Guest CoreyLazarus416 Report post Posted June 30, 2003 Yeah, because Styles is SUCH a pointless spotman, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted June 30, 2003 Yea- This Xavier is overrated stuff is horseshit. Everyone hated the guy- how is he overrated? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Internet Warfare 0 Report post Posted June 30, 2003 I saw AD in a APW match a couple months ago and I have to say he does have the ability but not the look. Red is a good wrestler from the one match I saw, that being the match against Low-Ki from the Title tourny in ROH. Too much of a spot fest though. Low-Ki is a fantastic wrestler, I think the kicks would get over as well as the look, but the WWE would probably find a way to kill the character. Paul london would get over huge, but after a small push they'll send him to Velocity to job to Orlando Jordan. Never seen a Daneils match. AJ would get over huge and stay huge, He has it all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 30, 2003 The problem with these vanilla X guys is that You put these skinny 5'9 215 SOAKING wet guys in the ring and they do they flipppy flopply wrestling...and it's not appealing. I'm currently watching the American Dragon/Spanky...and here is what I HAVE to say 1). What are they wearing? Pajamas? It's all about presentation and while I'm not asking them to be creative with their wardrobe or be traditional with Black tights but the fact there wearing MC Hammer's 25 cent leftover pants only makes them look like 15 year old backyard wrestlers. 2). The lack of commentary hurts but that's not their fault...I'm just pointing that out. 3). While this this certaintly *MUCH* more fluid then 90% of ECW's spotfests (likey because they aren't high, drunk, or lazy like those guys were)...It's lacking flow...It's one kicky flip segment to another. No substance. No Psychology just yet and an lack of focus on whose playing what role again creating the feel of two 15 year olds in their backyard...O.K at least I can tell Am.Dragon is playing the heel...that makes things a little better... 4). Keep in mind that I am keeping an open mind here...If It's good I'll admit it...I'm not purposely trying to impunge on it... 5) Ok they are slowly working in Psychologally with the hand...But why the hand? All of Spanky's offense has been his kicks and flippity floppy stuff (remember I'm watching this match from the viewpoint of a guy who hasn't seen Spanky and doesn't know his Sliced Bread Finisher) 6). This has nothing to do with the content...I can't stand those random fans yelling "WHOO!" 7). Thing I like- Spanky's Selling; thing I DONT like-Camera work but again not Their fault..Is this a fan cam or actual video producted? I see camera man on ringside...so I'm certain this is a Fancam... 8). You can tell Spanky is from the HBK school of learning...he oversells like he was Hening on Crack. 9). Match Over...I liked the match...It was a little too spotty for my personal tastes but at least they managed to hit those spots and kept it fluid but keep in mind hitting those spots are easy to do in front of a small crowd of 1,000 (cant be anymore) or less...let's see if they can do that in front of 15,000. I'm not saying they couldn't but the pressure is clearly more intense in a large setting. Hell, RVD hits his spots more fluidly in WWE then he ever did in ECW. 10) The match was good but nothing special that would make me plop down my money and go see them if they came to town. I would have liked to seen more ground work as I can see Dragon can do the Mat stuff; they just chose to do the ecw match but only instead actually HIT THE SPOTS. Good Match though...***1/2. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 30, 2003 You didn't really say anything there other than...wait for it... nitpick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EricMM Report post Posted June 30, 2003 But Choken do you PREFER the average WWE match? Is one wrestlers image more important than the matches s/he has? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 30, 2003 But Choken do you PREFER the average WWE match? Is one wrestlers image more important than the matches s/he has? Not really but this match didn't make me go "OMG THIS IS THE FUTURE OF WRESTLING!". Image is very important in wrestling because it's become an VISUAL industry and having a good image is crucial... Again don't confuse that I am saying that IMAGE=6'7 305 pound Hoss... They have a good look but you couldn't help but conjure images of Backyard Wrestlers seeing those two... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 30, 2003 What match *are* you talking about anyways? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EricMM Report post Posted June 30, 2003 I'm trying to pin this down; which do you prefer, your average WWE match or this one? Which one entertained you more? *EDIT* Unless I'm badly mistaken he's referring to the 01-02-24 ROH Spanky/AD match. There are a LOT of ROH matches with good camera work, this is just one available on the net. Again, watch AD/Low Ki for a Great match. *EDIT* *EDIT2 * Choken One if you want to see a spanky match with SB#2 and all, catch Spanky vs. Jay Briscoe 02-03-30 *EDIT2* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted June 30, 2003 I think he's talking about the match where Spanky had these neon yellow cargo shorts on, and American Dragon had some red generic k-mart pants on where dragon finishes with a dragon release suples followed by a unique upside down fullnelson while Spanky is laying down face first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted June 30, 2003 I want more Xavier just from what I have seen from the Velocity match. Xavier is so overrated, it's scary. All he needs is one big spot and he could be the next Edge, and he would have to start out as a tag wrestler on Smackdown, he could be Xavier Basham. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 30, 2003 Depends what is the average WWE match? Are we talking the 4-7 minute TV matches or the PPV 10-25 minute matches... I liked this match and I'll take it over Billy Gunn/Anyone anyday of the week even if Spanky wore a Purple Thong... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted June 30, 2003 I'm currently watching the American Dragon/Spanky...and here is what I HAVE to say 1). What are they wearing? Pajamas? It's all about presentation and while I'm not asking them to be creative with their wardrobe or be traditional with Black tights but the fact there wearing MC Hammer's 25 cent leftover pants only makes them look like 15 year old backyard wrestlers. Was this the TWA footage from around 1999-2000? What you don't like the Shawn Michaels commentary or that guy from the radio station 99.5 KISS FM. Give them some slack it was their rookie year. I find it amazing how American Dragon went from RVD clone to Mr Armbar/Elbow over the years. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 30, 2003 I'm trying to pin this down; which do you prefer, your average WWE match or this one? Which one entertained you more? *EDIT* Unless I'm badly mistaken he's referring to the 01-02-24 ROH Spanky/AD match. There are a LOT of ROH matches with good camera work, this is just one available on the net. Again, watch AD/Low Ki for a Great match. *EDIT* *EDIT2 * Choken One if you want to see a spanky match with SB#2 and all, catch Spanky vs. Jay Briscoe 02-03-30 *EDIT2* I did indeed watch the one mentioned by Loosecannon... I have Spanky-Briscoe somewhere and I intend to find it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 30, 2003 I'm currently watching the American Dragon/Spanky...and here is what I HAVE to say 1). What are they wearing? Pajamas? It's all about presentation and while I'm not asking them to be creative with their wardrobe or be traditional with Black tights but the fact there wearing MC Hammer's 25 cent leftover pants only makes them look like 15 year old backyard wrestlers. Was this the TWA footage from around 1999-2000? What you don't like the Shawn Michaels commentary or that guy from the radio station 99.5 KISS FM. Give them some slack it was their rookie year. I find it amazing how American Dragon went from RVD clone to Mr Armbar/Elbow over the years. There was no commentary...So I can't say if that was the same match but I doubt it unless Spanky hasn't changed a bit in 4 years... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest razazteca Report post Posted June 30, 2003 Did American Dragon have his mask on? And yeah Spanky was the average backyard looking kid and he still looks that way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 30, 2003 I want more Xavier just from what I have seen from the Velocity match. Xavier is so overrated, it's scary. All he needs is one big spot and he could be the next Edge, and he would have to start out as a tag wrestler on Smackdown, he could be Xavier Basham. Of all the recent X divison/ROH/Indy guys... Xavier is the one I don't get the love for... However WWE will strip the Xavier name and simply call him "X". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 30, 2003 Did American Dragon have his mask on? And yeah Spanky was the average backyard looking kid and he still looks that way. No mask. Just his bland face... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Nevermortal Report post Posted June 30, 2003 That Spanky/Am match is nothing special. Its barely watchable, and both guys were not far into their careers. If you want good examples of what Spanky can do in the ring....watch the following: v. Paul London (RoH: Road to the Title) v. Low Ki v. Chris Daniels v. Doug Williams (RoH: Crowning a Champion) v. Jay Briscoe (RoH: Round Robin Challenge) The Heart Break Gauntlet (RoH: Night of Appreciation) As for American Dragon... v. Christopher Daniels v. Low Ki (RoH: Era of Honor Begins) v. Christopher Daniels (RoH: Round Robin Challenge) v. Low Ki (RoH: Round Robin Challenge) *If you don't like a lot of mat work, stay the fuck away* v. AJ Styles (RoH: All Star Extravaganza) And I hear his 4/12/03 match with Paul London is absolutely off the charts. Sorry if I got a little fanboyish there, but it had to be done. Spanky and American Dragon are both exceptional competitors, if they actually get the time to show what they can do. Oh and Game, don't judge Ki on his NWA;TNA work. Watch a few of his indy matches, where he gets to actually work rather than just hit his spots. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted June 30, 2003 I like Spanky vs. Jody Fleish in ROH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheGame2705 Report post Posted June 30, 2003 The Steiners haven't always been shit there buddy......Scott was considered one of the best workers in the world until those injuries started settling in. If you think Lesnar isnt good and has no talent then you haven't been watching. Being an amateur wrestler means you're legitimately a good wrestler. Lesnar, Benjamin, Haas, Angle, and Scott Steiner in the past are all very good wrestlers. I don't think Cena is bad and im not white.....it's pretty ignorant to bring races into this. Your "most people that like him are white" statement is pretty friggin dumb. I don't remember calling the Steiners shit. I actually thought they were good and don't think of them too ill even now. I have been watching, I watched Brock Lesnar FALL ON HIS FACE IN THE MAIN EVENT OF THE WWE'S BIGGEST SHOW. I've seen him plow through everyone, only gaining heat towards the end of the push. I've seen his matches be punches and kicks and then stalling before punching and kicking some more. Being an amateur wrestler means you're a legit amateur wrestler but if you haven't noticed this is professional wrestling. Just because you know how to take someone down and roll around with them doesn't mean you know how to create drama to make a match memorable. I was saying that all the people who I know that like Cena are white ranging from my best friend to guys I've dated to random people who have come into my work. I wasn't trying to make a big deal of it, just saying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 30, 2003 That Spanky/Am match is nothing special. Its barely watchable, and both guys were not far into their careers. If you want good examples of what Spanky can do in the ring....watch the following: v. Paul London (RoH: Road to the Title) v. Low Ki v. Chris Daniels v. Doug Williams (RoH: Crowning a Champion) v. Jay Briscoe (RoH: Round Robin Challenge) The Heart Break Gauntlet (RoH: Night of Appreciation) As for American Dragon... v. Christopher Daniels v. Low Ki (RoH: Era of Honor Begins) v. Christopher Daniels (RoH: Round Robin Challenge) v. Low Ki (RoH: Round Robin Challenge) *If you don't like a lot of mat work, stay the fuck away* v. AJ Styles (RoH: All Star Extravaganza) And I hear his 4/12/03 match with Paul London is absolutely off the charts. Sorry if I got a little fanboyish there, but it had to be done. Spanky and American Dragon are both exceptional competitors, if they actually get the time to show what they can do. Oh and Game, don't judge Ki on his NWA;TNA work. Watch a few of his indy matches, where he gets to actually work rather than just hit his spots. Thank you for those suggestions... But out of Curiosity... Are there any Spanky matches involving NON indy cruiser X guys? I mean against Bigger guys in the Haas/Angle/Storm mold... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted June 30, 2003 I'm gonna defend Low Ki. I have a 6 hour best-of Low Ki comp that features a wide-variety of matches most of which feature him in his first _2 years_ in the business. He had a good match with Monsta Mack, he's had really good matches with homicide, his matches with Am Dragon are superb, his performance at the Super 8 was top notch, he's had good matches with Jimmy Riel, Quackenbush, (I'd go on but I gotta go) and did I mention Monsta Mack?? I know there is the backlash to the 2001 "Low Ki is God" period, but that shouldn't discount his work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 30, 2003 The Steiners haven't always been shit there buddy......Scott was considered one of the best workers in the world until those injuries started settling in. If you think Lesnar isnt good and has no talent then you haven't been watching. Being an amateur wrestler means you're legitimately a good wrestler. Lesnar, Benjamin, Haas, Angle, and Scott Steiner in the past are all very good wrestlers. I don't think Cena is bad and im not white.....it's pretty ignorant to bring races into this. Your "most people that like him are white" statement is pretty friggin dumb. I don't remember calling the Steiners shit. I actually thought they were good and don't think of them too ill even now. I have been watching, I watched Brock Lesnar FALL ON HIS FACE IN THE MAIN EVENT OF THE WWE'S BIGGEST SHOW. I've seen him plow through everyone, only gaining heat towards the end of the push. I've seen his matches be punches and kicks and then stalling before punching and kicking some more. Being an amateur wrestler means you're a legit amateur wrestler but if you haven't noticed this is professional wrestling. Just because you know how to take someone down and roll around with them doesn't mean you know how to create drama to make a match memorable. I was saying that all the people who I know that like Cena are white ranging from my best friend to guys I've dated to random people who have come into my work. I wasn't trying to make a big deal of it, just saying. Lesnar didn't fall on his face...He botched a spot. Simple as that. People have botched spots before and even done so on the biggest stage of all WM MAIN EVENT. of Course, Steiner is better then Lesnar at this point in their careers but that doesn't mean Lesnar isn't good. Steiner was the true first hybrid in the ultimate evolution of the Big Man Wrestling Overall greatness...Lesnar just expanded the mold a little further... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LooseCannon25 0 Report post Posted June 30, 2003 Game, you said that the Steiners are hated for the most part....i'm telling you Steiner was very good in his prime. Brock messing up a spot......a SSP with the other guy 3/4 from the ting away from him nonetheless, was just that. A botched spot. It happens to EVERYONE. To judge him because of that missed spot is foolish Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted June 30, 2003 Hell, We just showed you 220 reasons to Like Steiner... WE STILL LIKE STEINER! (just not in the main event that is) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EricMM Report post Posted June 30, 2003 Thank you for those suggestions... But out of Curiosity... Are there any Spanky matches involving NON indy cruiser X guys? I mean against Bigger guys in the Haas/Angle/Storm mold... Again, Jay Briscoe is certainly not an indy cruiser flip-flop guy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted June 30, 2003 I want more Xavier just from what I have seen from the Velocity match. Xavier is so overrated, it's scary. All he needs is one big spot and he could be the next Edge, and he would have to start out as a tag wrestler on Smackdown, he could be Xavier Basham. Of all the recent X divison/ROH/Indy guys... Xavier is the one I don't get the love for... However WWE will strip the Xavier name and simply call him "X". No one likes Xavier- so once again- he is NOT overrated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Markingout Report post Posted July 1, 2003 Spanky is great, and he is still not in his prime, same goes for American Dragon who I think is 21. American Dragon is great. He knows so many moves. He is great. Low Ki is overrated. He is excellent with his intencity and his toughness. He is more like a shoot fighter than a wrestler but is still entertaining Red is spotty AJ Styles.... GOD DAMN HE OWNS. SIGN THE MAN ALREADY, AND GIVE HIM SOME MONEY. If they sign Paul they would not let him be himself,because the man can bump and has taking sick shots same goes for Red Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest TheGame2705 Report post Posted July 1, 2003 Game, you said that the Steiners are hated for the most part....i'm telling you Steiner was very good in his prime. Brock messing up a spot......a SSP with the other guy 3/4 from the ting away from him nonetheless, was just that. A botched spot. It happens to EVERYONE. To judge him because of that missed spot is foolish Yeah in his prime... I never said Steiner was hated in his prime. I'm sorry for wording it wrong. I should have said everyone hates Scott Steiner now and they've always hated Rick. Whether he was in his prime or his now injured state doesn't change that he's an amateur wrestler as well. Yeah and those people who do it in the fucking main event of Wrestlemania should get whatever insults come their way about it. Atleast when Jericho couldn't his lionsault it wasn't in a big main event. And I'm not judging him solely on the fact that he botched a move that he's supposed to be the best at doing for a guy so big, I'm judging him on the fact that without the huge push he recieved, he wouldn't be over and he would be in the same boat as Batista, nothing but power moves and no charisma. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
