Senate Majority Leader Frist Supports Amendment...

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

Ruh roh. Here we go again.

 

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...ess_marriage_dc

[Guest EricMM]

"I very much feel that marriage is a sacrament, and that sacrament should extend and can extend to that legal entity of a union between, what is traditionally in our Western values has been defined, as between a man and a woman," said Frist, of Tennessee. "So I would support the amendment."

By Peter Kaplan (Reuters)

 

I think this says it all. I believe in the seperation of church and state, and as long as marriage confers legal benefits and rights, it should have nothing to do with a christian sacrament. If that means the govt not recognizing christian marriages as such, so be it. It's just not right.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

I was gone while the ruling was handed down, but I have to laugh at the one guy going on about how the court is "taking sides in the culture war." Uh, dude? By complaining against this, aren't you "taking a side in the culture war" too?

 

The Santorum thing has proved that there's nobody in the highest levels of the party who cares and Frist will probably get a gold star by several conservatives and conservative chatterboxes for his statement.

[Guest Anglesault]

Jesus Christ, why can't we just let these people be?

 

As part of my religion, I don't advise or even support gay marriage, but I'm not going to fucking try and ban it. That's ridiculous. As long as these people aren't going to be over the top and in your face (Ellen, some of the gay pride parade characters) , why do you care who they're married to?

[Guest EricMM]

In that they frighten some people who actually affect decisions in this country, probably.

 

There are lots of churches in this country where you can perform a wedding ceremy so that you are married under God's eyes, so this whole thing is even stupider. It's just political conservatives trying to deny gay people tax breaks because they're offended by their actions. What, are they going to make our country dangerously underpopulated by not breeding? Please.

 

Again, I would love to debate this with someone actually in favor of banning gay marriages in terms of states legal stuff.

[Guest Anglesault]

In that they frighten some people who actually affect decisions in this country, probably.

Sorry. My original post asked if anyone thought that "over the top" gays like Ellen or men that do the parades in pumps and evening gowns hurt the more "normal" gays more than it helped.

 

I edited it out because I thought it might be more trouble than it was worth.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Sorry. My original post asked if anyone thought that "over the top" gays like Ellen or men that do the parades in pumps and evening gowns hurt the more "normal" gays more than it helped.

Pumps and evening gowns aren't so bad. Incredibly tight leather and wearing almost nothing at all help not one bit though.

 

There's an actual Onion story about "Gay Pride Parade Sets Mainstream Acceptance Of Gays Back 50 Years." It's sad because it's true.

[Guest Anglesault]

There's an actual Onion story about "Gay Pride Parade Sets Mainstream Acceptance Of Gays Back 50 Years." It's sad because it's true.

Basically, I was trying to ask that. Sorry if it came off badly.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

The Onion story Jobber mentioned is absolutely true. I can't even begin to describe how much those obscene, indecent, disrespectful parades disgust, sicken, embarrass, and infuriate me.

[Guest JMA]

Damn. I thought Frist was one of the good guys. But it turns out he's slime, just like Santorum.

[Guest Vyce]

I say anyone who actually gets married is out of their fucking mind.

 

Why should gays be allowed to be any less insane? I want to see gay marriage happen, if for nothing else than the selfish reason of wanting to see two gay men bicker in a court of law over which one gets alimony.

[Guest JMA]

I say anyone who actually gets married is out of their fucking mind.

Agreed.

[Guest DrTom]

This is precisely the kind of rubbish the Constitution doesn't need.

[Guest TheGame2705]

Glad to see some others think Pride is a bunch of trash. I don't think it's the whole parade that annoys me but more of the fact that the reason most people go to them isn't too stand up for pride, it's too get laid by any and everybody.

[Guest Jobber of the Week]

Glad to see some others think Pride is a bunch of trash.

I don't think Pride is a bunch of trash. It probably will be useless once Jerry Falwell and Fred "let's protest at Mr. Rogers' funeral" Phelps passes on. However, it's the people who make a giant self-mockery of the whole thing by intentionally trying to be as offensive as they can ruin things.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

I don't see the need for a constitutional amendment. Something like 70% of people are opposed to same sex marriages. It's unlikely that same sex marriages will be legalized in the near future.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

I don't see the need for a constitutional amendment. Something like 70% of people are opposed to same sex marriages. It's unlikely that same sex marriages will be legalized in the near future.

 

According to Gallup...

 

POLL ANALYSES

5/15/2003

 

 

Six out of 10 Americans Say Homosexual Relations Should Be Recognized as Legal

But Americans are evenly divided on issue of legal civil unions between homosexuals giving them the legal rights of married couples

 

Six out of 10 Americans feel that homosexual relations between consenting adults should be legal, the highest level of acceptance of the legality of homosexuality measured over the 26 years Gallup has been asking this question. A slightly smaller percentage -- 54% -- says that homosexuality should be considered an acceptable lifestyle. Almost 9 out of 10 Americans support the concept of equal rights in terms of job opportunities for homosexuals, although opinions on allowing homosexual couples to legally form civil unions, giving them some of the legal rights of married couples, are evenly divided.

 

Somewhat related...

 

CNN/Time Poll conducted by Yankelovich Partners. Oct. 14-15, 1998. N=1,036 adults nationwide.

      .

 

  ALL Rep. Ind. Dem. 

  % % % % 

"Finally, do you think that as a matter of principle, the federal government should treat homosexuals and heterosexuals equally, or don't you think so?"

Yes, should 82 82 85 85 

No, don't think so 14 15 11 12 

Not sure 4 3 4 3

 

Equality would mean in respect to civil unions, as well, one would think.

[Guest JMA]

Looks like you were wrong, Vern.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

By the way, I just found the actual numbers of the Gallup poll... damn their subscription service.

 

The final numbers in the poll on homosexual unions were 49% for, 49% against, and 2% undecided. While it's not fair to say the majority of Americans support it, it is fair to say that neither side has a plaurality. The trend in recent years has been going towards yes, as well; in 1995, the numbers WERE similar to Vern's suggestion. However, they've changed dramatically.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

The numbers suprise me. Although, it does say Civil Union. That to me isn't the same has Marriage. I don't have numbers, but people might look at a Civil Union differently than a Marriage.

[Guest Tyler McClelland]

In effect, though, we both know it's the same thing.

 

I did see a reference to that on a gay rights website -- that is, that people are more hesitant to approve MARRIAGE, even though it equates to the same thing -- and it's worth noting.

[Guest teke184]

Goddammit... THIS is why someone needs to tell the religious right to SHUT THE FUCK UP so that they don't kill the rest of the party with their stupid bullshit. I don't personally care too much about gay marriages but expressly forbidding them is asking for trouble.

 

On top of the stupidity of picking a fight on this issue, this has NO SHOT IN HELL of EVER being ratified. Ratification of an amendment requires, IIRC, a 2/3 majority of both the House and Senate, the President's approval, and the approval of 2/3 of the states. There is not enough approval in the Senate to realistically expect 51% to vote "yes" on it. Even if it did miraculously get past both chambers and the President, this thing would never get ratified by quite a few liberal states.

[Guest JMA]

Goddammit... THIS is why someone needs to tell the religious right to SHUT THE FUCK UP so that they don't kill the rest of the party with their stupid bullshit.

A-fucking-men.

[Guest NoCalMike]

The biggest question I have, is why the fuck does it bother these guys if SOMEONE ELSE gets married to whoever the hell they want to? How does that change their quality of life at all? What would be different about everyday life in america if 2 people of the same sex were married? Not a damn thing.

[Guest Vern Gagne]

Many people feel that the term marriage should be reserved for a man and a woman. Which is the traditional meaning of the word.

[Guest JMA]

Many people feel that the term marriage should be reserved for a man and a woman. Which is the traditional meaning of the word.

Does it really matter what these people think? The fact is, allowing same-sex couples to get married doesn't hurt anyone. Why should it matter if people oppose it because of religious reasons? The law is secular (as it should be).

[Guest EricMM]

Many people feel that the term marriage should be reserved for a man and a woman. Which is the traditional meaning of the word.

 

But Verne would you disagree that most people who think that are motivated by religion?

 

And that if you look at it from a non-religious standpoint there is no reason two men should not be able to live their lives the same way a man and woman do?

 

You can argue more easily for things like controls on adoption if you feel so inclined, but a marriage ban based on WHAT???

[Guest hardyz1]

But we don't want the homosexuals infecting our children with their disease!!! Will someone please think of the children?!?!!

[rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0]

The biggest question I have, is why the fuck does it bother these guys if SOMEONE ELSE gets married to whoever the hell they want to? How does that change their quality of life at all? What would be different about everyday life in america if 2 people of the same sex were married? Not a damn thing.

I supose you could argue, by the same token, that it doesn't matter if gay people are allowed to marry or not if it's not going to matter, so why not keep it illegal. Not my point of view, but there you go.

Ultimately, I see marriage as being one of the last preserves of the conventional right, as being one of the last barriers to be broken. It's a lot more important for symbolic reasons than for monetary reasons.

 

Also, I can't remember whether or not the bible directly bans homosexuality or not. If so, shouldn't it be right that a homosexual Christian mariage under God remains illegal?

[Guest Ripper]

Speaking of the Gay Pride parades, there was a HUGE one here in Atlanta this weekend. A friend of mine lives near where the parade was and I was going to see her. Apparently, I am going to hell and going to burn for eternity because her and her house caught the gay. 250 lb cross-dresser in thong walking in broad daylight by homes where children live or religious people screaming that all of the people there and surrounding areas would burn in hell...who do you dislike first.