Top rapper poll from 1993

[Guest Doyo]

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[Guest godthedog]

i don't think it's accurate to generalize about 2pac like that, cause i remember he was over HUGE around the 'me against the world'/'all eyez on me' time.

[Guest Red Hot Thumbtack In The Eye]

The D.O.C wasn't number one. Epochs on thee and -10 for the shitty rap fans you asked.

[Guest Ripper]

1993...was there anything out by Pac besides 2-pacalypse now?

[B. Brian Brunzell 0]

1993...was there anything out by Pac besides 2-pacalypse now?

Two words: The Chronic.

[Guest Ripper]

He wasn't on the Chronic..

 

I'm just saying, of course he wouldn't be on the top of anyones best rapper list when his two best albums All Eyes on Me and Me against the World hadn't even been released yet.

 

Shit, I mean look at where Nas ranked. he ain't dead, but he is considered one of the best ever now...even if he has never realeased a album as good as Illmatic in 92.

[B. Brian Brunzell 0]

I just realized that I read your first post wrong, Ripper. I thought you asked if there was anything else out in '93. I'm such an idiot.

 

Q-Tip comes in 4th back in the day. Where do you think the kids would put him now?

[Guest godthedog]

i think 'strictly' was out in 93 (in regards to 2pac).

 

and 'illmatic' didn't come out till 1994.

[Guest Ripper]

i think 'strictly' was out in 93 (in regards to 2pac).

 

and 'illmatic' didn't come out till 1994.

Are you sure...I could've sworn it was out in 92-93...

[Guest godthedog]

Illmatic [EXPLICIT LYRICS] Original Release Date: April 19, 1994

[Guest justsoyouknow]

Imagine

if Ice T or Kool G Rap had been murdered instead of Pac; would they be getting all the love now

instead?

They absolutely would....it's kinda like how if Eddie Vedder had blown his head off, he'd be this huge, influential grunge rocker that everyone creams over.

[Guest Edwin MacPhisto]

In response to the Q-Tip question: I don't know where he'd place. Probably nowhere near #4. He's been silent for years, especially since he shelved Kamaal the Abstract. Which is a shame: he's one of my favorites, and I wish he was still doing high-profile stuff.

 

I find it really amusing that even Sir Mix-a-Lot is above 2pac and Nas. How times change.

[Guest Ripper]

Imagine

if Ice T or Kool G Rap had been murdered instead of Pac; would they be getting all the love now

instead?

They absolutely would....it's kinda like how if Eddie Vedder had blown his head off, he'd be this huge, influential grunge rocker that everyone creams over.

Bullshit. Tupac was better at it than Ice- T and Kool G Rap never had anything as emotionally deep as the stuff Tupac came out with. As you will notice, it was the rappers with the more emotionally deep lyrics are the ones that are considered the best. Keep in mind, not only did Pac have 5 official albums, there are like 10 underground albums and 3 of those R U still Down type releases. He has a HUGE body of work that can be picked through and critiqued and is still regarded as the best.

 

And the fact that Sir Mix-A-lot was rated higher than Nas and Pac...I mean seriously, how many REAL hip-hop fans could there have been on the Internet in 1993.

[Guest Choken One]

It's proven fact...If you die during your career...You're "MADE".

[Guest godthedog]

which is why those blind melon albums are just flying off the shelves. i hear a "shannen hoon: unreleased demos" 2-cd set has been in the works for years, cause the demand has been so high since he died.

[Guest Choken One]

That doesn't mean your ALBUM is selling but ya get played as this Great guy the world will miss...

 

In reality...Cobain was already dead as Nirvana wasn't going to last much longer and killin himeself was the ultimate PR move...

 

Not saying that was why he did it...but death is the ultimate pr move...

 

 

Look at Luther Vandross last week...On his deathbd seriously ILL and he hits #1 while Metallica and Radiohead dont

[Guest godthedog]

nirvana was already the biggest rock band in the world by that time. if nirvana wasn't going to be around much longer, it would've self-destructed because of cobain's personal problems.

 

would cobain be revered as a godlike legend if he was still alive? it depends. if the band had broken up in 94, probably not. but they were steadily improving as a band up until late 93 when the shit hit the fan, and if cobain had gotten himself together they probably would've kept making better music, topping or at least keeping on par with 'in utero' and continuing to expand their sound. so it isn't hard to imagine them still holding a lofty place in the rock hierarchy if he hadn't died.

[Guest Ripper]

Hey!!! Leave Luther Vandross out of this. He sold more because he is god with a fluctuating weight. Luther is DA MAN.

 

Now, I would have to agree with Curt not being as praised had he lived. Mostly because Nirvanas body of work wasn't large enough for them to fuck up yet. But a guy like Tupac who was 5 albums in when he died and still hadn't went to shit was already being called one of the best ever, as was Biggie. When they died, it did prevent them from coming out with something weak, but they were called great before.

 

If Paul McCartney died tommorrow, his death wouldn't be making his career, as he is already regarded as one of the great song writers of the past 50 years. I never heard THAT much praise for Nirvana when Cobain was still around (they were very popular, but weren't unanimously praised the way they were after Cobain's death."

[Guest godthedog]

one of the senior editors at rolling stone called cobain the john lennon of the 90s before his death.

[Guest Vitamin X]

I'd say that's fairly accurate.

 

oh, and Eddie Vedder has said it himself he styles himself after Kurt Cobain, so that's kind of a moot point made up there.

[Guest Doyo]

i don't think it's accurate to generalize about 2pac like that, cause i remember he was over HUGE around the 'me against the world'/'all eyez on me' time.

 

Yeah, he would have made the top ten if the poll was conducted around then.

But the fact is this - he had sold 5 million albums when he died and a lot of that

was because of all the publicity he got because of his run-ins with the law.

I believe Snoop's first album alone had sold more than that. Since Pac's death he has sold

30 million albums.

 

Of course it is not all about album sales, but I don't remember any die hard rap fans or

music journalists calling Pac the best before he died. Now you get all these people saying

that he was the greatest of all time. He was never considered the best of his time period,

so how can he be the best ever? A good argument can be made that he was the best,

but my point is that nobody was saying that before he died.

 

He was always in someone else's shadow. First he was in the background of Digital

Underground. Then his first two albums barely got any notice. "Me Against The World" comes

out in 1995 and he starts to get some respect, but a year before some new leaders

had emerged and raised the bar. While 2Pac's ballad "Dear Mama" was getting airplay

for MTV masses, diehard hiphop heads were still preferring the gritty Wu Tang and Nas albums

from the year before. Biggie was the new commercial sales king and in fact when Pac died,

Biggie's one album alone would have around the same 5 million amount sold that all of

Pac's albums combined did. Pac then signs with Death Row, putting himself into the shadow

of Snoop and Dre. "All Eyez On Me" gets released and Pac's career starts to really take off,

but then comes his tragic death and he is instantly a legend, which causes his career to greatly

take off. His death froze him in time at the peak of his career. He can never be thought of as

anything worse. Imagine if 2Pac was around today dancing in videos with people like Pharrell

Williams and JLo.

 

And the fact that Sir Mix-A-lot was rated higher than Nas and Pac...I mean seriously, how many REAL hip-hop fans could there have been on the Internet in 1993.

 

Some crazy fan must have given a first place vote to Sir Mix-A-Lot. Actually some of his stuff

is decent compared to "Baby Got Back". It has been pointed out 3 times already that Nas did

not have any albums out when this list was compiled. As for "REAL" fans, look at the list again,

there is no Vanilla Ice or MC Hammer but there are a whole lot of people that did not get

played on MTV or radio.

 

Now, I would have to agree with Curt not being as praised had he lived. Mostly because Nirvanas body of work wasn't large enough for them to fuck up yet. But a guy like Tupac who was 5 albums in when he died

 

If you count Incesticide and Unplugged, then Nirvana had five albums. I remember Pearl Jam

and Nirvana being equal in praise. Now of course Nirvana gets way more praise.

 

Q-Tip went after the pop music fans with his solo album and messed up his career.

[Guest Shanghai Kid]

Doyo, All Eyez on Me sold 5 million copies while Pac was alive. After All Eyez on Me Pac quickly became the #1 artist on Death Row. Really Pac sold about 8 or 9 million while he was alive.

 

 

Besides, by 1993 he had only released 2pacalypse Now, which is a great political album. Strictly came out in 93, but that album never gets any respect. Really his peak was 3 classics in a row, MATW, AEOM, 7DT. Anybody that has 3 classics in a row is going to be considered the best, dead or alive. Get your facts straight.

[Guest La Parka Es Mi Papa]

7 Day Theory, a classic? I'd dispute that statement.

[Guest Dangerous A]

I dispute 7 Day Theory as classic as well.

 

I think 2Pacylypse Now is underrated. Strictly 4 My Niggaz only has about 4-5 listenable tracks. MATW and AEOM I feel are classics. 7 Day was like the rubbish that wasn't good enough to make All Eyez peppered with some dis tracks.

 

Another thing to dispel about record sales. Tupac's AEOM album is considered his most sucessful with 5-6 million sold. You do know that because it is a double album the record company gets cred for 2 albums sold, not 1. So if you combine it, it really only sold 2.5-3. Same with Biggie's Life after Death album.

[Guest Doyo]

Doyo, All Eyez on Me sold 5 million copies while Pac was alive. After All Eyez on Me Pac quickly became the #1 artist on Death Row. Really Pac sold about 8 or 9 million while he was alive.

 

My figure is from columns and interviews that Chuck D has done. Chuck is always talking about

how the music industry exploits victims of real violence to sell records. 50 Cent's record label

is very happy to promote the fact that he has been shot and wears a bulletproof vest.

 

Besides, by 1993 he had only released 2pacalypse Now, which is a great political album. Strictly came out in 93, but that album never gets any respect. Really his peak was 3 classics in a row, MATW, AEOM, 7DT. Anybody that has 3 classics in a row is going to be considered the best, dead or alive. Get your facts straight.

 

I would call Public Enemy's first 4, Ice T's 2-4, Tribe Called Quest's 1-3, Boogie Down Production's

1-3, Run DMC's 1-3 and even the Beastie Boys 1-3 all classics.

 

7DT has been shit upon by many. Here is the All Music Guide's review of the album:

 

"Everything about The Don Killuminati: The 7 Day Theory smacks of exploitation. Released only eight weeks after 2Pac Shakur died from gunshot wounds, Death Row released this posthumous album under the name of Makaveli, a pseudonym derived from the Italian politician Niccolo Machiaveli, who faked his own death and reappeared seven days later to take revenge on his enemies. Naturally, the appearance of The Don Killuminati so shortly after 2Pac's death led many conspiracy theorists to surmise the rapper was still alive, but it was all part of a calculated marketing strategy by Death Row -- the label needed something to sustain interest in the album, since the music on the album is so shoddy. All Eyez on Me proved that 2Pac was continuing to grow as a musician and a human being, but The Don Killuminati erases that image by concentrating on nothing but tired G-funk beats and tiring, back-biting East Coast/West Coast rivalries. 2Pac himself sounds uninterested in the music, which makes the conventional, unimaginative music all the more listless. If he had survived to complete The Don Killuminati, it is possible that the record could have become something worthwhile, but the overall quality of the material suggests that the album would have been a disappointment no matter what circumstances it appeared under. - Rating 1.5 out of 5"

[Guest ant_7000]

I thought 7DT was ok, classic? no. I thought Me Against the World was his best album.

[Guest La Parka Es Mi Papa]

I think Tupac's overrated, but All Eyez On Me is his best, in my opinion. And it may be just me, but PE's first album, Yo! Bum Rush The Show, isn't that good.

[Guest Shanghai Kid]

Please, All Eyez on me is overrated, DK7 is considered a classic by many in the hip hop community. DK7 is way more quality than All Eyez on Me. Hell, Better Dayz was better than Blueprint 2.

[Guest Shanghai Kid]

All Musics Guide? Why not look for a review that deals primary with Rap. Thats a horrible review, it talks about exploitation but it never addresses whats wrong with the album. PAC SOUNDS UNINTERESTED? That's the dumbest thing i've ever read, go and listen to the cd yourself. Pac puts more emotion into this album than any other.

 

Why not go to www.allhiphop.com or www.rapreviews.com and read their review for it.

 

Here's a review from www.y2hiphop.com

 

-

 

Tupac Shakur- the name means a whole lot these days. It carries more weight than almost any other Hip-Hop artist in history. He is looked at in so many different ways it is tough to actually grasp his legacy or figure out what to think of him. But one thing is for sure, while he was with us, 2pac was one of the most influential rappers in the history of the game.

 

Before his death, 2pac along with his fellow outlaw members put together different personas or alias from various historical figures, thus spawning the birth of Makaveli. This new persona 2pac displayed characterized a different side of 2pac, a side many emcees did not want to cross paths with. This new Makaveli side of Pac brought anger, vengeance, raw energy and a thug life image that was looked at as so real, no one would be able to duplicate it, even years after his death. After his tragic death, Deathrow decided to release 2pac's first posthumous album, entitled, Makaveli "The 7 Day Theory"

 

The first thing you notice about the album is 2pac's aggressive and raw energy on the mic. Not to mention the emotion puts into every song. Most of the album features an angry Pac, going at almost every emcee imaginable, from Biggie, Dr. Dre, Lil' Kim, Puffy, Jay-z to Nas. Pac never, not even for one second, holds back. He speaks his mind constantly and almost without thinking. The most vicious of these tracks being "Against All Odds", where 2pac states, "This be the realest shit I ever wrote". Pac rips into his enemy's, especially Nas, who gets the bad end of this track. "Hey Nas, your whole damn style is bitten. You heard my melody, read about my life in the papers. All my run-ins with authorities, felonious capers. Now you wanna live my life, so what's the answer Nas? Niggas that don't rhyme right, you've seen too many movies. Load em up against the wall, close his eyes Since you lie you die, Goodbye". "Bomb First (My Second Reply)" is another emotional charged track. 2pac along with his crew, Tha Outlawz, blaze the track, viciously ripping into all oncoming enemies. "I'm a Bad Boy killa, Jay-Z die too. Looking out for Mobb Deep, nigga when I find you. Weak motherfuckers don't deserve to breathe. How many niggaz down to die for me".

 

Even though tracks like these stand out the most, the whole album isn't dedicated to such circumstances. The classic "Hailmary" is an eerie produced track that sends chills down your spine upon listening. The playa anthem "Toss It Up" featuring Kci and JoJo is another phenomenal performance and acts as a sequel to "How Do You Want It". Speaking of sequels, the Cali anthem "To Live And Die In LA" is somewhat of a sequel to the classic "California Love", and the track delivers the same sort of feel as the original. The production end of the album is truly phenomenal. 2pac doesn't gather a bunch of big named producers. Instead he sticks with the depths of the unknown, such as, QDIII, Darryl Harper and Hurt-M-Bad. But don't let the names fool you, the beats on the album are truly classics. They are beautifully put together and fit each track perfectly. Whether its rough and rugged like the religiously enthused "Blasphemy" and the gun toting tale "Me and My Girlfriend", or smooth and laid back such as "Just Like Daddy".

 

2pac is always at his best when he opens up and shows us the deeper side of himself. 2pac has always had a knack for making deep, heartfelt songs that engulf you with spirit and emotion. Tracks like "Krazy" and "Hold Ya Head" are perfect examples. "Krazy" finds 2pac reminiscing and looking at his constant struggle whit his hectic life. Bad Azz drops by and rip the mic with his verse. "God help me out here, cause I'm possessed. I need the root of all evil for my stress. Cause moneys like a strong prescription drug; it's got me addicted to the pleasure and the pain it inflicted. Something bout the paper wit the pictures of the president's, head Damn, it's like a motherfuckin plague that spread". "Hold Ya Head" is a dedication for all the people incarcerated. You can just feel what 2pac is conveying throughout the track. His words penetrate and put a surreal feeling to it. Plain and simple, whether you hated or loved 2pac, you cannot deny that he simply made tracks that you could feel. He put his heart and soul into every track.

 

What makes "The 7 Day Theory" great isn't 2pac's lyrics, or his flow, it is how he conveys his message across to the listener. You cannot manufacture such energy and charisma on the mic. While 2pac was never the greatest lyricist, he made up for that with his presence. Is "The 7 Day Theory" a perfect album? Yes, and No! While it's hard to put your finger on it, something lacks from making this album truly perfect. Nevertheless, Makaveli "The 7 Day Theory" is a classic album. No matter what, when you look back at 2pac's career or the time period this album was released in, this album will standout as a centerpiece and a landmark. This album is a prime example of 2pac's best work, and it's a shame the album had to be released under the pending circumstances. It's clear that 2pac will never be forgotten and will always be remembered as a man who spoke his mind and came straight from the heart.

 

4.75 out of 5

 

By the way Dangerous, All Eyez on me has sold 10 million, which is really like 5. Death Row just hasn't certified it.

[Guest Doyo]

Their main criticism of the album was "nothing but tired G-funk beats and tiring, back-biting

East Coast/West Coast rivalries" Just because 2pac gets angry and insults a bunch of people

doesn't mean it is a great album.

 

As for the site's you mentioned... allhiphop.com might claim to be the "the world's most

dangerous site" but they can't even let you go through reviews by artist, you have to search

month by month.

 

I'm well aware of rapreviews.com and the guy who runs it, Steve "Flash" Juon, posted on

the alt.rap newsgroup in 1993 and may have even voted in the poll. He gave 7DT a 7.5 out

of 10, meaning above average but nothing classic. He hands out 9s and 10s all the time.

In fact in just the past two weeks alone they have reviewed 11 albums and 5 of them were

given better than a 7.5. So you are claiming 7DT as one of the best albums ever, yet one

of your favorite review sites claims that 5 albums from the past few weeks are better.

 

As for y2hiphop.com - most of the reviews there are of albums from the past 6 years or so.

They have reviewed people like Puff Daddy but not any Public Enemy, Boogie Down Productions

or Run DMC. They gave 7DT a 4.75 and The Chronic a 4.5. I did notice that they gave the first 3

Tribe Called Quest albums all perfect 5.

 

Anyway, we all got opinions and can like whatever we want. My original point was that there

were few people compared to now praising 2pac so much before he died.