Weirdest thing ever at church

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Another thing is tongues in the new testament church were supposed to be orderly and in turn not a chaotic, random, mess.

 

You go to most of these Churches now and it just comes out of nowhere.

 

Most of the time in the new testament when you see "tongues" it is interchangable with "languages" most of the footnotes say that.

 

They were "always" meaningful messages and not just tongues for the sake of doing tongues.

 

If they weren't meaningful then usually it was someone making stuff up and not doing true tongues.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

and it was stated that it was done "not to those who believe but to unbelievers" which is why a translator was needed. Because even when hearing in your language you sometimes don't understand what they mean.

 

And another interesting fact is that tongues are not mentioned in any other epistles. So it might have only been used in certain areas where it was needed.

[Guest TheGame2705]

Oh I do believe some people bs when doing tongues but I don't believe it's all bs. I also do believe in some order because it becomes distracting and an overall bother to the whole prayer when someone's shouting over someone else. That's when I believe tongues are fake. When you get loud not because you just normally get loud but when you get loud to overcome someone else's voice.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

The fact that Paul only mentions tongues in the Corintian epistles and how it says that those things would pass away makes me think that tongues was a gift that wasn't meant to always be around.

 

It was a gift that covered a special need, but it was also one that could only be passed on when an apostle laid hands on you so that you wouldn't have false teachers running around trying to show authority behind their false teachings.

 

The apostles gave the gift to enough people in that area so that the churches could have people who could speak in tongues.

 

The reasons? One...there wasn't a full Bible like we have now so insights were needed from time to time. Two...false teachers running around. Three...as a sign to prove the teachings because there wasn't written word for them to look at.

 

We have false teachers today, but we have the full Bible to look to to discredit them now.

[Guest stardust]

I was about 6 or 7 and went to a Pentecostal service one day with my step aunt and someone started speaking in tongues. It scared the bejesus out of me.

[Guest El Satanico]

If I throw a javelin and it lands between two ribs they'd think it was Stigmata.

 

bunch of god damned lunatics...that's what they are

[Guest IDrinkRatsMilk]

I've seen speaking in tongues many times in the Pentacostal churches I've been to, along with lots of screaming, collapsing in the aisles, smacking people in the head, fainting, and so on. It's some hybrid mix of mass hysteria and fraud.

I would often fuck with the church by practicing talking backwards, and standing up and blurting out about how Satan was my master and the redeemer was dead in reverse. They ate it up. I would also commonly say I was praying, and the Lord spoke to me and said blah blah blah (I'd quote a bunch of Marilyn Manson lyrics), and I'd get lots of Amens and Hallelujahs... it was pretty funny.

 

Something unusual I did see at church once was at a very conservative church, where they believed in none of these things, and everybody wore a suit and was silent during the service, the preacher (a guest speaker) starting ripping pages out of the Bible, then threw the whole book from the pulpit into the congregation. I think his message was about how we shouldn't take parts of the Bible out of context. It messed those people's heads up.

 

So yeah, church is fun if so find the right one. I've always wanted to go to a snake handler service, but I've never been that deep in the hills... plus I'm not picking up any snakes or drinking poison, they'd probably consider me an apostate or some such. I don't want to antagonize people like that.

[Guest Agent of Oblivion]

The midwest is a hotbed for bizarre church activity. In lots of small towns, you'll find churches in old grocery stores that have long since closed, or attached to gas stations..it's pretty wild shit.

 

I've always wanted to go to a pentecostal service with a tape recorder, because those people going ballistic would be a hellish thing to sample.

[Guest Downhome]

Oh I do believe some people bs when doing tongues but I don't believe it's all bs. I also do believe in some order because it becomes distracting and an overall bother to the whole prayer when someone's shouting over someone else. That's when I believe tongues are fake. When you get loud not because you just normally get loud but when you get loud to overcome someone else's voice.

Tounges as it is performed in churches in this day and age are false tongues and are not from God. No where in the Bible is the pratice talked about as you see it today. It is detailed as to what it is, the meaning of it, and it even has a very strict guide to go by for "rules" on how to do it.

 

Tongues ceased around 130 AD or so, and it's historical fact. The tongues of today began around 1830, which is also historical fact.

 

How these churches past off speaking in tongues as anything other than evil or an emotional high is beyond me.

[Guest kkktookmybabyaway]

Yeah SupaTaft that doesn't surprise me. If the preachers are of getting drunk then it doesn't surprise me they're pulling a hoax.

Hmm, maybe Catholic priests can use that as an excuse when molesting little boys.

 

"Gee officer *hiccup*, he looked to be a 21-year old inflatable woman..."

[Guest SupaTaft]

To those who believe, ask someone who has "Spoken the language of God" and see what they thought of it.

 

Their reply might surprise you.

 

-Taft

[Guest cue_meanie]

but to say tongues are a hoax and don't exist is foolish

 

No it isn't, it IS A HOAX. Thats my belief so back off, you don't like it when people talk about you're "foolish" beliefs...to me its a lot more foolish to have blind faith in something that seems pretty far fetched then to beleive that humans have been conning there own kind since the beginning of time. Every time period has there own gods whos to say in 500 years people wont look back on our civilization and laugh at how we worshiped this "god" like we do when looking back at Roman and Greek Mythology, because thats all we live in know is Christian Mythology.

[Guest cynicalprofit]

weird is watching your ex girlfriends mom get sexually aroused be cause a guy she wants to be dating is preaching. that is how you know maybe you're in this religion thing a tad to deep.

[Guest TheGame2705]

Thats my belief so back off

If you don't want your beliefs questioned...

 

 

DON'T COME INTO THE THREAD. Not many people will sit idly by and just let you be.

[Guest SP-1]

Its staged.

 

My whole family are preachers, they've admitted whilst intoxicated that they tell people to do so and encourage them to make outbursts.

 

Its all to stir up business.

 

You did not hear the voice of your God.

 

-Taft

GREATEST POST EVER.....

That shit right there proves how unholy the church really is...its an elaborate pyramid scheme that has gone on for thousands of years

Or it proves that the people Taft is speaking of staged it. I know two people who are gifted in tongues, and neither does it for those reasons, or at those times. It doesn't happen only in church.

 

And DH, I haven't a clue where you got that information from. Certainly isn't biblical. Paul clearly lays out instructions for those with tongues and those with the gift of translation in the active church.

[Guest IDrinkRatsMilk]

Biblically, tongues existed for the purpose of preaching to people whose language you didn't know. In today's media saturated society, it's 100% unnecesary, unless you're deep in the jungle amidst a cannibal tribe.

[Guest SP-1]

Biblically, tongues serves multiple churches. It's been noted as being a supernatural common tongue, of sorts, to preach through the language barrier, and it's also noted as a spiritual language from God. The Bible talks about it as both. The translator Paul speaks of is someone to translate the spiritual tongue.

[Guest IDrinkRatsMilk]

Well, speaking in tongues first occurs in the second chapter of Acts, and the speakers did not know what they were saying, but people understood it in their own language. There was no interpreter. That means they were speaking in known languages and not a spiritual language.

This wasn't just the supernatural common tongue which anyone would hear as their own language, because it says "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues", so it says specifically that they were in fact, speaking known languages.

I can look it up and cite specifics if I have to, but I've studied it before and the Greek here is talking about known languages, it's the same in Paul's writing as it is in Acts. I might be wrong, but I believe this is the only account of tongues being spoken and what was said specifically.

Paul in 1 Corinthians also makes the point that tongues benefit no one by themselves, and only have a purpose to those who understand.

vs 9 "So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air."

 

So all this leads me to believe that tongues were, Biblically, real and known languages, which were spoken by those who did not know them for the purpose of preaching.

 

SP, I'm interested where you're getting the basis for the spiritual language of God. I have an idea, but I don't want to talk about it without knowing for sure.

[Guest Ten Ton Lid]

Everyone who hasn't yet should check out Snow Crash. It's an interesting take on the same subject.

[Guest SP-1]

1 Corinthians 13:1

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

Paul clearly seperates two different types of tongues here.

 

14:2

For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.

 

Paul seems to be weaving in and out, talking about spiritual tongues here . . .

 

14:13-14

For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

 

. . . and either of the two here.

 

 

Earlier, in Chapter 12, Paul lays out the structure of gifted people in the church. He makes no mention that this structure should cease sometime down the road. He says it as a standard instruction.

 

12:29

Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?

 

 

There's also that I've heard the spiritual version of tongues myself, and a companion of mine from Africa has an account of a spiritual outburst of tongues at a tent revival, whereby a man who spoke another language entirely recieved instruction because he could apparently interpret.

[Guest BigPoppaKev]

I think I may have a story to top yours. My pastor went nuts during a service one time. It was the Sunday after 9/11 and the guy pretty much went nuts. He was going on about how the devil was coming and that the devil was hiding in caves. And he kept making like these noises that were noises a little kid would make. He then took off his robe thing and started like jumping around. We also had a baptism that day (poor people) and the pastor picked up the child and brought it around the entire congregation and was showing it off and doing all this weird preaching. Then he brought out this stool that our church never uses. He starts doing annointments on the stool which we never do. This guy from the congregation stands up and starts telling stories about being in Vietnam and chopping off the head of a Vietnamese soldier. Our service is usually like an hour long and our pastor just kept going on and on for a good hour and a half. People started getting up and leaving. It was a big mess. Finally his wife went up there and had him get off the little stage part. That was an awesome service. If only each week could be like that.

[Guest JangoFett4Hire]

Now availible for God and god-like deities! Get real excited and speak in tongues!

 

"No, Bob, that's a stage direction, you know- get excited, crazy, woo!"

 

Oh ok, that will be fun- aa baa eonglooolalaladaaaay

[Guest SupaTaft]

So, children and retarted persons who babble incoherently are closer to their God?

 

-Taft

[Guest Downhome]

I'm not going to get into it technically here on the boards. I will just say that no where in the Bible is tounges taught as it is praticed today.

 

Fact: Tongues of the Bible CEASED around 130 AD.

 

Fact: The tongues as you see today did not begin untill around 1830, around the begining of the Mormon movement.

 

If you want me to get down to it more biblicly giving examples, historical records, etc... then feel free to contact me on AIM. You may not know it, but I'm always open for Biblical discussion of this such.

[Guest Cancer Marney]

"Yeah, and this one guy just totally started talking in God's language, y'know? And no one could understand him except this one guy who like translated! It was so creepy! I wonder how he knew what the first guy was saying?! What a sublime mystery of faith!!!"

 

 

 

I'm trying to find all this sad, pathetic, and delusional, rather than absurd, but it's just too comically idiotic for me to feel much pity.

[LaParkaYourCar 0]

Chapter 13 of I Cor. says that it will pass away. When the perfect comes. Most of the uses of "perfect" in the Bible are interchangable with "mature" or "complete"

 

As in the complete Bible as I said before. The dates that Downhome gave fit this. The dates he gave for when the First Century church stopped doing Tongues is about the time all the epistles would have been written and circulated.

[Guest IDrinkRatsMilk]

1 Corinthians 13:1

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

Paul clearly seperates two different types of tongues here.

 

This is the verse I thought you would use. The key to this verse, it seems to me, is love, and not tongues of men and angels. I would say he's using a figure of speech to demonstrate the difference between ability and motive. I favor this interpretation over an example of man speaking in an angelic language because in the verse I quoted before (So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood... etc), Paul demonstrated that spoken tongues need to be understood.

 

In 2 Corintians, Paul talks about being "caught up to Paradise, and heard unspeakable words which it was not possible for a man to utter.” He could be referencing this experience as an example to make his point about love. Plus it says that the language he heard was unable to be spoken by man.

 

14:2

For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God.  Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.

 

Paul seems to be weaving in and out, talking about spiritual tongues here . . .

 

This continues: "3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men [to] edification, and exhortation, and comfort.4 He that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. 6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?"

 

So the point is that tongues alone do not edify the church, and it's better to teach. If there is a spiritual tongue, Paul says right here that it serves no purpose in the church.

 

14:13-14

For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says.  For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

 

This looks like the language of men kind of tongues to me. He's again making the point that tongues are useless unless understood.

 

That the gift of tongues will pass with time has already been addressed.

 

I can't argue against your personal experience, so I won't. However, I was once in a graveyard with a voodoo priest and saw corpses get up out of the ground and walk. Did this actually happen? Probably not. But I did see it. I have no explanation, but sometimes no explanation makes more sense than taking things at face value, as a rule of thumb. Maybe I'm just out of my fucking mind. Maybe you are. Maybe God is. Who knows?

[Guest Downhome]

IDRM, you have gained a lot of my respect for posting in this topic as you have, just for the record. Anyway...

 

...the tongues as they are taught today is just totally screwed up and false as I've said before. Heck, the PENTECOSTAL churches base their core tongue belief on what happened on the day of Pentecost, and that most CERTAINLY is not what happens in churches of today.

 

It's all a big mess, and many churches can't agree on anything. Heck, I've had pastors and the such backed into a corner to the point that they couldn't back up their false teachings. I've brought up the dates to them and they refuse to ever speak to me about it again. It's all true though, the dates I gave are pretty exact. Just look up the history of the pentecostal movement as is known today.

 

When it comes down to it, it's really a slap in the face of the true Pentecostal explanation in ACTS.

 

Even in Corinthians Paul explains that if you EVER speak in tongues, an interpreter is a must to be present. The entire point of this is so that people can understand what is going on.

 

It also goes on to state that all must be done IN ORDER. One of my favorite verses in the Bible is in Corinthians concerning the pratice of speaking in tongues...

 

I Corinthians 14:33 --- "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."

 

...now I don't know about you people, but in MOST Pentecostal churches it most certainly is NOT peacefull, it's full of confusion, running around, screaming in pain and agony, falling down, and being "slayed in the spirit".

 

Oh yea, the pratice of being "slayed in teh spirit" is not a Biblical teaching either, it didn't ever come around untill the 1800's as well, along with tongues as you see today.

 

You also must remember and keep in mind the meaning of the book of Corinthians in the first place. Paul was spreading the message to new people, establishing "the church" so to speak. The gift of tongues was used in order to spread the message, just as it was written to be used by.

[Guest SP-1]

Indeed, IDRM, who knows. When it comes down to it, we'll just have to agree to disagree. And you are correct, in that first verse, the core concept is the motivation of love behind everything you do. very much so. But Paul still seems to make a distinction between different kinds of tongues, and I've seen no biblical evidence to the contrary. I'm open to it if it can be shown to me that it's said that the phenomenon stopped or will certainly stop again at some point. As it stands, we're at a standstill because either of us could be right. I hold to my stance because of personal experience.

 

Also: it's dangerous to put God in a box and start claiming that he doesn't do this or he only does that. He's GOD. If he wants to make a bush explode and start giving orders again, he certainly could, and if he is still using tongues, he certainly can. Just food for thought.

 

DH, there's some historical stuff I'll accept. And there's some that's sketchy. Same as with there are accepted Gospels and the Apocrypha. Whether you're talking about religion or not. But do hit me up on AIM at some point as I'd love to see what you've got. Just not tonight.

[Guest Downhome]

DH, there's some historical stuff I'll accept. And there's some that's sketchy. Same as with there are accepted Gospels and the Apocrypha. Whether you're talking about religion or not. But do hit me up on AIM at some point as I'd love to see what you've got. Just not tonight.

Don't worry, we'll talk about it soon enough.

 

My dates and the such are not sketchy however, heh, it's very much cemented as fact. The only problem, is that MOST people in the Pentecostal church are not aware of it, and those that are over the church either don't know theirselves, or do not want it to be known.

 

Most who are in the Pentecostal church were raised there, taught for years, and never once think of questioning what they've seen over and over again, it's just a part of their life. Others joined the denomination at a very low point in their life, when they were truly vulnerable, depressed, or the such. The way that the Pentecostal denomination presents their church is very tricky. They use fast music, in your face antics, and basicly entertainment. Not to mention that they, more than most other Christian denominations use fear as a huge way to get new members.

 

I have so many problems with the Pentecostal movement, I don't even know where to begin. It just sickens me.