Ring of Honor.. will it

[Guest BionicRedneck]

Xavier is indeed shit.

 

Daniels is the best indy wrestler ever? WTF?!

[Guest Markingout]

ROH should have had their belt on a bigger name to boost the promotion a little. They seemed to put the belt on people you wouldn't expect just for the hell of it. Almost saying "we want you to like this guy."

 

ROH lets there ring work speak,they are using the approch WWF did in 98' establish stars that arent established. If Christopher Daniels was champion, it wouldn't matter because people just wanted too see great ring work and the good stuff ROH is known for

 

I think TNA has it right with Styles

 

By making him look like a chickenshit champion?

 

No they are building him as a strong heel that you want to hate because he cant do things on his own. I guess you can call it chickenshit ,but its a strong gimmick that works.

[Guest bob_barron]

I guess you can call it chickenshit ,but its a strong gimmick that works.

 

Like it did for Angle and Jericho?

[syxx2001 0]

And Bob I meant putting their title on the line in the US. Like on Wildside TV or a TNA show or MLW. And Jericho wasn't built like Styles is. Jericho was like the 4 year old brother mixed up in a fight between his 6 year old brother and his best friend. Jericho was a puppet in between the feud between Stephanie and Triple H. You could say the same thing about Russo and Jarrett, but at least Jarrett has branched off and is feuded with Legend and and Styles is feuding with D'Lo.

[Guest bob_barron]

Those of you who doubt Samoa Joe as champion need to watch Do or Die. Now.

[Guest kane3212321]

If you want a good balance of storylines and wrestling, OVW might be the thing you want to track down. I mean they actually made me care about Bull Buchanan!

[Chunk 0]

Those of you who doubt Samoa Joe as champion need to watch Do or Die. Now.

His debut against Ki was enough to get him over with me. The title match you mentioned at FWA FOH was also a very good encounter.

 

I dont agree with the decision they made to take the belt off Ki and put it on Xavier, but i can see the benefits of using the title to build new main event stars, as long as they are ready for the main event scene.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

Wow, tons of stuff to respond to.

 

Joe as Champion:

 

People who are saying that Joe and Xavier shouldn't have been champions are the same people who think the WEEEEEEEEE needs to make new stars and have new champions. Contradictory?

 

Joe as a champion works in many ways. First, he is a legit bigger guy, which always builds creditability around the belt. Second, he can work with almost anyone, unlike a Lo Ki. Third, he is an above average wrestler.

 

In 1992, when Sting put over Vader at the GAB, do you think anyone would have considered Vader anything more than a monster wrestler who was average? Vader got his chance to shine and had the best North American feid of the 1990's.

 

ROH Booking:

 

People who say they can't book are loony. Tons of good booking. There is always some wackiness but that can be expected from any promotion.

 

Tim

[Guest Dynamite Kido]

Bob I'm with you on the Xavier, with some work and experience I think the guy could be a big part of ROH or any fed....

[Guest Deviant]

Xavier is not as bad as many people make him out to be. I think his run as champion was actually quite well done. People say he wasn't credible, but these same people ride every single two count because of that belief. Fact is, he had some stellar matches while champion, and you can't attribute that completely to his opponents.

 

What the hell is wrong with Samoa Joe as champion?

 

Why would ROH want to put a belt on a guy like Daniels at that point in their exsistance? Don't get me wrong, he's my favourite wrestler right now, but the "He doesn't need the belt" point is as valid as is humanly possible. Also, with Daniels as champion, you follow a tonne of other companies.

 

ROH established their title with the first four shows and Low Ki as their first champion. Then Xavier had one of the best vulnerable heel runs imaginable, while perhaps not deserving it, but it beats the fuck out of HHH. Now you have Samoa Joe, who has more than enough credibility and great matches to justify the booking, as well as being built up correctly, as shown.

 

ROH's angles are simplistic, but effective. Then you have something like Raven-Punk which is just brilliant.

 

Daniels teamed with Raven because with the Group gone, the Second City Saints were his top competition. He also had heat with Punk. The team with Raven was a logical one.

 

MLW is okay, but nowhere near ROH. Their storylines are okay, and they have some awesome wrestling. However, ROH has the same hybrid wrestling theory. Only ROH does it better. You can have Sandman or you can have CM Punk, Da Hit Squad and such in hardcore matches. The Scramble spotfests always deliver exactly what they're known for. You can have Mike Awesome and a belt that changes with the wind because of schedules, or you can have Samoa Joe and lengthy, entertaining championship reigns. The choice is your's.

 

However, aren't we smarks? Aren't we supposed to value wrestling over all? And aren't we supposed to be begging for a product that keeps wrestling as the focus but provides good storylines to compliment the matches? Jesus, that is the definition of ROH isn't it?

[syxx2001 0]

Fuck that. If the storylines makes sense then I'm all for it. I dont buy a man wearing a fucking mask taking a girl out on a date and killing her.

[Guest Jimmy Saint]

However, aren't we smarks? Aren't we supposed to value wrestling over all? And aren't we supposed to be begging for a product that keeps wrestling as the focus but provides good storylines to compliment the matches? Jesus, that is the definition of ROH isn't it?

Yes and thats why they get away with it [awful booking] and probably always will.

 

 

 

 

Bob I think you miss the point in that NWA were at the time one of the biggest promotions in the world and could do this [plus they usaully had the most over guy as the main champ ie Ric Flair]. ROH arn't even the biggest Indy in Philly, business wise CZW kill them in ticket sales and mecrendise etc.

 

The NWA titles had a great lineage and history behind them. Aside from the very start the history of the ROH title has been sketchy to put it lightly. If they continue to use it to try and get people over it never will have much credibilty in most peoples eyes. They need a secondry belt to do this with, you don't and should'nt be doing it with your main title.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

What's sketchy about it? A screwjob switched the title the first time.

 

*Thinks back to NWA Title and Flair retaining on screwjobs 90% of the time*

 

Xavier defenses were all clean, in a 2002-2003 sense.

 

Joe beats Xavier in the middle via tap out. Clean.

 

Joe's defenses have been clean as a whistle?

 

Whats your point?

 

Tim

[Guest JHawk]

My take on Samoa Joe as champion:

 

Samoa Joe has been booked pretty well as champion in the sense that he'll offer to defend it when he doesn't have to because he wants to be recognized as a "World Champion". Plus his matches are usually stiff as hell.

 

The problem comes in the fact that there are other people that fans want to hold the title, and that's affecting the crowd reactions at some of his matches. I was at Retribution (Round Robin Challenge II) and the crowd completely shit on the finish of Joe vs. Doug Williams. Whether it's because of the choke sleeper variation he used or because they wanted Williams to go over, who knows, but it told me that they should have considered a title change right there.

 

Since London can't hold it at this point, I'd like to see CM Punk take it.

[syxx2001 0]

I think he is trying to say that you put the title on AJ Styles, American Dragon, Christopher Daniels, and Low Ki. And feud them with the midcarders. Feud Styles and Michael Shane. Feud Dragon and Xavier. And Daniels and Low Ki. You dont give the WWE title to Christian to get him over. In EWR terms, doing that would take the title prestige from 90 to 70 and then letting him defend cleanly for a few months (this guy has been a pussy heel for his whole career) and it could take the prestige back up to 80 or 85.

[Guest Tim Cooke]

"The problem comes in the fact that there are other people that fans want to hold the title, and that's affecting the crowd reactions at some of his matches. I was at Retribution (Round Robin Challenge II) and the crowd completely shit on the finish of Joe vs. Doug Williams. Whether it's because of the choke sleeper variation he used or because they wanted Williams to go over, who knows, but it told me that they should have considered a title change right there."

 

Wow, one crowd shits on a finish and you go into panic mode?

 

The finish made perfect sense. He finished Xavier on 3/22 with it and Colt Cabana on 4/12. My guess is the crowd just didn't get it therefore let's boo. Kind of like WEEE fans booing when two cruisers actually try to build a match without highspots.

 

Tim

[Guest Jimmy Saint]

Whats your point?

 

Tim

Try actually reading some of my posts on this thread.

[Guest ChaosTheory]

I digging Joe as champ and looking forward to his match with CM Punk and possible title defenses in the future against Christopher Daniels and Low-Ki.