At Long Last

[Guest Kingpk]

Most likely. 5 Cy Youngs, two 20K games and about two hundred-something wins is nothing to sneeze at.

 

Don't say he wouldn't because he didn't win a championship by that point, if that's what you're implying with that question.

[Guest Ghettoman]

No I'm asking if you seriously think he would of gone to the hall before coming to the Yankees.

 

Personally I don't think he would, because yes he was a great pitcher before and had the numbers to prove it, but it wasn't story book enough for the hall, and Clemens is no Mr Nice Guy so I don't see him getting in without big round numbers.

 

Better yet would he have gone to the hall if he never went to Toronto? I mean according to Duquette Clemens was over many, many years ago.

 

I just don't see him being the pitcher he is without his tenure in NY, and I think he'd agree.

[Guest alkeiper]

Before NY yes, because of the 5 Cy Youngs, MVP award, and 233 wins.

[Guest treble charged]

Not to mention 3000 strikeouts.

 

If he had retired at the end of '96, he'd probably be borderline HOF material, but his 2 years with the Jays turned his career around. If he called it quits after 1998, he'd definitely be in the Hall.

[NYU 0]

What a whiny bitch Clemens is. Just getting into the Hall of Fame should be enough of an honor. But now, he's going to boycott because they won't let him choose which team he should represent. He became famous in Boston. Earned most of his accomplishments in Boston. Why the fuck should he go in as a Yankee ? Fine, he won a few World Series championships, but that doesn't add up to his 5 Cy Youngs and MVP award he got in Boston. He won't show up to the ceremony because he can't choose what hat he wears ? I say, stick a Boston hat and a Yankees hat up his ass and send him on his way. Hell, don't even induct him if he doesn't respect what the Hall of Fame means and won't abide by their rules. How ridiculously ungrateful.

 

Fuck Clemens.

[Guest The Czech Republic]

Yeah, I agree from the facts stated that Clemens should go in with the Red Sox. And if Clemens puts up any further bitching, or any other player who thinks it's a miscarriage of justice for him to be represented in the Hall with the team he did the most with, then Cooperstown should just say "to hell with him."

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Yeah, I agree from the facts stated that Clemens should go in with the Red Sox. And if Clemens puts up any further bitching, or any other player who thinks it's a miscarriage of justice for him to be represented in the Hall with the team he did the most with, then Cooperstown should just say "to hell with him."

Totally agree. The HOF should stand firm with Clemens. He tied with Cy Young for wins all time for the Red Sox, won 3 Cy Youngs. For the Yankees he ranks like 40th in wins. This isn't like Carlton Fisk who spent an even amount of time with two teams, Clemens played a majority of his career with the Red Sox.

 

What's with the opportunity to continue why career. Big f'ing deal, 29 other owners would of loved to given you the opportunity to continue the keep playing. The Bluejays are the team who signed Clemens when alot of people didn't think he had anything left.

[Guest Some Guy]

Teh thing with Fisk is that he arguably should have gone in with a White Sox cap, if he should have gone in at all.

 

Clemens won 192 games in Boston and so far 67 with NY. Both his 20K games were in Boston, his last won was his last game with teh Sox actually.

 

To answer Ghettoman's question he was borderline HoF material when he left Boston "to be closer to his kids in Texas" and it was certainly "not about the money." He had 3 subpar years from 93-96 and seemed to be in the "twilight of his career." Then he signed with TO, got back in shape and pitched his heart out for two years. After that he was a sure fire Hall of famer. I was just thinking how badly he fucked over the Toronto fans. It was probably as bad if not worse than what he did to the Boston fans, at least he didn't demand a trade to a division rival.

 

Good for Roger. He has earned his wins, I just wish he'd hasve tried a little harder at the end in Boston to rack up a few more for us.

[Guest Ghettoman]

For one I don't think his numbers were hall material before toronto, and I don't think they were round enough and storybook enough for most peoples liking after Toronto, although I do agree he had the numbers to get in.

 

And most importantly what everyone is missing, he left Boston on bad terms, he was more or less told he didn't have it any more goodbye, if any of us were in his shoes we wouldn't want to be in a Sox cap, but because were not of course he's stupid and evil for wanting to go into the hall as a yankee.

 

How Roger wants to go in should be all that matters, it's his acheivements, it's his career, it's his accomplishments. To force him into being represented by an organization he wanted to get away from for as long as he remembered is unfair and stupid.

 

It's as if some people act like everyone will forget he was ever with the Redsox when it happens, its well known where he did his most damage, but the last memory people are going to have as Clemens will be as a Yankee, still playing great ball.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

And most importantly what everyone is missing, he left Boston on bad terms, he was more or less told he didn't have it any more goodbye, if any of us were in his shoes we wouldn't want to be in a Sox cap, but because were not of course he's stupid and evil for wanting to go into the hall as a yankee.

 

How Roger wants to go in should be all that matters, it's his acheivements, it's his career, it's his accomplishments. To force him into being represented by an organization he wanted to get away from for as long as he remembered is unfair and stupid.

 

It's as if some people act like everyone will forget he was ever with the Redsox when it happens, its well known where he did his most damage, but the last memory people are going to have as Clemens will be as a Yankee, still playing great ball.

The Hall of Fame has made it clear that they have the final say in what hat a player has on his plaque. Clemens opinion doesn't matter on the issue. The HOF wants a player to wear a cap that best represents his best days has a player.

 

Stop making this into a anti-Yankee thing. If Clemens career was the complete opposite. I'm guessing that 99% of the posters here would say Clemens should go in has a Yankee. The Yankees really have nothing to do with it. People just think Clemens had his best years in Boston, and should be inducted has a Red Sox.

[Guest Fallen Angel]

What a whiny bitch Clemens is. Just getting into the Hall of Fame should be enough of an honor. But now, he's going to boycott because they won't let him choose which team he should represent. He became famous in Boston. Earned most of his accomplishments in Boston. Why the fuck should he go in as a Yankee ? Fine, he won a few World Series championships, but that doesn't add up to his 5 Cy Youngs and MVP award he got in Boston. He won't show up to the ceremony because he can't choose what hat he wears ? I say, stick a Boston hat and a Yankees hat up his ass and send him on his way. Hell, don't even induct him if he doesn't respect what the Hall of Fame means and won't abide by their rules. How ridiculously ungrateful.

 

Fuck Clemens.

*polite applause*

 

What's the deal with Yankee pitchers being dicks, anyway? Is it somewhere in the contract? Someone ought to get David Wells drunk and take swings at his head. See if he can pull off another no-hitter.

[Guest alkeiper]

What's the deal with Yankee pitchers being dicks, anyway? Is it somewhere in the contract?

 

Where does that come from? Clemens and maybe Wells. Who else? Mussina? Pettitte? Weaver? Rivera? I've never heard anything bad about any of them.

[Guest Ghettoman]

Would anyone of you want to be immortalized as a part of a team you want nothing to do with?

[Guest Fallen Angel]

Hey, it's not my fault if a couple of rotten eggs spoiled the basket. You're absolutely right; that doesn't change my overall view of Yankee pitchers. Maybe the Yankee fans, rather than defending the players who aren't being dicks, should take issue with the ones who are.

[Guest Ghettoman]

He can be the biggest dick in the world if he gets the job done, which both Wells and Clemens do.

 

I don't see how Clemens choosing how he's immortalized comes down to being "a dick", but when he pitches the way he does and it doesn't interfere with the game why care?

[Guest Fallen Angel]

Hey, I think he should get to choose, I don't see the problem. But the rules are the rules, and if he gets all pissy over it, then fuck him. As for being a dick, I was more referring to Wells anyhow, and his comments specifically about being drunk whilst throwing a no-hitter. It doesn't take more than one iota of class not to put that in your book. The only thing I can think is that he found the story funny, in which case he's not mean, he's stupid, and even more classless than he comes off.

 

But hey, you're right, who cares as long as they get the job done. It's not like baseball's image has been hurting lately or anything.

[Guest Fallen Angel]

Just to clarify, I care because I love baseball, and wish it had more respected "ambassadors," so that it might regain some dignity.

[Guest alkeiper]

Hey, I think he should get to choose, I don't see the problem. But the rules are the rules, and if he gets all pissy over it, then fuck him. As for being a dick, I was more referring to Wells anyhow, and his comments specifically about being drunk whilst throwing a no-hitter. It doesn't take more than one iota of class not to put that in your book. The only thing I can think is that he found the story funny, in which case he's not mean, he's stupid, and even more classless than he comes off.

 

It cracks me up how people talk like he actually wrote the damn book. Goastwriters. Wells gives a short interview, and voila! Autobiography.

[NYU 0]

Why should Clemens be treated differently than everybody else ? Nobody else is able to choose what hat they want into the Hall of Fame. Recently, Gary Carter wanted to go into the Hall of Fame as a Met. He wound up going in as an Expo, but he knew he had to accept that fact. Just even getting into the Hall of Fame is such an honor that complaining "I'll skip the ceremony if I can't pick my hat." is ludicrous. I still say Clemens should be banned from the Hall of Fame for acting like such a crybaby in public. These are the rules of the Hall of Fame and you either accept them, or shut your damn mouth.

 

I mean, jeez, I'm a Mets fan and I don't proclaim the Gary Carter induction as a grand injustice against the Mets. The hall has rules, and no exceptions should be made for anybody - especially a nasty, headhunting, whiny pitcher such as Clemens.

[Guest Fallen Angel]

It cracks me up how people talk like he actually wrote the damn book. Goastwriters. Wells gives a short interview, and voila! Autobiography.

Wells no doubt got the chance to proofread the book, and if he didn't, he should have. It also isn't like Wells went around saying the story wasn't true, either. Unless a ghostwriter purposely made a story up to make David Wells look like an arrogant prick, I think Wells is quite at fault here. In the end, it's his name on the book, so he's held accountable. And hey, maybe he didn't care what the writers wrote. But if that's the case, he has no business releasing an autobiography. I'm glad you know how the writing process works and all, but next time try to come up with a little better defense than "goastwriters."