Guest Choken One Report post Posted July 21, 2003 To the person that said Shawn HALF-ASSED it on the house shows is a dumb fuck... Shawn and Owen went balls out like it was Mania Main event...Shawn and Hunter were incredible...Shawn had another pair of good matches on House Shows That I attended Hart always half-assed in Cincy as far as I was conerned... I guess Scott Keith brain-washed me or something. Instead of using examples of Shawn vs. another great wrestler (Owen) at house shows, how bout some of him vs. people who sucked (Did he ever wrestle Sid in house shows?). Sure...He had a Pretty damn solid 7 minute match with Salavatore in 1996... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest The Hollywood Fashion Plate Report post Posted July 21, 2003 Well, I saw Shawn half ass a match against Goldust in 12/96 where he went less than 7 minutes to a quick superkick finish, then danced around for 10 minutes after. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Loss4Words Report post Posted July 21, 2003 In the build to Summerslam '96, all correspondents were reporting that Michaels was having horrible matches with Vader, in that Vader was trying, but Michaels seemed uninterested. This, obviously, is not something I saw with my own eyes, but it was being reported by every correspondent in every town. There's an example of Shawn having a bad match when opposite a good worker, which I think proves that he didn't consider house shows a priority. In all honesty, aside from Ric Flair, there haven't been too many house show workhorses that wrestled all out each and every night. So from that respect, criticizing Michaels for it is unfair, but calling him "the greatest" is unfounded also. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffin Surfer Report post Posted July 21, 2003 At a House Show I once a Shawn Micheals/Lex Lugar match that went under a minute. Here's the whole match: Luger whipped Shawn into the corner, charged in, SUPER KICK! End of the match. But you can't criticize a wrestler for bad house show performances as Loss4words said. Even Kawada and Misawa half assed during untaped house shows. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Betty Houle 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2003 In the build to Summerslam '96, all correspondents were reporting that Michaels was having horrible matches with Vader, in that Vader was trying, but Michaels seemed uninterested. This, obviously, is not something I saw with my own eyes, but it was being reported by every correspondent in every town. There's an example of Shawn having a bad match when opposite a good worker, which I think proves that he didn't consider house shows a priority. Vader sucked by 1996. In fact, I'm not sure if he ever was THAT good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted July 21, 2003 So those ****+ Matches for 2 years straight NEVER happened and was just a figment of our imagination... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Loss4Words Report post Posted July 21, 2003 Vader sucked by 1996. In fact, I'm not sure if he ever was THAT good. Not to be offensive, but that's a terribly ignorant statement. Vader is the best superheavyweight in the history of wrestling. His series against Sting holds up to ANY of the best work of Shawn Michaels. He was more agile than most guys half his size. He was a master at constructing a match. Vader had good matches with a variety of opponents in All Japan *after* 1996, which means that in 1996, he didn't suck. Don't get me wrong, Shawn was great, and I like and enjoy a large part of his work, but Vader was every bit the worker Shawn was, and actually had some strengths that Michaels didn't. As far as natural, God-given talent, I don't know if I've ever seen anyone better than Michaels. But his attitude and selfishness in most of his matches keeps him just shy of being an all-time great in my opinion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted July 21, 2003 I refuse to let my personal opinion of an Performer (in ANY venue) deflect his/her work... Bonds may be a PRICK defined but I would put him down as top 5 ALL TIME... Same with HBK but only TOP 15... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest saturnmark4life Report post Posted July 21, 2003 Shawn didn't vary his performances enough for me. I mean sure, neither did Flair, but Shawn just didn't hold my interest in terms of charisma the way Flair did. He carried those people through his sheer levels of energy rather than great wrestling. And I'd like the comment that he made Austin look like a million bucks from a while back stricken from the record, because that only happened in some mirror universe where he was better than Austin. How crazy is THAT?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted July 21, 2003 He HAD to be referering to The Mania Build Up and the Match itself because he was a KILLER heel that made the fans LOVE Austin's FUCK YOU attitude even more.... In the Said Mania Match...Shawn bumped like hell and pretty much put all he had in him out there for Austin... He never said HBK was BETTER...he just said he made Austin look like A millon bucks that night... It's been done...Lesser Wrestlers have Made better wrestlers look good Foley tends to be the BEST example. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest saturnmark4life Report post Posted July 21, 2003 Indeed, Shawn DESERVES all the credit in the WORLD for wrestling that match IN his condition. Good POINT about FOLEY. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted July 21, 2003 Exactly...Shawn could have HALF-ASSED it and had a Mat based match (which would've been fine but not for the HYPE this match had) but Shawn just went "FUCK IT ALL AND HAVE NO REGRETS". Don't get me wrong...Shawn bumped to make Austin look good of course but he KNEW that this was the biggest draw of his life and he wasn't gonna half ass it for anything in the world... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Betty Houle 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2003 Vader sucked by 1996. In fact, I'm not sure if he ever was THAT good. Vader had good matches with a variety of opponents in All Japan *after* 1996, which means that in 1996, he didn't suck. Since he didn't suck years after 1996, he couldn't have sucked then? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Betty Houle 0 Report post Posted July 21, 2003 Vader sucked by 1996. In fact, I'm not sure if he ever was THAT good. I thought he had some great matches with Sting and Cactus but don't think most of his other WCW/WWF matches were that good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Choken One Report post Posted July 21, 2003 He didn't SUCK...He just was WWEized. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Retro Rob Report post Posted July 21, 2003 Vader sucked by 1996. In fact, I'm not sure if he ever was THAT good. Vader had good matches with a variety of opponents in All Japan *after* 1996, which means that in 1996, he didn't suck. Since he didn't suck years after 1996, he couldn't have sucked then? Well Ric Flair had a streak of bad matches for a couple of years in the late 90s with WCW, yet once he showed up in WWE he has been kicking all kinds of ass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest BionicRedneck Report post Posted July 21, 2003 Vader sucked by 1996. In fact, I'm not sure if he ever was THAT good. Well, he smokes Shawn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Coffin Surfer Report post Posted July 21, 2003 Vadar/Inoki 1/4/96 is better than any match that Micheals ever had, and the whole match was a carry job by Vadar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest godthedog Report post Posted July 21, 2003 regarding the austin comment: yes, i was talking about making austin look like a legitimate threat, not like a better worker. As far as natural, God-given talent, I don't know if I've ever seen anyone better than Michaels. i think angle has more real talent than shawn did. Vader sucked by 1996. check out his canadian stampede match with undertaker. very good stuff, and vader's doing the carrying. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
