Ring of Honor.. will it

[Guest Your Olympic Hero]

I used to be a hardcore wrestling fan, refusing to miss a show. The WWE has gotten so stale lately that I haven't watched any programming since Wrestlemania. I've heard that ROH is a good alternative to WWE programming.

 

What I'm looking for is a promotion that has interesting storylines, and a good mixture of high spots, stiff wrestling, and some technical wrestling as well.

 

I'm considering ordering the first ROH show on DVD to check it out. Think I will fall in love w/ it?

[Guest Zack Malibu]

ROH has a perfect blend of crazy high spots, hardcore train wrecks, and technical masterpieces. The action is what will enthrall you, because storyline wise, they suck at booking.

[Guest Lightning Flik]

ROH has a perfect blend of crazy high spots, hardcore train wrecks, and technical masterpieces. The action is what will enthrall you, because storyline wise, they suck at booking.

Storylines that suck ass, but the in ring work rules?

 

Hm... Maybe I'll get a copy of them... Now if only I knew of a reliable supply that would take money orders... [hint: help]

[Guest Youth N Asia]

ROH is good. But not near as good as it's given credit for

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Are you sick of what the WWE gives us week after week? Then you will love ROH. Go to a live show too if possible to get an even better feel for the promotion. Their events in person kick ass......

[Guest Goodear]

At least in the early shows as far as I can tell from a comp tape I got to watch, the storylines are very simplistic but all of them focus on inring activity.

 

The whole Low Ki/Christoher Daniels thing focuses entirely on the lack of respect Daniels has for other workers as evidenced by his lack of hand shaking. The Briscoes feud centers around Mark laughing at Jay losing matches while safetly hiding behind the Pennsylvania atheletic commission's age ristrictions. The former members of the Texas Wrestling Acadamy fight to see just who is going to be the best person to come out of the school.

 

See, to me, those seem like completely feasible reasons to actually have a match with someone else. There isn't a lot of fancy production or anything like that, but it works in that everyone involved (at least in the top of the card) seems to take the craft very, very seriosuly.

[Guest HollywoodSpikeJenkins]

The CM Punk vs. Raven feud has a good storyline...

[Guest Zack Malibu]

The CM Punk vs. Raven feud has a good storyline...

I've got the feeling that that's because Raven has more than enough input to it, plus likes Punk and wants him to get over.

 

I'm not accusing ROH of "burial booking" where people are made to look bad/held down/etc. but, for example, look at the ROH Title lineage:

 

Low-Ki

Xavier

Samoa Joe

 

From indy darling to lowcard heel to boring tweener? Not exactly the best way to establish the belt.

 

Having London win it this weekend would have been great for the company (homegrown star, big title win, etc.) but we know it won't happen now.

[Guest Lightning Flik]

Are you sick of what the WWE gives us week after week? Then you will love ROH. Go to a live show too if possible to get an even better feel for the promotion. Their events in person kick ass......

Yes... Rub it into a guy who WILL NEVER be able to see an event live as he LIVES IN THE PLAINS OF ALBERTA~!

 

But if I do ever make the chance to out the east coast, I will definitely go see a show.

[syxx2001 0]

I have some ROH shows. If you want them let me know.

 

I normally watch for the matches, I could careless about the storylines. They could be like boxing and have people go out and fight and I would watch. MLW, ROH and TNA are good alternatives, although the first 2 are the only ones who put on good consistant shows.

[Guest ShooterJay]

I've complained endlessly about how London should have won the belt back at the 1st Anniversary show. It would have been a great emotional moment to cap off the show and make it memorable.

 

Right now, Punk and AJ are the only viable options for the belt after Joe.

[Guest Smell the ratings!!!]

Well I'm only seeing RoH on a match by match basis and it's getting me re-interested in wrestling. I just saw Dragon and Low Ki in the Round Robin final by the way, good jeebus that was a helluva match.

[Guest Markingout]

I say check out MLW..Story wise ROH sucks.Ring wise its the best. MLW has pretty good ring work, but great story lines if you ask me.

[Guest Lightning Flik]

I say check out MLW..Story wise ROH sucks.Ring wise its the best. MLW has pretty good ring work, but great story lines if you ask me.

Cool. I'll keep them in mind as well.

[Guest Jimmy Saint]

What I'm looking for is a promotion that has interesting storylines, and a good mixture of high spots, stiff wrestling, and some technical wrestling as well.

Well it has no good storylines and the few it does try the smart fans who go to the shows tend to kill them of and ruin them. It has had its fair share of good matches over the past year and a bit though which include lots of innovative moves and stiff and fairly good technical wrestling. I would suggest you just get a tape dealer to make up a comp for you instead, skipping out all the crap.

 

edit - oh yeah and NOAH has all those things by the way and is much much better.

Edited July 17, 2003 by Jimmy Saint

[Guest bob_barron]

The CM Punk vs. Raven feud has a good storyline...

I've got the feeling that that's because Raven has more than enough input to it, plus likes Punk and wants him to get over.

 

I'm not accusing ROH of "burial booking" where people are made to look bad/held down/etc. but, for example, look at the ROH Title lineage:

 

Low-Ki

Xavier

Samoa Joe

 

From indy darling to lowcard heel to boring tweener? Not exactly the best way to establish the belt.

 

Having London win it this weekend would have been great for the company (homegrown star, big title win, etc.) but we know it won't happen now.

Samoa Joe is not a boring tweener. The crowd loves him and is title reign has been awesome and very well booked.

 

People like Daniels, Low Ki, Dragon et all don't need the built to be over. Having the ROH title helps Samoa Joe become more over (which he is), while still giving like Daniels the chance to still put on great matches.

 

Give Joe a break- He's a great worker who can work many different styles.

[Guest Randy Pan]

I have heard countless complaints about RoH storylines.

 

I don't buy any episodes, but download whatever I find and the matches are highly entertaining.

 

As for it being an alternative to the WWE, I don't see it that way. There are no fireworks, fancy lighting or people who cant wrestle that refuse to job. It is a very different product. There is no WWE "alternative" at the moment, just alot of indies doing their own thing.

[Guest Jimmy Saint]

Samoa Joe is not a boring tweener. The crowd loves him and is title reign has been awesome and very well booked.

 

People like Daniels, Low Ki, Dragon et all don't need the built to be over. Having the ROH title helps Samoa Joe become more over (which he is), while still giving like Daniels the chance to still put on great matches.

 

Give Joe a break- He's a great worker who can work many different styles.

Almost every wrestling fed in the history of wrestling has usally had the belt on the most or near enough the most over guy in fed. Why should ROH stick to this 'well it will help him get over' booking of the belt ? its never worked anywhere else.

 

 

 

That run as champ killed Xavier with ROH's key fanbase ie internet smarts. A pity as well as Xavier in alot of ways is one of the more talented workers in the company.

[Guest bob_barron]

But why waste the belt on a guy like Daniels or Low Ki who are super over and would be with or without a belt?

 

It's like the NWA never giving LOD the tag belts.

 

Xavier was criminally underrated as a champ. The guy MADE London a star and he doesn't get enough credit for it.

 

I think a lot of people are pissed about Joe since the crowd was ready to blow their load any time London had a near fall while they weren't emotionally invested in Joe as they were with London.

 

But because of Joe's good regin as champion the fans are starting to respond to him and he's becoming more and more over.

 

I wouldn't have given London the title at 7.19 since he really has no immediate feuds. Joe has ready made feuds with Daniels, Low Ki and a rematch with Homicide.

[Guest Youth N Asia]

ROH should have had their belt on a bigger name to boost the promotion a little. They seemed to put the belt on people you wouldn't expect just for the hell of it. Almost saying "we want you to like this guy."

[syxx2001 0]

Xavier is over rated. I think he sucks. Thats just me.

 

And I think it would help if RoH did like TNA did and put one of their belts on the line in another company.

[Guest Jimmy Saint]

But why waste the belt on a guy like Daniels or Low Ki who are super over and would be with or without a belt?

 

It's like the NWA never giving LOD the tag belts.

 

Xavier was criminally underrated as a champ. The guy MADE London a star and he doesn't get enough credit for it.

 

I think a lot of people are pissed about Joe since the crowd was ready to blow their load any time London had a near fall while they weren't emotionally invested in Joe as they were with London.

 

But because of Joe's good regin as champion the fans are starting to respond to him and he's becoming more and more over.

 

I wouldn't have given London the title at 7.19 since he really has no immediate feuds. Joe has ready made feuds with Daniels, Low Ki and a rematch with Homicide.

I agree that Xavier was\is underated. That match with London on the 1st Anniverery show was great stuff especc after the poor spot exbition 3 way before it. But they should have pulled the plug sooner than they did. Infact they never should never have given him he belt in the first place.

 

 

Like Youth N Asia said you put the belt on a main event credible guy so you can run credible storylines to main events boosting the whole promotion. Then you build around that one guy.

 

As an example Doug Williams vs Christopher Daniels main events. Good solid matches yes but the crowd just sit on their hands for the most part through them. If Daniels had been champ it would have given the crowd somthing to give a shit about instead of clapping now and again because they liked that hammerlock counter Williams just did.

 

 

 

And ROH ain't no mid 80's NWA business wise and they have noone anywhere near as over as the Road Warriers were. I mean the WWE right now have no tag team as over as they were. Which negates that point

[Placebo Effect 0]

I seriously do not get the hype for the Raven/Punk feud. I've watched all the events, seen the promos, etc. and while I love the feud simply because it's getting CM Punk over, it's not rocket science.

 

The gimmick Raven has is grungy. Grungy is associated with drugs, which Raven has done in the past. Punk lives the life of a straight edge, and people in Philly hate clean cut people. Thus, Punk hates Raven for representing a society of druggies.

 

There hasn't been much to the fued. Cabana turned on Raven in the tag match, and if Russo did something like that (Cabana took punishment in the match, and why wouldn't he just do it in the first place?), you'd be all over him for it. Plus, why'd Daniels tag with Raven? Wasn't he a heel competing in a four-way tag the month before (unless this was explained at the show in-between, which I haven't taken a look at yet). I like the feud, but it's not as if something with CM Punk and Raven, with a simple backstory like that (one which I guarantee had very little to do with Gabe or Rob), is a feud of the century.

[EL DANDY~! 0]

What I don't get is why not give somebody who is an established indy star, like a Daniels or a Lo Ki or even AJ Styles who's running with the NWA belt, and let them have an elongated title reign. I'm all for building up new stars and such, but right now, you got AJ on the roll of his life, Daniels is the best indy wrestler ever, and Lo Ki is good enough to the point where he can hang with anybody.

 

I think TNA has it right with Styles. They're gonna let him have the belt for a while, methinks, because if he becomes anywhere near credible in the big picture, I'd look for a TV deal to see HIM as the future of that company. Samoa Joe, although I like him, doesn't seem like that breakout star that could lead ROH out of nothing more than an ECW-like fan base. They need somebody to break out and become a star, and right now, I think letting Daniels or Lo Ki or Dragon or AJ run with the ball is what they need to REALLY put the company over the top. That's just my opinion.

[Guest bob_barron]

Xavier is over rated. I think he sucks. Thats just me.

 

And I think it would help if RoH did like TNA did and put one of their belts on the line in another company.

How is Xavier overrated when no one likes him?

 

And they did- The ROH title was defended at an FWA Show

[Guest bob_barron]

I agree that Xavier was\is underated. That match with London on the 1st Anniverery show was great stuff especc after the poor spot exbition 3 way before it. But they should have pulled the plug sooner than they did. Infact they never should never have given him he belt in the first place.

 

Xavier should've have been built up before being given the title. He has a feud with Scoot Andrews and now he can beat Low Ki, London and AJ? Right.

 

 

Like Youth N Asia said you put the belt on a main event credible guy so you can run credible storylines to main events boosting the whole promotion. Then you build around that one guy.

 

And Samoa Joe isn't a main event credible guy?

 

He took Low Ki to the limit at Glory by Honor.

Won the fall for his team at ASE.

Had a brutal strong style match v. Homicide

Lasted 45 minutes with three of the best wrestlers in the world at Final Battle

Split two matches with American Dragon

To earn the #1 contendership he defeated Homicide, EZ and Whitmer.

 

I think he's pretty credible.

 

As an example Doug Williams vs Christopher Daniels main events. Good solid matches yes but the crowd just sit on their hands for the most part through them. If Daniels had been champ it would have given the crowd somthing to give a shit about instead of clapping now and again because they liked that hammerlock counter Williams just did.

 

Not really- London and Dragon have had classics that didn't involve the title and the crowd was into them. If the match is good- the crowd will be into it- title match or not.

 

 

And ROH ain't no mid 80's NWA business wise and they have noone anywhere near as over as the Road Warriers were. I mean the WWE right now have no tag team as over as they were. Which negates that point

 

No point was negated there- You just didn't understand it.

[Guest bob_barron]

I seriously do not get the hype for the Raven/Punk feud. I've watched all the events, seen the promos, etc. and while I love the feud simply because it's getting CM Punk over, it's not rocket science.

 

It has a lot of the same things as the Dreamer v. Raven feud did- I think a lot of people like the fact that Raven is getting his karma.

 

There hasn't been much to the fued. Cabana turned on Raven in the tag match, and if Russo did something like that (Cabana took punishment in the match, and why wouldn't he just do it in the first place?), you'd be all over him for it.

 

No- CM Punk has Cabana as a minion or lackey. So Cabana is willing to take punishment just to help out Punk and mindfuck Raven.

 

Plus, why'd Daniels tag with Raven?

 

Do or Die- He had issues with Punk dating back to that/

 

Wasn't he a heel competing in a four-way tag the month before

 

With the breakup of the Group- he's more of a tweener.

 

I like the feud, but it's not as if something with CM Punk and Raven, with a simple backstory like that (one which I guarantee had very little to do with Gabe or Rob), is a feud of the century.

 

Well it's better then any of the other feuds that we've seen recently.

[Guest bob_barron]

What I don't get is why not give somebody who is an established indy star, like a Daniels or a Lo Ki or even AJ Styles who's running with the NWA belt, and let them have an elongated title reign.

 

Because- They're already established- Ring of Honor is going to still have the same fanbase whether those guys or champs or not. Why not let the title get elevated and elevate a wrestler at the time.

 

I'm all for building up new stars and such, but right now, you got AJ on the roll of his life

 

I didn't know being chickenshit champion counts as roll of his life. I would think the roll of his life would be when he was booked strongly.

 

Daniels is the best indy wrestler ever

 

Who doesn't need the belt.

 

I think TNA has it right with Styles.

 

By making him look like a chickenshit champion?

 

They're gonna let him have the belt for a while, methinks, because if he becomes anywhere near credible in the big picture, I'd look for a TV deal to see HIM as the future of that company.

 

I don't think booking your company around a loser is the best way to make your company look credible.

 

Samoa Joe, although I like him, doesn't seem like that breakout star that could lead ROH out of nothing more than an ECW-like fan base.

 

They're not really looking for that.

 

They need somebody to break out and become a star, and right now, I think letting Daniels or Lo Ki or Dragon or AJ run with the ball is what they need to REALLY put the company over the top. That's just my opinion.

 

They're not trying to get a TV deal though- They're happy with where they are at the moment.

[syxx2001 0]

Bob, some people said Xavier is underrated and I say he is over rated.

[Guest bob_barron]

The majority of people hate him though. I'm one of the very few who liked him. So to call him overrarted would be a bit of a misnomer.