker, a decade of destruction, devestation inc, dead man incorporated, fighting is a lifestyle, big evil, booger red, bah gawd the phenom. The square off in the centre of the ring, Cro Cop looking very relaxed, Taker looking cool as well, SOOPBONES BY THE UNDERTAKER! GET EM MARK! GET EM! SOOPBONES! LEFT! RIGHT! LEFT! RIGHT! RIGHT! RIGHT! SOOPBONES! SOOOOPBOOOOONES! OOOOOOOOOH and a left high kick by Cro Cop and Taker is out... dammit! What's funny is that if it went down EXACTLY that way, Taker would have still done better vs. Cro Cop than Nagata did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 13, 2003 Poor Nagata. Poor Poor Nagata. He didn't bleed like Fujita, but... Poor Poor Nagata. Anyways, Taker was shadowboxing and Ross was orgasming over it.... I guess I should have explain that futher Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rob Edwards Report post Posted June 13, 2003 Eh at least Nagata didn't have a huge shootfight reputation to be destoyed Unlike a certain Mr Sapp Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted June 13, 2003 I do not judge soley on workrate, its just hearing JR try to say the slow plodding style is on purpose is so lame its not even funny. Well sometimes it is on purpose. I mean logically if you're facing Rey Mysterio Jr. and you outwieght him by 100 plus pounds, a storyline could be that you try to keep him on the mat and keep him away from running the ropes. But yeah, some guys are just slow. But how long can Taker keep going? If Flair had retired in 90 and put Sting over, Sting would have been a god in wrestling, but Flair is STILL around(and yes I am a Flair fan) and he never let Sting reach that truly top status. Same think with Taker, if he had put over Jeff Hardy in the ladder match, Jeff would have been huge, but taker wouldn't. So Jeff kept dying. (And in retrospect, its probabaly for the best he didnt, but Jeff would have been a star.) Instead, Taker put over Brock in Hell in The Cell and made Lesnar a much larger star than he had been. Jeff Hardy was obviously a mess even then and they knew he would not be a top guy in the industry and those are really the people that Taker should be saving his jobs for... otherwise you get the Benoit situation we're in now where him doing the job means nothing. But yeah, older guys need to put over new folks more often. But after watch all that WCW cant you tell the difference between a good match and a bad one, it shouldnt be that hard to figure out after watching guys like Ice Train. But pro wrestling is a visual sport, so watching it helps you understand it, and dont they show it on TV which is a visual medium? They show Simpsons on television and I can tell a good episode from a bad one. But an expert might be able to give you a lot more information than just the quotes from the show that I could, like the names of the producers or the voice actors. They might tell you the entire inspiration for the show based off interviews that I wouldn't be bothered to look up. I just think you're throwing out the term too liberally. Nash doesnt care about anyone but Nash, its the same problem Hogan had and in case you forgot, that egomania helped kill WCW. Nash will be around for like another 5 years or so, and Im willing to bet he wont put anyone over before he leaves, therefore, he'll bury his spot and help no one. So fuck him. Exactly who else should Nash care about? If Nash makes The Hurricane a big star, Helms will not end up sharing the profits he makes out of the deal. It is management's job to keep their performers in order and make sure that powerplays are not tolerated, but there have been historically very few people that volunteer to do high profile jobs. What killed WCW is that there was no management and no clear direction or writing for the company. Albert has improved, slightly, Ill admit it, and he hasnt commited Mark Henery sins yet, but something tells me, the guy is not willing to improve, just like other guys on the top.*COUGHHOGANHHHNASH* Hogan improving now would be quite a site considering he can barely walk and all. But I'm not sure where you're going with this whole Albert thing other than he's 'big and therefor sucks'. There is not anyone in the WWE that has overhauled his moveset more often or gone so long without having to take a break for either injury or a simple vacation. Yes, easier said then done, but this is one dream I have been chasing and hasnt died yet, despite my interest in North American pro wrestling. Sides, I can do pretty much every move Nash can do, along with Gilbert, hell Hogan doesnt do moves that any 8 year old cant do. But Hogan has charisma in spades and Nash is 6'8" or something. God bless you if you are have either one of those qualities because it will make your treck in wrestling a million times easier. But don't think a new guy can come in at 6' and just do the leg drop and suceed. Have you ever heard him talk about NJPW or FMW or BJPW or any japanese wrestling superstars? I have not. No... but he has worked with a few of them. Mick Foley, Rey Mysterio, and many others have done major tours in a number of countries. Lets not pretend that Undertaker is so ignorant that he had no idea where those guys actually came from... If its so hard to do it, how come there are so many wrestling schools out there? How many of those schools turn out consistantly good students? I can think of two (Shawn Michaels' Texas Wrestling Acadamy and The Hart Family Dungeon). And its only hard because you've been told its hard, its not. Same with making a movie, its not hard, it just requires a lot of work. Dont believe the propaganda. If its easy, why is there not a hugely popular and profitable wrestling organization in the world? And if its so hard, why are there so many pro wrestlers out there? And how many are really good... maybe fifty? Well why is it that Benoit and Angle go out there and can bust ass, move quickly, and get A STANDING OVATION after matches, but guys like Nash and Taker dont? Because Benoit and Angle have neck injuries and not knee injuries, not to mention that they have probably always been faster than Taker and Nash simply based on their size. Not to mention that Benoit and Angle have more charisma that other guys that are quick and "bust ass" don't have (such as Kidman, Funaki and Jamie Noble). You're simply confusing speed with effort, and think because Undertaker does not move at a blinding speed that he's not trying and that's hooey. Why is it when I bitch about things like this im told, awe your just a stupid internet mark? Yet I watch the product, I care about the product enough to know, hey these net people buy our stuff and watch our show, maybe we should listen to them instead of just out and out bashing them. Because Smarks have huge blind spots that goes against the entire nature of the business. We place most of our eggs in the singular basket of mat workers with a few high spots and ignore most everything else. The fact is that there are had Smarks been in charge, Hulk Hogan would never have been put in the position to draw huge money for Vince. Someone needs to stand up to the WWE machine and say, look, the old ways are old, and you're becomming WCW version 2.0, and since most of your top guys played politics to get to the top spot, you're not looking at a healthy future. You have a unique product, wrestling, but you refuse to use it. STOP and start using it. Politics are a part of wrestling that plague it from top to bottom. If there is a federation out there that doesn't I'm missing it. Im just so sick and tired of the WWE shitting on us and treating us like total crap. Hello, WE CARE, yet to them, we dont even matter. Because if the WWE listened to us, half the roster would have been fired repeatedly. Why should The Undertaker listen to the smarks when its clear that most hasn't ever liked him and want him gone? Do you honestly expect him to stand up and go, "Yes the smarks are right, I see it now. I am lazy and shiftless and a horrible person that should be fired immediately." It should also be noted, WWF and WCW BOTH hired Vince Russo. Yeah because he made money for WWE, he got hired by WCW. Why this makes them crazy I don't know... TNA on the other hand. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest notJames Report post Posted June 13, 2003 If Flair had retired in 90 and put Sting over, Sting would have been a god in wrestling, but Flair is STILL around(and yes I am a Flair fan) and he never let Sting reach that truly top status. From what I understand, Flair wanted to put Sting over all along, but an ill-timed knee injury at the Clash of Champions X put the kibbosh on all plans to push Sting to the moon. After that, Sting had lost all his momentum, so much that even though he became champ and had all those great matches with Flair and Vader, he was still seen as an ineffectual champ. It didn't help that the bookers didn't know their asses from the elbows, but that's wCw for you. Back to the topic: I'm still amazed at how guys like Taker, who have been in the business for so long, can dismiss all the long-time fans simply because they take advantage of the Internet. Because really, we are the only ones left who will remain loyal to the product when the last few marginal fans have turned the channel. sure, they can hope for another resurgance of casual fan acceptance, but that might not come for a long time. At least we "experts" are still watching. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cynicalprofit Report post Posted June 13, 2003 It is management's job to keep their performers in order and make sure that powerplays are not tolerated, but there have been historically very few people that volunteer to do high profile jobs. And thats the big problem, they forget this is all fake. Hogan improving now would be quite a site considering he can barely walk and all. Muto stepped up his in ring work when he became older, and he worked a stiffer style then Hogan ever did. If its easy, why is there not a hugely popular and profitable wrestling organization in the world? Because Vince ran them into the ground, and most were run by business people and not wrestling fans, so they died because wrestling is its own little universe. . The fact is that there are had Smarks been in charge, Hulk Hogan would never have been put in the position to draw huge money for Vince. Oh Hogan always had a place, and he always will, he just should not be on the top of the card running around and fighting with another old man. Do you honestly expect him to stand up and go, "Yes the smarks are right, I see it now. I am lazy and shiftless and a horrible person that should be fired immediately." No, but he should see it as a reason to possibly step up a little and do something more entertaining then punch kick punch. And as a person, I cant say much about him other then, he apprently hates what I do. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest INXS Report post Posted June 13, 2003 I'm getting sick and tired of these bone heads like Undertaker and Triple H bashing the Internet. We know we're only 15% of the wrestling audience and these nimrods should be happy about that. The Internet is just like a tabloid for wrestling and only 15% of the fans are reading about the backstage rubbish. Pretty much every other form of entertainment has it 100X worst. The music industry and Hollywood have tabloid magazines, newspapers and TV shows all exploiting them. Pro sports even have their own tabloids of sorts. Hell, even politics is like a form of entertainment and they get exposed by tabloids and gossip. These wrestlers should wake up and see just how good they have it. I hope someday we do get a half hour TV show on E! or CNN dedicated to "Tabloids if Pro Wrestling." Then the business will really be exposed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TakerGirlLA Report post Posted June 13, 2003 Just the mere mention of Taker and his thoughts on Internet fans and you guys go nuts. Actually, any wrestler who says anything negative about Internet fans gets you guys frothing at the mouth. Am I a Taker fan - obviously. Do I agree with everything he says - no. Does everyone have a right to say what they want to about a product they spend time and money on - definitely. But for crying out loud, it's ENTERTAINMENT, get over it. Ever think you've been provoked into outrage for a reason? For every action there is a reaction. Bad publicity is better than no publicity and at some level that is what these boards are, getting the public to watch, rant, rave and buy the PPV's, merchandise and tickets. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 13, 2003 Bad Publicity isn't better than No Publicity. Just ask Michael Jackson. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rob Edwards Report post Posted June 13, 2003 and it isn't in this case either, if someone said a resteraunt sucked would you go and eat there? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 13, 2003 Fact is, the WWE needs all the fans they possibly can get - and alienating the growing internet fan population is just plain stupid. They should have come up with a company line about this already, but they haven't; which surprises me and it doesn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rob Edwards Report post Posted June 13, 2003 They do see, to have come up with a company line though RRR. It's just a totally counter productive one Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 13, 2003 LOL, I guess you're right. "The Internet is just full of a bunch of pimply 12 year old kids in their parents basement who haven't stepped into a ring in their entire lives and think they know everything there is to know about wrestling... therefore they are meaningless..." - WWE company line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rob Edwards Report post Posted June 13, 2003 I think it's even simpler than that "noone above 15 uses the net except JR, Lance Storm and Matt Hardy, hence we can slag them off all they want as they are not yet old enough to take control of the remote in their house and thus it will not hurt ratings" Idiots Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 13, 2003 I think it's simpler than that. "Internet Bad. Fans Bad. Money Bad. Condescension Good. Alienation Good. Annual Loss Good." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Rob Edwards Report post Posted June 13, 2003 They know what condencention means? Cos i could see them thinking "condensation" and trying to mist things up in the hope it'd improve ratings Raw is War - Ter Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 13, 2003 Vince: With the current boom in Superhero movies I think it's time to crown a new champion. HHH: Are you sure that's such a good idea Vince? I mean, I'm doing so well... This Nash feud is really taking off, I'm feelin it. Vince: Trip, Son... I've made up my mind. The new World Champion will be none-other-than... Aquaman! HHH: I can play that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cynicalprofit Report post Posted June 14, 2003 Why is guys the net love, never say anything about the net fans, cept for Jericho. But he had bad night and we forgive him. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 14, 2003 I haven't forgiven him. ...The Bastard. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cynicalprofit Report post Posted June 14, 2003 well if he makes goldberg do a *** match, you should. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheGame2705 Report post Posted June 15, 2003 And thats the big problem, they forget this is all fake. I don't know see what it has to do with being fake to be honest. Say you're mega over and you lose to a guy who you can't see any money making potential in and neither does management. If you lose and fans don't pay to see the guy who beat you then it's for nothing. All you've done is make fans remember that you lost to so-and-so and if they think worse of you after you lose, you lose money. How is that fake? Muto stepped up his in ring work when he became older, and he worked a stiffer style then Hogan ever did. Becoming stiffer is improving? Hmm if Undertaker busted someone's face up because he was "improving" would you approve? Because Vince ran them into the ground, and most were run by business people and not wrestling fans, so they died because wrestling is its own little universe. If you say it's easy and he says "if it's so easy how come there aren't tons of wrestling organizations" then what does Vince beating his competition have to do with it? If it's so easy, start a new one. Oh Hogan always had a place, and he always will, he just should not be on the top of the card running around and fighting with another old man. For some reason I think the place you want him in isn't the position that got him and the company popularity and money. No, but he should see it as a reason to possibly step up a little and do something more entertaining then punch kick punch. And as a person, I cant say much about him other then, he apprently hates what I do. Undertaker used to do LESS back in the day. He's doing more now. Whether you think his submissions are done poorly is another issue. He's doing more than punch kick punch kick. AND He hates what you do and that's wrong but you hate what he does and that's right? I also noticed you ignored my entire post as it answered some of your questions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 15, 2003 Nah, I'm officially against Jericho until he takes back his claims against the internet and smarks. That doesn't mean I don't think he's a good wrestler or deserves a push - I just don't "officially" like him Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ManKinnd Report post Posted June 15, 2003 Muto stepped up his in ring work when he became older, and he worked a stiffer style then Hogan ever did. Becoming stiffer is improving? Hmm if Undertaker busted someone's face up because he was "improving" would you approve? I think you misread him here. He's saying that a guy like Mutoh could improve his work when he was beat up more than Hogan was during his career, due to the stiffer style he worked. It's got nothing to do with becoming stiffer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cynicalprofit Report post Posted June 15, 2003 i ignored some of it because i was at work when i did it and couldnt spend a lot of time on it, and i dont really care to go through it all point by point because no matter what i say, im sure youll counter it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheGame2705 Report post Posted June 16, 2003 i ignored some of it because i was at work when i did it and couldnt spend a lot of time on it, and i dont really care to go through it all point by point because no matter what i say, im sure youll counter it. Gee someone admits to not wanting a debate. Sad. Also Mankkind you didn't explain it any better. All I'm getting is that as Muto grew older he improved by using a stiffer style which means being stiffer when older=improving. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest cynicalprofit Report post Posted June 16, 2003 its not that i dont want the debate, its just whats thepoint, i say the old guard needs to shut up lay down and go away, you disagree, either ways its just one opinions versus another, we aren't going to get anywhere with it. its just your beliefs against mine and i doubt either of us will budge(sp). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheGame2705 Report post Posted June 17, 2003 That means that you don't want to debate. Debates work best when there are two opposing sides by the way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
