Guest DarthLordOfWrestling Report post Posted July 16, 2003 It just came to my head. Can you Hate a cruiser weight. You really can't. Why doesn't the WWE give one of these guys the title. I mean the I mean the World undisputed championship. Also who do you think are the best cruiser weights. Any that you hate. I don't hate any but my favorites are.... 1. Rey 2. Ultimo 3.Noble 4.Spanky( he's a considered cruiser weight right) 5. Kidman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Superstar Report post Posted July 16, 2003 It just came to my head. Can you Hate a cruiser weight. You really can't. Why doesn't the WWE give one of these guys the title. I mean the I mean the World undisputed championship. Also who do you think are the best cruiser weights. Any that you hate. I don't hate any but my favorites are.... 1. Rey 2. Ultimo 3.Noble 4.Spanky( he's a considered cruiser weight right) 5. Kidman LOL LOL LOL LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 16, 2003 This thread is just asking for trouble... Vince doesn't believe that small guys are draws. Vince believes that big guys are draws. This is a dated model of thinking, but does have it's basis in logic. I like to use the airport argument: If you see Billy Kidman walking in an airport, right besides Albert, who are you going to notice first?? Size attracts attention. Unfortunately, ability keeps it and Vince can't seem to grasp that notion and we get things like Nathan Jones. Another reason is that Vince is about 6'2. Vince thinks he can kick the ass of anyone smaller than him, cause you know, they're smaller than him and therefore lesser. Meltzer brought up this point on WC when talking about Jericho and why he isn't at where he should be. One more reason is because if Cruiserweights get pushed and they wrestle the cruiserweight style, and that style gets over, then the fans will come to expect that kind of wrestling every time out. Kinda like the TLC matches where you keep raising the bar. The style is so potentially damaging to wrestlers' careers that to keep up at the pace the WWE goes someone is bound to get hurt. Not to mention it upstages all the bigger guys and makes them seem 'lesser' because they can't do that kind of stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Insane Bump Machine Report post Posted July 16, 2003 One more reason is because if Cruiserweights get pushed and they wrestle the cruiserweight style, and that style gets over, then the fans will come to expect that kind of wrestling every time out. Kinda like the TLC matches where you keep raising the bar. The style is so potentially damaging to wrestlers' careers that to keep up at the pace the WWE goes someone is bound to get hurt. Not to mention it upstages all the bigger guys and makes them seem 'lesser' because they can't do that kind of stuff. Not every cruiserweight has to be a spot monkey/high flyer. Guys like Eddie, Chavo, Knoble, Daniels, Styles or American Dragon do not rely on the big spots. They are just very good wrestlers who happen to be cruiserweights. Even so-called 'high flyers' like Paul London or Spanky have proven that they can work good matches in a more mat-based style. It's just that in WWE, Cruiserweights = the little guys who fly around. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0 Report post Posted July 16, 2003 The first WWE undisputed champion was a former cruiserweight champion. That is all I can be bothered to say right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bababooey Report post Posted July 16, 2003 [ Not every cruiserweight has to be a spot monkey/high flyer. Guys like Eddie, Chavo, Knoble, Daniels, Styles or American Dragon do not rely on the big spots. They are just very good wrestlers who happen to be cruiserweights. Even so-called 'high flyers' like Paul London or Spanky have proven that they can work good matches in a more mat-based style. It's just that in WWE, Cruiserweights = the little guys who fly around. i agree. i think fans (specifically indy fans) can spot a "spot monkey" from a mile away and are getting alittle annoyed by spot fest. proof would be that on the east coast fans are starting to boo after that beginning spot that always ends with both gymnest staring at each other after a series of flips and what not. fans can appreciate a japanese style match that starts on the ground and builds up. that's my two cents Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Insane Bump Machine Report post Posted July 16, 2003 They should split (ARGH~!) the Smackdown roster into two entirely seperated weight classes. Heavies fight heavies, cruisers fight cruisers. Only tag teams are open to everybody. The WWE Cruiserweight Title gets treated with just as much importance as the newly called WWE Heavyweight Title. That would be great. It will never happen, but one can dream. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 16, 2003 I agree, except with the Tag Division thing... we'd still get things like Albert/Demott vs. Tajiri/Funaki aka "small guys gettin over the big guys" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Insane Bump Machine Report post Posted July 16, 2003 I agree, except with the Tag Division thing... we'd still get things like Albert/Demott vs. Tajiri/Funaki aka "small guys gettin over the big guys" If they really want they can fuck everything up, sure. But we could also get stuff like Haas/Benjamin vs. Ultimo/Rey. Would that rule? Oh yes, it would. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 16, 2003 But that would set up a natural pecking order. Who ever are the better team in the Tag team Division and whoever are the job guys will reflect which division (heavy or cruiser) is better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Insane Bump Machine Report post Posted July 16, 2003 But that would set up a natural pecking order. Who ever are the better team in the Tag team Division and whoever are the job guys will reflect which division (heavy or cruiser) is better. Not if the wins and losses are evenly spread. And you could have mixed tag teams where a Heavyweight teams with a Cruiserweight. How about Rhyno/Knoble or Cena/Spanky? I'd like to see that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 16, 2003 But c'mon, what are the odds of that happening? All the job guys would be cruiserweights with the odd "uber team" that would consist of the top to cruiserweight wrestlers contending for the tag titles but then, ultimately, losing the match.... you know, kinda like they are doing right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Insane Bump Machine Report post Posted July 16, 2003 On a sidenote, I just went to Ultimo Dragon's superstar page on wwe.com and it lists 'WCW Cruiserweight Champion, WCW Television Champion' as his career highlights. That's just sad. Especially when even Michael Cole acknowledges his run where he held 10 belts at once. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Insane Bump Machine Report post Posted July 16, 2003 But c'mon, what are the odds of that happening? All the job guys would be cruiserweights with the odd "uber team" that would consist of the top to cruiserweight wrestlers contending for the tag titles but then, ultimately, losing the match.... you know, kinda like they are doing right now. Of course it won't happen, at least not as long as Vince has control over the company. It's just fun to think about how great WWE could be with their current roster. Actually, it's not fun. It's depressing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest RavishingRickRudo Report post Posted July 16, 2003 I agree. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted July 16, 2003 i agree. i think fans (specifically indy fans) can spot a "spot monkey" from a mile away and are getting alittle annoyed by spot fest. proof would be that on the east coast fans are starting to boo after that beginning spot that always ends with both gymnest staring at each other after a series of flips and what not. I think I know what you mean. The segment that works around the wristlock? I think that may have started from the Hart family or something, because Bret/Owen do it at the start of their WM X match, and I've seen Benoit do it before, too. I think it was Owen who could nearly do cartwheels in that whole thing. I think eye-popping spotfests have their place, but it's when a big prize is up for grabs. That way the audience knows not to expect it all the time, and that character can become a big draw when booked to fight for a belt or trophy or whatever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted July 16, 2003 It just came to my head. Can you Hate a cruiser weight. You really can't. Why doesn't the WWE give one of these guys the title. I mean the World undisputed championship. The problem isn't that people hate the cruiserweights, its that people just don't care about the majority them in one way or another. I don't hate or love Kidman, so why should I pay money to watch him go and out and fight someone else? The only cruiserweight that really gets a reaction in WWE right now is Rey because the guy actualkly has a personality and the flashiest of the flashy movesets. He's a pop a minute sort of fellow. The problem that Rey and the other cruiserweights have is the perception that they really don't match up against the larger set and I personally can totally see that argument. Sure, skilled fighters can beat larger foes, but when you've giving up twice your own body weight and more I think you stretch that out beyond all common sense. Add to the equation that Rey is the only member of the cruiserweight division that actually has a hit and run sort of moveset and it totally explains why they aren't seen at the top of the card. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Insane Bump Machine Report post Posted July 16, 2003 The problem isn't that people hate the cruiserweights, its that people just don't care about the majority them in one way or another. I don't hate or love Kidman, so why should I pay money to watch him go and out and fight someone else? The only cruiserweight that really gets a reaction in WWE right now is Rey because the guy actualkly has a personality and the flashiest of the flashy movesets. He's a pop a minute sort of fellow. The problem that Rey and the other cruiserweights have is the perception that they really don't match up against the larger set and I personally can totally see that argument. Sure, skilled fighters can beat larger foes, but when you've giving up twice your own body weight and more I think you stretch that out beyond all common sense. Add to the equation that Rey is the only member of the cruiserweight division that actually has a hit and run sort of moveset and it totally explains why they aren't seen at the top of the card. That's why they need to totally seperate the two divisions and push both weight classes as equals. That's the only way to make big money with the smaller wrestlers. IF they would do that, they could sign the top indy guys like Daniels, AmDrag, Punk, Styles etc. and get rid of some of the current dead weight, so that they would have two equally strong divisions. Yeah, yeah. Will never happen. Oh well... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Goodear Report post Posted July 16, 2003 The problem with the weight divisions is that currently, you're only really hurting the smallest guys that weight like 200 pounds and lighter. Everyone from say Eddie Guerrero on upwards can actually compete against even the largest super heavyweights and not look totally lopsided. So by cutting the federation into thirds or whatever, you're restricting more people than you're freeing up. All it realistically takes is some booking forethought (that the WWE doesn't have by the way) and you can work around the tinys so that you don't dwarf them all the times. But to do that, you can't push them all the way to the tippy top. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Kahran Ramsus Report post Posted July 17, 2003 There are plenty of bad cruiserweights. Shannon Moore is one of the worst wrestlers on the roster. Kidman sucks too. The reason they don't push them is that other than Rey & Noble (which is the worst burying job in WWE), they don't have the ability to be a big draw. The DO push some of them. Look at Eddy Guerrero, even though he is no longer considered a CW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DarthLordOfWrestling Report post Posted July 18, 2003 There are plenty of bad cruiserweights. Shannon Moore is one of the worst wrestlers on the roster. Kidman sucks too. The reason they don't push them is that other than Rey & Noble (which is the worst burying job in WWE), they don't have the ability to be a big draw. The DO push some of them. Look at Eddy Guerrero, even though he is no longer considered a CW. Shannon and Kidman were both great in WCW. Kidman was awsome in Filthy animals as Shannon was great in 3-count Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Jobber of the Week Report post Posted July 19, 2003 Another reason is that Vince is about 6'2. Vince thinks he can kick the ass of anyone smaller than him, cause you know, they're smaller than him and therefore lesser. I'm sure the same sort of thoughts were running through Fuck Goldberg's mind when he decided to pick on Jericho. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest bob_barron Report post Posted July 19, 2003 There are plenty of bad cruiserweights. Shannon Moore is one of the worst wrestlers on the roster. Kidman sucks too. The reason they don't push them is that other than Rey & Noble (which is the worst burying job in WWE), they don't have the ability to be a big draw. The DO push some of them. Look at Eddy Guerrero, even though he is no longer considered a CW. Shannon and Kidman were both great in WCW. Kidman was awsome in Filthy animals as Shannon was great in 3-count Shannon was never really in a singles match or in a match that could show us if he sucked or not. I'm glad Kahran also noticed that he sucks Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
