Green Day

June 19, 2003

and it's more fun then 98% of todays crap...

June 19, 2003

I've always thought Green Day simply wrote much better songs than most other bands of their ilk ( including older & far more revered bands than them IMO, I won't start up arguments naming them though). They got a lot of undeserved stick from the shallow & fickle breed of indie critics for breaking amazingly big with Dookie. Over recent years critics from places like Allmusic have given the band deserved and somewhat belated recognition for perfecting the style of pop-punk they play. They have always had a great combination of consistantly writing songs with great hooks and real character. Kerplunk is a great example of the really enjoyable, endearing and deceptively smartly performed albums Lookout records put out in the early 90's by bands like The Queers, Screeching Weasal and The Mr T Experience. All those bands played it very simple and we're even semi tribute bands to their 70's hero's but they could all come up with the melodies, pop smarts and personality to make themselves lovable bands. Although its maybe a fraction too long Nimrod is Green Day's most undervalued album in my view with Insomniac being the weakest but worth considering for about 5 really good tracks.

June 19, 2003

I agree. Nimrod got so much recognition for one song, "Good Riddance (Time of Your Life)", yet people would be hard-pressed to name any of the other great tunes on that album like "Worry Rock", "Scattered", and "King for a Day". It's probably their tightest album since they got signed to the majors.

As far as weakest albums are concerned, I would put Shenanigans over Insomniac any day. But that's just me.

And as far as the Ramones were concerned, their greatness stems from the fact that they got together with practically no musical talent among the original four members, but were able to captivate live audiences with their energy and no-nonsense stage presence. It was all about jumping around, letting loose, and saying no to the musical status quo, with their slickly produced and soulless arena rock. The fact that so many influential artists list the Ramones as a major influence speaks volumes of their contribution to reviving rock 'n' roll from its homogenized, bland corporate incarnation(s).

Besides, each song is about a minute and a half of pure, unadulterated fun. I mean, who can't help but stop and sing along whenever "Sheena is a Punk Rocker" starts playing?

... But she just couldn't stay... she had to break away... New York City really has it all... oh yeah-uh. oh yeah...

Edited June 19, 2003 by notJames

June 19, 2003

The Ramones' It's Alive should be required listening for anyone who doubts how great they were. A one hour set, 28 songs, and an absolutely captivated crowd. It's frickin' great. The Ramones are absolute pitch-perfect party music, from where I sit: witty, fast, singalongalicious, and full of great hooks and charm.

June 19, 2003

The Ramones are bad... just not as bad as the crap that is out there today. If being punk nowadays means playing really shitty, yeah, then these new bands are definitely punk.

and about AC/DC... Angus can play some killer solos, so ha.

June 19, 2003

You've got to look at what was happening musically when the Ramones were doing their thing. They were before the Sex Pistols, before the Clash, before Television, before the Talking Heads...they were one of the first real answers to stuff like Boston, Chicago, Peter Frampton, Styx, all the really overblown arena rock that was absolutely owning the airwaves. It's a huge, huge kick in the pants compared to what else was on the market.

And I also maintain that it's infinitely fun.

June 19, 2003

I really don't see how Green Day wrote songs that are that great. Lyrically, they remind me of Linkin Park, in that they have extremelely generic "emotional" lyrics that, if actually listened to, and made incredibly generic, so that they connect with more people, but don't actually say anything.

June 19, 2003

And yes, The Ramones have discovered the secret of life, as far as I can here.

June 19, 2003

I really don't see how Green Day wrote songs that are that great. Lyrically, they remind me of Linkin Park, in that they have extremelely generic "emotional" lyrics that, if actually listened to, and made incredibly generic, so that they connect with more people, but don't actually say anything.

but green day offset their stuff with a cool little tongue-in-cheek quality that's totally absent from linkin park. green day (at least early green day, haven't heard enough later green day to judge) didn't take themselves too seriously, but no linkin park song i've ever heard has anything resembling a sense of humor. i think green day were more about having fun than trying to send some deep kind of message.

June 19, 2003

Yeah, I didn't really mean to compare Green Day and Linkin Park, I just noticed the one similarity. I can't stand Linkin Park, but as stated before, I find at least one Green Day album to be highly enjoyable.

June 19, 2003

I really don't see how Green Day wrote songs that are that great. Lyrically, they remind me of Linkin Park, in that they have extremelely generic "emotional" lyrics that, if actually listened to, and made incredibly generic, so that they connect with more people, but don't actually say anything.

but green day offset their stuff with a cool little tongue-in-cheek quality that's totally absent from linkin park. green day (at least early green day, haven't heard enough later green day to judge) didn't take themselves too seriously, but no linkin park song i've ever heard has anything resembling a sense of humor. i think green day were more about having fun than trying to send some deep kind of message.

Just to support your lyrics claim

Green Day's First Single

"Longview"

Sit around and watch the tube but, nothing's on

Change the channels for an hour or two

Widdle my thumbs just for a bit

I'm sick of all the same old shit

In a house with unlocked doors

And I'm fucking lazy

Bite my lip and close my eyes

Take me away to paradise

I'm so damn bored I'm going blind!!!

And I smell like shit

Peel me off this velcro seat and get me moving

I sure as hell can't do it by myself

I'm feeling like a dong in heat

Barred indoors from the summer street

I locked the door to my own cell

And I lost the key

Bite my lip and close my eyes

Take me away to paradise

I'm so damn bored I'm going blind!!!

And I smell like shit

I got no motivation

Where is my motivation

No time for motivation

Smoking my inspiration

Sit around and watch the phone but no one's calling

Call me pathetic call me what you will

My mother says to get a job

But she don't like the one she's got

When masturbation's lost its fun

You're fucking breaking

Bite my lip and close my eyes

Take me away to paradise

I'm so damn bored I'm going blind

And loneliness has to suffice

Bit my lip and close my eyes

Slipping away to paradise

Some say, "Quit or I'll go blind"

But it's just a myth

and now

Linkin Park's first single

"One Step Closer"

cannot take this anymore

I'm saying everything I've said before

All these words they make no sense

I find bliss in ignorance

Less I hear the less you'll say

But you'll find that out anyway

Just like before...

Everything you say to me

Takes me one step closer to the edge

And I'm about to break

I need a little room to breathe

Cause I'm one step closer to the edge

And I'm about to break

I find the answers aren't so clear

Wish I could find a way to disappear

All these thoughts they make no sense

I find bliss in ignorance

Nothing seems to go away

Over and over again

Just like before...

Everything you say to me

Takes me one step closer to the edge

And I'm about to break

I need a little room to breathe

Cause I'm one step closer to the edge

And I'm about to break

Everything you say to me

Takes me one step closer to the edge

And I'm about to break

I need a little room to breathe

Cause I'm one step closer to the edge

And I'm about to.... break!

Shut up when i'm talking to you

Shut up, shut up, shut up

Shut up when i'm talking to you

Shut up, shut up, shut up

I’m about to break!

Everything you say to me

Takes me one step closer to the edge

And I'm about to break

I need a little room to breathe

Cause I'm one step closer to the edge

And I'm about to break

Everything you say to me

Takes me one step closer to the edge

And I'm about to break

I need a little room to breathe

Cause I'm one step closer to the edge

And I'm about to.... break!

Green Day=Funny bantering on a unconventional song topic

Linkin Park=Horrible 6th grader loser whining with horrible lyrics singing the same shit he said on the rest of the album...We get it...Mommy didn't buy you Nikes...

June 19, 2003

Off tangent, what-ever happened with The Offspring.

What I mean is after the success of Smash they released Ixnay on the Hombre which included "Far Away" which is a real change of mood, it's not goofy or funny at all. But then they release Americana with the funny for five minutes "Pretty Fly for a White Guy". Did people react negatively to Ixnay so they decided to go back to goofy fun songs?

June 19, 2003

I'm a HUGE Offspring fan. Their first 3 albums - Self-titled, Ignition & Smash are awesome, just awesome. They kinda moved to a slightly more serious mood with Ixnay but it still sold well and is a kick-ass album. If you ask me, Americana totally sucked, bar maybe one or two songs, but it made them some cash due to the ultra-marketability of Pretty Fly & Get A Job. Conspiracy of One, their latest, is a bit different again, it's more of a hybrid of the fun of Smash ( and the seriousness of Ixnay. I like it, but then again, I like all their stuff. There will, naturally, be a majority of people here who don't like them. They are mainstream after all. Can't be seen to approve of that kind of thing of course

June 19, 2003

How on earth could people seriously say Weezer's first album is better than Dookie? Trust me, I bought both in the same year and I can safely tell you the blue album is not all that amazing. Dookie seemed to go by too fast the first time but on a 2nd listen it was just a blow away CD.

The amusing thing is that during this time Offspring were thrown in with Green Day as being pop punk, but they had a much harder sound. I'd say Smash bitch slaps Dookie or Weezer.

June 19, 2003

My rankings of those three albums is question:

1. Weezer

2. Dookie

3. Smash

Weezer is (or were) just a really talented band with brilliant pop sensabilitys. Green Day are marginally talented and can write a catchy song every now and then. The Offspring are also marginally talented, but don't have the songwriting ability of the previoius two.

June 19, 2003

You've got to look at what was happening musically when the Ramones were doing their thing. They were before the Sex Pistols, before the Clash, before Television, before the Talking Heads...they were one of the first real answers to stuff like Boston, Chicago, Peter Frampton, Styx, all the really overblown arena rock that was absolutely owning the airwaves. It's a huge, huge kick in the pants compared to what else was on the market.

And I also maintain that it's infinitely fun.

There were other bands doing the "punk" thing before the Ramones: MC5, the Stooges, NY Dolls, just to name a few.

The Ramones are one of the bands that I understand why other people dig them so much, but I just don't. To be completely honest, I saw them twice and left during their set both times.

June 19, 2003

I'd say Smash bitch slaps Dookie or Weezer.

So did Ignition. "Jennifer Lost The War" is one of my favorite songs of all time. Anyone who doubts the Offspring's songwriting capability needs to check out their earlier work. I haven't been able to get into their newer stuff at all (I wish death on "Pretty Fly For A White Guy" for soiling part of my punk rock childhood), but their first two or three albums still rock.

K.

June 19, 2003

I really, really can't stand Jennifer Lost The War. It sounds like they had no idea what they were doing, which is most likely the truth.

June 19, 2003

Of course they didn't have a clue. They were a punk band at the time. That's what makes it so much fun, at least for me.

K.

June 19, 2003

I like Smash better then Dookie...but I like the Offspring better anyway

June 19, 2003

The Offspring were never "punk". "Punk" died when Sid Vicious did. And I never found untalented assholes fumbling their way through a poorly written song fun, but that's just me.

June 19, 2003

Well, I guess I should weigh in my two cents seeing as how Green Day was my favorite band for years. I don't deny that they were pop-punk (and never had...this was of course before pop-punk became a "dirty word", an "era" which I believe started with Blink 182), but as mentioned before, they had a great sense of humor about themselves, their subjects, tongue-in-cheek lyrics, great hooks and bouncy chords, and yet could evolve and be serious if desired (witness "J.A.R." from the Angus soundtrack, one of my favorite songs of theirs, or the "mature" cynicism present on Warning).

Another thing that set Green Day apart from the other bands of their ilk were their live shows. I've got a ton of their bootlegs, and they put on great concerts, in which they'd constantly mock themselves, their image, and their own lyrics (e.g. "I've heard it all before / But I'm a corporate whore / And an asshole and a user / la da da da da da da" is a frequent change in the live version of their hit "When I Come Around"), as well as pay tribute via teases and covers from their influences (such as The Ramones and Billy Idol, but also pop wonders like "Eye of the Tiger" and Cheap Trick). Unfortunately, as they became more popular, as with most popular old bands, their live set's become much more standard.

Yet at the same time, I just don't really listen to Green Day anymore. They're pretty much a dead band now, and even though whenever I listen to the songs they're still great, it's just something you grow out of I guess. I really think it's an aspect of the genre...who listens to pop-punk on a regular basis that's older than teenage or maybe college-age, except for the pioneering acts like The Ramones?

June 19, 2003

The Offspring were never "punk". "Punk" died when Sid Vicious did. And I never found untalented assholes fumbling their way through a poorly written song fun, but that's just me.

Now that's a load of bullshit and you know it.

I have yet to comphrend how some no talent junkie who didn't contribute jack shit to punk at all got to become such icon for the genre. His look wasn't original, he didn't even play on the Sex Pistol's actual album(studio guy stood in), he didn't help write any of the songs(their original bass player did).

If you want to define punk as a depressed junkie that self destructed why not Darby Crash of the Germs who was actually a very talented song writer that helped develop the L.A punk movement which successfully thrived long after the Sex Pistols bit the dust.

June 19, 2003

But why does it have to be the LA punk movement? Why can't it just be the LA rock movement? Oh, yeah, because any band with spiked hair and chains are automatically a punk band, I forgot.

And Sid Vicious pretty much became the icon of stupid punk kids everywhere, whether you like it or not. I, personally, think Sid was an asshole, but I digress.

June 19, 2003

Oh, and The Germs are so overrated it's not even funny.

June 19, 2003

"But why does it have to be the LA punk movement? Why can't it just be the LA rock movement? Oh, yeah, because any band with spiked hair and chains are automatically a punk band, I forgot. "

Why does it have to be called rock? Why not call it post blues or something? Why bother labeling any music?

Genre labeling is indeed a picky subject that really boils down to throwing bands together because they share similar characteristics rather it be song structure, gutiar tuning, influences, or what have you.

Alot of these rock bands that sprang up in L.A. in the late 70s and early 80s, tended to share similar characteristics, so they got thrown in the same sub genre, go figure.

"Oh, and The Germs are so overrated it's not even funny. "

Really, I wasn't even aware that the Germs were held in such a high regard by so many people. Probably these same stupid punk kids that are like everywhere, idolizing Sid Vicious. Seriously, the Germs aren't for everyone, and I can understand that.

June 19, 2003

who listens to pop-punk on a regular basis that's older than teenage or maybe college-age, except for the pioneering acts like The Ramones?

I do.

I think the 90's produced a lot of good albums by bands of that genre. Sure, there were a thousand and one useless bands we had to endure who aspired to make a Dookie size album but couldn't write a decent song to save their lives. As long as bands have their own distinct personality and can write with a smart pop sense to their sound then their albums can be enduringly rewarding. It doesn't take a genius to hear that a band like The Queers worship The Ramones or in pop rock terms that Teenage Fanclub are influenced by Big Star but both (especially Fanclub) write songs which bear their own individual stamp and subtleties (juvenile subtleties for The Queers). Several great pop rock albums were released in the 90's, Fountains Of Wayne's first album is just as good as Weezer's first album for example.

June 19, 2003

I always hear about what great songwriters the Germs were, but they were owned easily by the Dead Kennedys, Black Flag, X, Agent Orange, Fear, and Bad Religion, all from the same area/time period.

June 19, 2003

I always hear about what great songwriters the Germs were, but they were owned easily by the Dead Kennedys, Black Flag, X, Agent Orange, Fear, and Bad Religion, all from the same area/time period.

I agree with you there, buddy.

Overall, they were all better bands as well. Nice to see Agent Orange placed with the usual suspects, because they most definetly belong along side them. Don't forget about the Dickies, who kicked huge amounts of ass as well.

I still think Crash was a talented song writer, but yes, there were indeed better. I mentioned Darby Crash because if your gonna iconize a sucidial junkie like Sid Vicious who contributed shit, might as well pick one who was actually talented.

Edited June 20, 2003 by Coffin Surfer

June 20, 2003

The Offspring were never "punk". "Punk" died when Sid Vicious did. And I never found untalented assholes fumbling their way through a poorly written song fun, but that's just me.

Oh, wait, I forgot that punk had clearly defined boundaries.

'scuse me.

Oh, and Agent Orange is fucking awesome.

K.

Green Day

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