Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 30, 2003 Judgement Day was also a success. The way I understood it was that it was less of a failure than Backlash Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted June 30, 2003 WWE officials considered it a success- I was going by their line Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wrestlingbs Report post Posted June 30, 2003 WWE officials considered it a success- I was going by their line Yeah, and Vince thought Katie Vick was a success at the beginning. Part of me wants Goldberg to fail, not because he's from WCW but because he comes off as an egotistical jerk who's not very good. But part of me wants Goldberg to succeed, and thus become a success for the WWE. What I think they should do: have him job to Jericho at SS, which will get Jericho over big time, and then start fresh with him, building him up not as an unbeatable giant but as a skilled tough guy who starts picking up victories. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted June 30, 2003 WWE officials considered it a success- I was going by their line Yeah, and Vince thought Katie Vick was a success at the beginning. Part of me wants Goldberg to fail, not because he's from WCW but because he comes off as an egotistical jerk who's not very good. But part of me wants Goldberg to succeed, and thus become a success for the WWE. What I think they should do: have him job to Jericho at SS, which will get Jericho over big time, and then start fresh with him, building him up not as an unbeatable giant but as a skilled tough guy who starts picking up victories. The problem is they didnt pay Goldberg all that money to have him job and put guys over. Now, if they were parting ways with him that would be a different story and i'd be all for it. I'll tell you this though......if they decided to part ways and AFTERWARDS they scheduled Goldberg to lose at SummerSlam i bet he'd just walk out like a dick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 30, 2003 How are quarterly ratings a sign of drawing ability? *notes that it is much easier to turn on a TV than it is to go to a show... and much cheaper than buying a ticket* *notes that the WWE forecasts _lower_ house show numbers and _lower_ buyrates in the next few months* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 30, 2003 Which is why I get the Montreal revisted feeling if they ever do Goldberg/HHH... Hell, Vince could AIR Series 1997 in the back and goldberg would STILL be oblivious... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted June 30, 2003 I would just put Goldberg into a program directly after a RAW brand PPV. That gives Goldberg and said opponent two months to build up to their meeting at the next brand specific PPV. It shouldn't be done like Jericho/Goldberg was either...although that had the possibility to be explosive had they played up their WCW past more. The question is who do you pair up against Goldberg? Not only that, but how do you build up a PPV match when Goldberg isn't good on the stick? I think that's what the problem was in the Jericho storyline. It's like the WWE switched their roles. Jericho was getting in the offense, and Goldberg was always on the stick. It made for bad T.V. Now, when Jericho was on the stick (for example his shoot promo) it just seemed better. When Jericho was running from Goldberg, it just seemed to make more sense. Maybe it's just me. I guess HHH is the only person who Goldberg could go after. You could put Goldberg in matches against Orton or Flair with HHH at ringside doing commentary or something. You could even have HHH interfer and cost Goldberg a match against one of them. This way, Evolution still looks strong, especially as a faction, and Goldberg wouldn't be unbeatable going into the WWE title match against Hunter. Then at the PPV, you could have someone like Foley thwart the Evolution run-in and Goldberg could go over Hunter clean. Just a couple or random thoughts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 30, 2003 Goldberg vs. Kane looks to be the positioning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted June 30, 2003 I'll wait to see what Kane is doing on RAW before I pass judgment on that. It doesn't sound bad name value wise...but it sure does sound bad as a match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 30, 2003 The question is who do you pair up against Goldberg? Not only that, but how do you build up a PPV match when Goldberg isn't good on the stick? I think that's what the problem was in the Jericho storyline. It's like the WWE switched their roles. Jericho was getting in the offense, Yep, Goldberg was nearly crippled by all that offense that he didn't sell. The problem was no one though Jericho could win (100% FGB's fault), and thus, no one cared. And I'm not desperate enough to get the belt off HHH to give it t FGB. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 30, 2003 The way I see it is that Goldberg doesn't have anyone on Raw that is impressive to squash. Rodney Mack was like the only strongly positioned heel (in terms of his win-streak) and that was over quickly. Kane is the _only_ heel right now outside HHH that could put Goldberg over effectively to set up a world title match. It won't happen right now, but I can see it happening by Summerslam. Kane first has to have his requisite matches vs. RVD and Booker T to be fully positioned as a strong-heel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted June 30, 2003 The question is who do you pair up against Goldberg? Not only that, but how do you build up a PPV match when Goldberg isn't good on the stick? I think that's what the problem was in the Jericho storyline. It's like the WWE switched their roles. Jericho was getting in the offense, Yep, Goldberg was nearly crippled by all that offense that he didn't sell. The problem was no one though Jericho could win (100% FGB's fault), and thus, no one cared. And I'm not desperate enough to get the belt off HHH to give it t FGB. I don't think it was 100% Goldberg's fault. It sure wasn't Jericho's fault, but I would put at least a little bit of blame on the writers and bookers. Sure, Goldberg isn't the best seller on the planet, but shouldn't someone in the back known that before writing down Jericho hitting Goldberg with a chair in a Terri interview? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 30, 2003 I don't think it was 100% Goldberg's fault. It sure wasn't Jericho's fault, but I would put at least a little bit of blame on the writers and bookers. Sure, Goldberg isn't the best seller on the planet, but shouldn't someone in the back known that before writing down Jericho hitting Goldberg with a chair in a Terri interview? Jericho was supposed to really hurt him, but Billy through a temper tantrum combined with a hissy fit and ordered that it be changed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted June 30, 2003 Yeah, I remember reading that. I also remember siding with Goldberg on that one. Could you repost the article, because maybe my views on it have changed. The way I understood it, Goldberg was upset because Jericho was going to get some great big offense before the PPV. Goldberg was opposed because he felt he was the face chasing Jericho and that Jericho should be the cowering heel. If that's the case, I agree. I don't mind Jericho playing the "hit-n-run" heel, but he shouldn't be physically dominating Goldberg. Besides, if they listened to Goldberg over doing their job, it's still partly their fault. Again, not 100% Goldberg. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Anglesault Report post Posted June 30, 2003 The way I remember it Jericho was gonna sneak attack him and hurt his arm. He would take the trainer's advice and go get an X-ray than he'd come back, give the interview with Terri, and Y2J would attack again. Except this time, Golberg wouldn't get right back up and laugh. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 30, 2003 Yeah, that does suck - but really, would you have believed Jericho would have won anyways? Everyone knew Jericho was going to get beaten, it was just a question of how... ok, everyone knew how he was going to get beaten too... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mulatto Heat Report post Posted June 30, 2003 You know, for someone who is supposed to be WWE's savior, Goldberg really does have a very fragile persona.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffey Report post Posted June 30, 2003 Oh. Well, if that's the case, then I agree with you. That would give Goldberg the "underdog" role in the PPV match again though...which you don't want to do. For example, when DDP went into a match in WCW with injured ribs, he was decent at selling and the underdog to begin with, so it worked. If you have Goldberg go into a PPV where you work over his shoulder (like Jericho & the Rock both did) the match is destined to be bad. Why would you work over Goldberg's shoulder? Sure, it makes sense psychology wise, but it makes zero sense common sense wise. A lot of his moves (READ: All) are power moves that require use of his arms and shoulder. Plus, we all know that Goldberg isn't the best at selling. I think that's part of the reason why DDP/Goldberg at Halloween Havoc was better than expected. DDP was, of course, the underdog. Goldberg was expected to win. DDP's finisher was so over though, that if it connected, no matter who the opponent, the crowd would think that DDP could win. So even though Goldberg was "unbeatable" if he got hit with the Diamond Cutter, DDP might get the upset. Goldberg got to work his match, with his power moves not being held back due to injured shoulders or whatnot. Page got beat on and got to play the underdog the whole match. Page hit his finisher, and proved that he could beat Goldberg, but no ref. So, he went for it again, but Goldberg learned from the last one. Page still being worn down, lost when Goldberg capitilized on the second Cutter attempt. Makes sense to me. Of course, the WWE didn't learn from their mistake the first time with Rock/Berg, so they let Jericho work the shoulder too. At least if the arm injury happened on RAW like you say it was supposed to, people would know what to expect going into the PPV match. "Can Jericho take advantage of the injured arm of Goldberg? Can Goldberg overcome the injury to defeat Jericho" That sort of thing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JasonX 0 Report post Posted June 30, 2003 Which is why I get the Montreal revisted feeling if they ever do Goldberg/HHH... Hell, Vince could AIR Series 1997 in the back and goldberg would STILL be oblivious... Vince wouldn't dare do another SS 97 screwjob for multiple reasons: 1. It would cause a a massive revolt in the locker room, who would feel it as bing proof that HHH was the devil and capable of ANYTHING to avoid losing the belt. 2. Golberg isn't Bret Hart and would not hold back his rage like Bret did if he got screwjobbed. At best, Golberg would physically maim HHH if HHH didn't flee the ring right away and would make a BIG stink in the media about how he got fucked over by Vince, which would hurt the WWE in the public eye BIG TIME.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mattdotcom Report post Posted June 30, 2003 IF Vince decideds to screw FGB, here's what should happen: HHH puts Goldberg in the Sharpshooter. The bell rings. Goldberg snaps, tries to break the hold. HHH tears his other quad. Goldberg goes looking for Vince. If that ever happened, the O&O PPV Thread would balloon to about 250 pages. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 30, 2003 Which is why I get the Montreal revisted feeling if they ever do Goldberg/HHH... Hell, Vince could AIR Series 1997 in the back and goldberg would STILL be oblivious... Vince wouldn't dare do another SS 97 screwjob for multiple reasons: 1. It would cause a a massive revolt in the locker room, who would feel it as bing proof that HHH was the devil and capable of ANYTHING to avoid losing the belt. 2. Golberg isn't Bret Hart and would not hold back his rage like Bret did if he got screwjobbed. At best, Golberg would physically maim HHH if HHH didn't flee the ring right away and would make a BIG stink in the media about how he got fucked over by Vince, which would hurt the WWE in the public eye BIG TIME.... The guys in the back won't be too offended that Goldberg got screwed... Just wave A wad of cash in front of Goldberg...He'll calm down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
