U.S. vs. Everyone

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

This is a big ass poll from the BBC done in cooperation with news networks in 9 other countries, including America.

 

it asks about what people think of Bush, American culture, economic development, how freaked are you that the US will shoot rockets at you, stuff like that. Pretty interesting really.

 

My favorite was when American people said they belive that France is more dangerous than the U.S.

 

luckily I have a shelter to guard against Intercontinental Crossiant Missile attacks.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

My favorite was when American people said they belive that France is more dangerous than the U.S.

That could mean France's insistence on putting up hurdle after hurdle leading up to the War with Iraq.

[Guest Goodear]

Huh, Isreal doesn't even like our policies on Isreal.

[Guest JMA]

That could mean France's insistence on putting up hurdle after hurdle leading up to the War with Iraq.

I really don't care about France putting up hurdles. It was their right to do so if they wished. Seeing as how Bush was going to go to war anyway he should've just skipped the whole UN thing.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

That could mean France's insistence on putting up hurdle after hurdle leading up to the War with Iraq.

I really don't care about France putting up hurdles. It was their right to do so if they wished. Seeing as how Bush was going to go to war anyway he should've just skipped the whole UN thing.

I agree 100%. I think we would of found WMD's by know if that would of happened.

[Guest JMA]

I agree 100%. I think we would of found WMD's by know if that would of happened.

Maybe and maybe not. I still don't think Iraq had WMDs (I could be wrong, though). I don't, however, feel it is right to blame France though. They were just doing what they thought was in their best interest (something every country should do, IMO).

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

AIDS policy? Cmon. Is it really that hard for Jordan to say anything NICE about the US? France too?

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

I did like that Jordan hated EVERYTHING about us. that was pretty funny.

 

I also like how 90% of americans thought people from other countries would want to live here, and it ended up at like 30-something.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

I did like that Jordan hated EVERYTHING about us. that was pretty funny.

They do want our Democratic Institutions pretty bad, though:

 

 

Also, nearly 3/4ths of France thinks Al Qaeda is more dangerous than the US. That means something, I think.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

It is comforting that everyone (except Jordan, but for obvious reasons) said that Al Queda is as or more of a threat than we are.

[Guest Vyce]

I agree 100%. I think we would of found WMD's by know if that would of happened.

Maybe and maybe not. I still don't think Iraq had WMDs (I could be wrong, though). I don't, however, feel it is right to blame France though. They were just doing what they thought was in their best interest (something every country should do, IMO).

Most of the other countries that opposed us merely did so with criticisms and a promise that they would not vote for our resolution.

 

France, however, cock-blocked us all the way.

 

I suppose you would say that was their "right", but now it's ours to fuck them over in every way possible in retaliation.

[Guest JMA]

Most of the other countries that opposed us merely did so with criticisms and a promise that they would not vote for our resolution.

 

France, however, cock-blocked us all the way.

 

I suppose you would say that was their "right", but now it's ours to fuck them over in every way possible in retaliation.

If we didn't wanna get cock-blocked we shouldn't have gone to the UN in the first place. As far as I'm concerned, anything done to stop other nations in the UN is fair. If a country doesn't like it, they can leave (which we may do). All I know is I'm not going to jump on the hate bandwagon because France did what they thought was right. I sure as hell am not gonna boycott anything from France.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

The French opposed us not for principle but for greed. The only principle involved in their petty UN "cock-blocking" was the principle that anti-American sentiment wins elections in Europe. They opposed the elimination of a murderous madman for the most selfish and trivial reasons imaginable, and for their immorality and their amorality I will boycott their products, and I shall do so without a single regret.

[Guest JMA]

They opposed the elimination of a murderous madman for the most selfish and trivial reasons imaginable, and for their immorality and their amorality I will boycott their products, and I shall do so without a single regret.

Does this include boycotting the Statue of Liberty? Not trying to be smarmy, just a question.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

They opposed the elimination of a murderous madman for the most selfish and trivial reasons imaginable

 

You make it sound as if the U.S. has never done that.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Does this include boycotting the Statue of Liberty? Not trying to be smarmy, just a question.

 

No, Mr Smarmypants, that's ours now.

 

They opposed the elimination of a murderous madman for the most selfish and trivial reasons imaginable

You make it sound as if the U.S. has never done that.

Defeating Communism was neither selfish nor trivial.

[Guest JMA]

 

No, Mr Smarmypants, that's ours now.

But it WAS a gift from France. And I'm glad they did give it to us (seeing as how I like huge statues of patriotic women).

 

Anyways, I can see how someone could hate the goverment of France, but I don't see how they could hate the ordinary folks there. I, for one, wouldn't hold it against someone if they were French. I would judge them on their own merits, as an individual. I'm just not comfortable with people saying "There are no good people in France."

[Guest Cancer Marney]

If a given individual is a decent person who doesn't spout anti-American nonsense and he happens to be French, why do you think I would have a problem with him? I only have a problem with the French as the French. Not as individuals. And since a large part of the French economy as a whole is based on exports, I don't think there's anything unreasonable about boycotting French products in order to harm the French economy. This has nothing to do with decent people who may or may not be French. It is directly actuated by contempt for the actions of their government, which have been strongly supported by the vast majority of their citizens, and thus by contempt for the country as a whole. No one's ever said that there are no good people in France.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Well, you're at least being sane in your boycott. The Freedom Fries shit is catching on so fast that the Paris hotel in Las Vegas keeps sending me aburdly low room rates. Appearantly everyone is staying elsewhere for OMG FRENCH even though it's owned by a Hilton spin-off. Like they're going to tear the entire place up and change theme for the French backlash.

 

I think that more importantly, this shows just how weird it is that we have a free trade agreement with Jordan (We only have free trade agreements with six total countries.)

[Guest JMA]

The French opposed us not for principle but for greed. The only principle involved in their petty UN "cock-blocking" was the principle that anti-American sentiment wins elections in Europe.

If it's not too much trouble, would you mind elaborating on how you think the French goverment was greedy? Did their blocking us have something to do with money, or do you mean a differant kind of greed? Also, how would you improve the French goverment?

[Guest Cancer Marney]

French and Russian oil and gas contracts signed with the Saddam Hussein regime in Iraq "will not be honored," Kurdish Prime Minister Barhim Salih said in Washington Friday, just before a series of high-level meetings with Bush administration officials.

"A new Iraqi government should not honor any of these contracts, signed against the interests of the Iraqi people. The new Iraqi government should respect those who stood by us, and not those who stood beside the dictator," Salih added.

- Newsmax article

 

Before the war, companies from France, Russia, China and other countries have lined up development deals with the Iraqi government worth as much as $20 billion.

French oil giant TotalFinaElf, which has contracts worth up to $4 billion to develop Iraq's Majnoon oil field, has said it expects that contract to be honored.

Other French companies - such as telecommunications giant Alcatel, engineering group Alstom, and carmakers Renault and Peugeot - are also anxious to pick up the business they lost during the war.

- CNN story

 

-----

 

As you can see, for anyone to claim that OUR motives were "all about oil" is simply comical.

And how would I improve the French government? Well, I think a few gallons - oh sorry, litres of napalm would work wonders. It'd be a good start, anyway.

[Guest Anorak]

Where was the key 'Does the dumbing down of BBC foreign affairs coverage make you ashamed to be British' poll? I wanted to vote in that one.

[Guest Hogan Made Wrestling]

 

I think Microsoft over anything else. Surprised that didn't come up given how important they are to the modern US economy and lifestyle.

[Guest JMA]

And how would I improve the French government? Well, I think a few gallons - oh sorry, litres of napalm would work wonders. It'd be a good start, anyway.

I'll assume you were joking about the napalm (correct me if I'm wrong). Assuming you were not serious, how would you improve their goerment?

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

While it may be fair to say that the French government was influenced by money, it's unfair to tar the French people with the same brush.

Don't forget, it Europe this war was widely seen as an American war, with companies wanting Iraqi oil and Bush wanting to finish off his dad's work. That's why so many over here were opposed to this war, and why the French government could say they were sticking up for their people who believed war was wrong.

 

Also, it's now been proved. Coke>Pepsi

[Guest Vyce]

Most of the other countries that opposed us merely did so with criticisms and a promise that they would not vote for our resolution.

 

France, however, cock-blocked us all the way.

 

I suppose you would say that was their "right", but now it's ours to fuck them over in every way possible in retaliation.

If we didn't wanna get cock-blocked we shouldn't have gone to the UN in the first place

True. Going to the U.N. was essentially our way of allowing them to save face, but it backfired on us.

 

All I know is I'm not going to jump on the hate bandwagon because France did what they thought was right. I sure as hell am not gonna boycott anything from France.

 

Marney explained better than I could at the rather sinister and duplicitious reasons why France sided against us (I'd also postulate that another reason is because they want to once again gain power on the world scene, and a good - and quick - way to do that in principle is to lead the anti-American bandwagon).

 

I personally am rather happy with the way the boycott has progressed. It's nothing huge, mind you, but at the least tourism revenues are down in France, and that does bring a smile to my face.

[Guest JMA]

I just wonder why boycotters still go to the Statue of Liberty now. After all, it may be ours now but it came from the "evil" French. But I guess it's hard to boycott a slice of Americana. It might make me respect the boycott more if someone actually did boycott the Statue. It would show a dedication to one's beliefs.

[Guest hardyz1]

I just wonder why boycotters still go to the Statue of Liberty now. After all, it may be ours now but it came from the "evil" French. But I guess it's hard to boycott a slice of Americana. It might make me respect the boycott more if someone actually did boycott the Statue. It would show a dedication to one's beliefs.

No, that's idiotic. They gave it to us as a gift. They didn't sell it to us. They don't export the Statue of Liberty every year and make money off it. Boycotting it would be incredibly stupid. And, no offense, but you are stupid for suggesting it.

[Guest Boubba]

A hello from France to all the members of the SmartMarks forum.

I just had to throw myself into the argument, to ask a couple of questions.

 

I saw someone using the word retaliation. For what ? Standing our ground ? Defending our own interests.

 

Someone brought up that we supported our government actions. We diid indeed follow our leaders, but the people did it for a whole different reason than they did.

 

French government has probably undertaken those actiosn for the very reasons that you mentioned : A will to regain some influence on the world scene and a will to protect business agreements that were elaborated long before this war.

We (and bear in my mind that when I say we, I'm trying to give you the feelings and opinions of the vast majority of the french people at the time )thought that we did not want the USA to go in Irak ALL BY THEMSELVES. Not one french person (except probably a couple of lunatics) ever said Saddam should not be brought down. We just did not want you to invad a country just because you decided to ( therefore mirroring what happened in the first Gulf War when Irak invaded a sovereign country with no valid reasons whatsoever and UN had to put them back in line). That is the way people felt about this war.

 

Now why boycott ? Do we have to hold a grudge each and every time our paths and interests crossed ? I don't think so . Damn, if you thought we screwed over, I can name a whole lot of reasons why we should express those same feelings towards you. Do we ? No. Should we ? No.

 

I'm not denying that we have quite a bunch of obnoxious xenophobiac people that would spoil the visit you might ( or have ) blessed our country with. But I can find quite the same amount of morons in every country. The thing is that we parked and display them in one place, Paris, that's why many of you stumbled upon them.

 

Voilà, I just wanted to give you the other side of the story.

(Oh and don't take this for a whiny request to not boycott french products. Aside from one or two small companies, the boycott has been insignificant. I just wanted to get the recors straight and that no bad blood would remain between my country and the only country in the world I'd love to live in, aside from mine).

[Guest Cancer Marney]

Not one french person (except probably a couple of lunatics) ever said Saddam should not be brought down.

False. In an April poll published in The Guardian as well as Le Monde and countless other papers, 78% disapproved of Operation Iraqi Freedom, and 33% wanted Saddam Hussein to win the war. The 53% who "really wished for" or "preferred" an allied victory are sometimes touted as proof of French support. Support? You were given a choice between supporting the leader of the free world and supporting a MASS MURDERER and a TERRORIST. The fact that you even had to think about the choice is appalling. And the fact that a THIRD of your citizens chose to support the terrorist speaks volumes about your moral degeneracy.

 

A will to regain some influence on the world scene

Ever thought of earning it?

 

and a will to protect business agreements that were elaborated long before this war.

Now we get to the meat of it. As demonstrated by the links included in my last post, your business agreements, your oil contracts, were made with a bloodthirsty power-mad dictator at the expense of his people. You wanted to protect those exploitative contracts after his murderous regime was overthrown - as you knew it would be, by better people than you - and you didn't bat an eye at the fact that for every moment you hemmed, hawed, insulted, obfuscated, and outright obstructed us, another innocent Iraqi starved, was tortured, or shot by Saddam Hussein's evil thugs. We've uncovered tens of thousands of bodies buried in mass graves. Iraqis can speak freely about the torture chambers and the rape rooms and the chemical weapon tests and the summary executions for the first time in decades. It will take as many decades or more simply to catalogue Saddam Hussein's atrocities. Even then countless Iraqis will never know just what happened to their siblings, their parents, their children, wives, and husbands. Jesus wept! - any reasonable person would be sickened by the sheer amount of death and the magnitude of cruelty the Iraqi people have suffered; any reasonable person would get down on his knees and thank God that there's at least one nation in the world willing and able to put an end to these horrors somewhere in the world. But you? You rationalise your inaction. You excuse your obstruction. You JUSTIFY your deals with evil.

 

 

 

And you don't even have the good grace to be ashamed of yourselves.