Guest evenflowDDT Report post Posted July 17, 2003 Dino Fossil Recovered at Loch Ness AFP July 16, 2003 — A Scottish retiree has discovered a fossil of a 150-million-year-old reptile on the shores of Scotland's mythical Loch Ness, press reports said Wednesday. Retired junkyard dealer Gerald McSorley, 67, said he "literally tripped over" the algae-covered fossil in shallow water near Loch Ness, Scotland's most famous inland body of water. He took it to experts at the National Museum of Scotland in Edinburgh, where the fossil was confirmed to be that of a plesiosaur, a long-necked sea reptile about 150 million years old. "I have always believed in the Loch Ness Monster, but this proves it for me. The resemblance between this and the sightings which have been made are so similar," McSorley told Scotland's The Daily Record newspaper. The fossil shows four well-preserved vertebrae, complete with spinal cord and blood vessels, set in grey limestone. "The plesiosaur is the image people have of the Loch Ness Monster," said paleontologist Lyall Anderson. "But Loch Ness is a glacially scoured trough created during the last Ice Age, which only finished about 12,000 years ago." The plesiosaur, a meat-eating reptile that grew to about 35 feet (11 meters) in length, probably went out with the dinosaurs. Stories of the Loch Ness monster, so enthusiastically promoted by the Scottish tourist industry, date back to the seventh century, when a water beast is said to have appeared before Saint Columba, the founder of Christianity in Scotland. Source: Discovery Channel Online It's made headlines, and not just at Weekly World News. I used to be really into this stuff when I was a kid, so now that there's finally some concrete evidence of the Nessie I'm excited. Sure, it doesn't tell us that any plesiosaurs are still in the lake today, but it lends a little more credence to Nessie's existence. I wonder if any expeditions/excavations will find more fossils, possibly even some "young" enough to indicate any plesiosaurs did survive in the area past the extinction of the dinosaur. There've been enough expeditions over the years that if a Nessie still existed in the lake it would've been found by now, but hey, you never know...maybe this'll spur up interest to find a living specimen again too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EricMM Report post Posted July 17, 2003 Lock ness is freaking huge and what with the murky water and caves and all, it's possible that something could be hiding. That said, it's suspicious that nothing NOTHING has been concretely confirmed yet. But it's one of those things the kid in me hopes is true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Plushy Al Logan Report post Posted July 17, 2003 ::Frowns at dissapointment:: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest DrTom Report post Posted July 17, 2003 So there was a Loch Ness monster 150 million years ago? I can live with that. There certainly hasn't been one anytime in recent history, though, which quite a few expeditions have proven. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2003 It's not impossible that Loch Ness has provided a "Lost World" environment isolated from the rest of the world, but if there were plasiosaurs in Loch Ness, they wouldn't have been isolated until the last Ice Age, many millions of years after the K/T boundary. This would suggest that plesiosaurs would be found from a lot more recently than they have been. Also, it is likely that the creature would be highly specified and highly evolved compared to Mesozoic plesiosaurs. So, personally, I am deeply sceptical. There you go. The first and last time I'm going to use my Palaeontology degree... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest SP-1 Report post Posted July 17, 2003 Well, if there ever is something found roaming the Loch, it'll be damn cool. I just hope it's in my lifetime. And as a sidenote, I've been thinking for a long time that it might just be a surviving race of dinosaurs. It's always seemed the best theory to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Amazing Rando Report post Posted July 17, 2003 I've always wanted something to be found too.... I wish they'd just drain the lake like on the Simpsons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lethargic Report post Posted July 17, 2003 Are you people really telling me that this picture isn't concrete evidence?? haha Doesn't Loch Ness empty into the ocean? I seem to remember that the most realistic theory is that some kind of fish or ocean life accidently swims into the Loch every now and then and people see it and freak out. It'd be kinda hard to drain the ocean I think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vyce Report post Posted July 18, 2003 I think there's more of a chance that a live dino could be found in Africa, i.e. mokele mbembe. BTW, shouldn't we be approaching a level of scientific advancement where we can engineer dinos, a la Jurassic Park? They want to do it with a Mammoth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0 Report post Posted July 18, 2003 I think there's more of a chance that a live dino could be found in Africa, i.e. mokele mbembe. BTW, shouldn't we be approaching a level of scientific advancement where we can engineer dinos, a la Jurassic Park? They want to do it with a Mammoth. It's impossible to genetically engineer dinos without generations of research or incredibly well preserved fossils being found. The reason it is being considered in mammoths is that their mode of preservation is such that their DNA isn't denatured to the point of not being repaired. Of course, there's no real reason to engineer dinosaurs, so it's unlikely any scientific body would sanction it. Goddammit, my degree has ruined my fun Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CoreyLazarus416 Report post Posted July 18, 2003 I think that if anything IS in Loch Ness, it's an evolved species of some prehistoric sea organism. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Lethargic Report post Posted July 18, 2003 This all begs the question.... If they cloned a dinosaur, would you eat it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CoreyLazarus416 Report post Posted July 18, 2003 Depends if it was flame-broiled and I had my Lea & Perrens' steak sauce... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest JMA Report post Posted July 18, 2003 This all begs the question.... If they cloned a dinosaur, would you eat it? Possibly. Still, I would feel kind of guilty about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Mad Dog Report post Posted July 18, 2003 I'm not saying there is anything there. I really doubt it but I'll throw this in. As for there not being evidence. The Loch Ness is huge. At the camp I work at we have a tiny lake that's about 30 ft. deep. There's a giant snapping turtle in the lake and maybe 2 people see it every year. I've been there for 5 yrs. and have never seen the thing. But if you figure if something can hide in such a small area then it could be possible for no one to have ever seen it. But I think there's a better chance of finding a dinosaur roaming around in the jungles of Africa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EricMM Report post Posted July 18, 2003 Shame on all of you! I'd say dinos are a very endangered species You'll be asking for dodo egg omelettes soon too... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Vyce Report post Posted July 18, 2003 This all begs the question.... If they cloned a dinosaur, would you eat it? YES. Damn it, I can't wait for Mammoth burgers to hit the market. You'll be asking for dodo egg omelettes soon too... Now I'm starving. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest evenflowDDT Report post Posted July 18, 2003 I think there's more of a chance that a live dino could be found in Africa, i.e. mokele mbembe. Despite seeing Baby a lot as a kid (and even owning some wack-ass little movie/picture book), I've never been able to get behind Mokele Mbembe. To my knowledge, there's been only one really shitty video of it ever captured, as opposed to the plethora of shitty photos and high-quality faked photos and videos of Ms. Nessie. Most of the rest of the evidence is based on native sightings, IIRC; the same kind of natives that call helicopters "giant whirly birds". The theory was popular in the '80s, but I don't believe any expeditions ever turned up any reliable evidence; I seem to recall a sighting or plaster of a footprint, but I could be getting my mystery creatures mixed up. Wow, cryptozoological discussion in the current events folder, who'd a thunk it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest CoreyLazarus416 Report post Posted July 19, 2003 Cryptozoology is fun. Next up, EL CHUPACABRAS~! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest evenflowDDT Report post Posted July 20, 2003 Hmmm...business must not be too good at the Loch this summer... Another, somewhat related news piece. La Chupacabra's interesting to me, but I think if they lived anywhere it wouldn't be Central America but in the less accessible rainforest and jungle areas of South America. There's thousands of undiscovered species in there...although with habitat decimation and all (is there still a big deal about "Save the Rainforest" and the like? Haven't kept up on environmentalism in a while...I'm still worried about acid rain ), they can't remain undiscovered for long. And since these habitats are being destroyed for farmland, it makes sense that these new predators would feast on the "invading" farm-life. Mmmm, goat... Have there ever been any photos of La Chupacabra? I know there was a Troma film, but I don't think that really counts as reliable evidence... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EricMM Report post Posted July 20, 2003 (is there still a big deal about "Save the Rainforest" and the like? Haven't kept up on environmentalism in a while...I'm still worried about acid rain ) YES! Every day acres and acres of forest are slashed and burned to be turned into crop land. Do you know how long it takes a rainforest to form? A LONG TIME! And once it's gone, it'll be GONE. Copared to the deforestation and desertification of the third world, acid rain is nothing although it still sucks. Go cleaner factories!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest J*ingus Report post Posted July 20, 2003 It's not impossible that Loch Ness has provided a "Lost World" environment isolated from the rest of the world, but if there were plasiosaurs in Loch Ness, they wouldn't have been isolated until the last Ice Age, many millions of years after the K/T boundary. This would suggest that plesiosaurs would be found from a lot more recently than they have been. Also, it is likely that the creature would be highly specified and highly evolved compared to Mesozoic plesiosaurs. The main problem with the plesiosaur theory of Loch Ness rests in the creature's biology and habits. Dinosaurs, like all other reptilian and aviary creatures, breathed oxygen through lungs, and didn't have gills. Ergo, any dinosaurian Nessie would have to come to the surface every so often just in order to survive. Considering that the creature would be fairly large in size, and considering the hordes of photographers and tourists in and around the loch at all times, makes it extremely improbable that anything like a plesiosaur could be living in the loch. Tom, I'd disagree that the expeditions have proven that there is no Loch Ness Monster, just because of the size and nature of the loch. It's 28 miles long, a mile across in many places, and often over 800 feet deep. And besides that, the water is so thoroughly saturated with peat that it's impossible to see more than a dozen feet ahead, even during the day, with high-powered underwater lights. If any lake in the world was well-suited to hiding something strange, it'd be Loch Ness. And yes Leth, Loch Ness does sorta connect to the ocean. But it does so over the River Ness, which at times is only three feet deep, and goes through several boat locks. As for whether the monster exists or not, I don't know. I've seen a few photos and videos which are hard to explain, but then again none of them are anywhere near concrete proof towards some strange creature's existence. And evenflow, Herzog is gonna make a Loch Ness movie?! That will so rule. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest EricMM Report post Posted July 20, 2003 what if the Loch Ness Monster, or whatever species it is, evolved gills around the time we were learning to get down from the trees? Considering that we've evolved SINCE the dinosaurs, if any dinos still exist they probably changed too. Well, lots of animals are the same since the dinosaur's time (cockroaches, horseshoe crabs) but it's possible a dino could have evolved to live deep underwater for some reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rising up out of the back seat-nuh 0 Report post Posted July 20, 2003 Well, birds can technicaly be considered dinosaurs, but that's beside the point... The main problem with any Loch Ness creature is that in order to survive there would have to be a large enough number of creature to enable genetic fitness. I forget how you work it out exactly, but in order for a species to survive and not become "inbred" the community has to be fairly large, and I don't think that Loch Ness is big enough to support this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest evenflowDDT Report post Posted July 21, 2003 I forget how you work it out exactly, but in order for a species to survive and not become "inbred" the community has to be fairly large, and I don't think that Loch Ness is big enough to support this. I have no knowledge on the subject...so what difference does it make whether or not a species is inbred if they're the dominant predator in their habitat? Could they really become that genetically weak that they'd lose the incredible advantages they have over their prey? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest wrestlingbs Report post Posted July 26, 2003 I believe the people who took the photo Lethargic showed have admitted to faking it. They said they used a toy boat with a wooden cutout on the top. However, Nessie could still be out there. Some species of fish, which once thought to be long extinct, have been caught alive by fishermen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest ErekT2k Report post Posted July 26, 2003 I guess there are still hopes for the abdominal snowman too. And there are obviously unknown species yet to have be discovered. The ocean hides so many things. There could be a species that lives in the deepest parts of the ocean and never surfaces. So far, I believe only the Giant Squid and the Sperm Whale are known to dive the deepest (known to man). Yet they don't touch the deepest parts of the ocean. Possibility of Nessie is always there.... along with Godzilla. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
